Submissions/Hold

What do you think about submissions or holds in ESF?

  • It's an excellent idea that should be in soon.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • It a good idea that should be in sometime in the future.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Only some of it is good/ Average idea

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • This idea should never be put in/ Bad idea

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • NEEDS MORE THINKING

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I don't care if it's put in or not

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
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Angle_Fire said:
I was just thinking. Frieza is able to breathe in out space right, well wouldn't he be able breathe under water? If so, the Submission would work even better for Frieza since he could stay under water while he's wraping someone with his tail who's also having trouble breathing.
It would be useful in that 2% chance that you actually end up in a map with water and fight in it, but we have other things we would rather implement...
 
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ok ok, you have many points that have to be resolved. IN REPLY TO PCJOE:

1/2) You will only get double teammed if your off guard. As I mentioned before, if someone attempts to hold you and missis, there will be a pause. A smart person would teleport out of the way, then melee the guy that was trying to grab him while he still can't move. And with the new after image, this would look even cooler cause you think you got the guy but really you got air. Anyways, then the person would be stunned, he can then concentrate on the other guy that was chasing him. Of course being double teammed is not fun most of the time, but when you get the chance to double someone it's fun for you. Also some people acually enjoy the challenge though. I could think of many situations of how I escaped or defeated a double team on me.

3) I said double teamming wouldn't occur much in free for all. But solo submissions which is really the main topic of my suggestion, would occur enough times. Yes submissions will give you an opening from beams, but you'd be able to let go of the person any time you wish and block or retreat if you have to. Submissions are useful because you wouldn't need to charge it up like a combo. Putting somone in a submission will make you vulnerable to attacks as much as doing a combo on somone. The attack will only do little damage if your weaker than the guy. The bigger the differance in power level, the more pl the weaker guy gets. Isn't that how the game is already?

4) Double teamming is unavoidable in almost every multiplayer game. All you can do is think smart, and find a way out. With ESF theres many things you can do get out of messy situations. There's beam jumping, blocking, solar flair, gohan's shield, teleporting etc. What exactly is your point about double teamming? That it's going to get abused? Like for everything, the smart and skilled one will survive.

5) K you have a good point here . This is my way of how I see the easiest way submissions can be executed. Just like picollo's scatter balls, you press 2 twice to switch modes from scatter to normal. Well same thing here. The other mode will be used for submission. Right click would be used to swoop but doesn't knock somone up close. And left click would be used to perform the hold. That's as simple as I can think of. If anyone has a better idea, well speak up then.

Basically, most of your concerns were about the the double team. I certainly can't speak for everyone but, teamming up is part of the game that we have to accept. Those who stick together win together unless they're up against a skilled one.

If there's still any concerns, speak up so we can fix it or see if there's a way around that problem.
 
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The ability to double team is one of the main reason I love this idea. I wouldn't mind if 2 people tried to work together to get freebee shots on me. I say if they manage to do it on me, I deserve it. I 2 enjoy the challenge. That's just my opinion.
 
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Great suggestion. I can see many useful things with this idea.

1. Opponent doesn't need to be stunned
2. You don't need to charge it
3. You can stop anytime
4. If you have a teammate, you can work together to beat someone.

I hate it when people whine about how they are being teamed up on. Maybe I would, if everyone in the server was just getting me and only me. But I want to promote teamplay as much ways as possible.
 
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damn ... you didn't really get the point ...

this IS almost exactly like autopunching ...

1. hold enemy so both can't move freely
2. damaging him and gain PL
3. damage based on PL
4. you can be attacked by others

no tell me a technical difference !!!
as I said ... it's the same ... it's just a [size=+2]VISUAL[/size] difference ...
 
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No it isn't Nretep, look outside the box. Submissions could be a technique that you use to take out someone that you know how a painfully low amount of ki. During the submission struggle you could both lose energy similarly to a PS but because the submission wouldn't last as long as a PS you wouldn't have to worry about Saiyans grabbing and holding people at full health until their ki runs out and they die. It would be quick and brutal, and it would go straight for the ki pool instead of health.

Meh, I'll post more later, gotta go now.
 
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Its a well thought out suggestion and i like it;). And how bout insted of just letting them go when your done with them you throw them for a lil more damage
 
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I think this is where your are getting confused Nretep about auto punching.

1. Auto punching is punching somone automatically when your up close. You don't hold the person. Makes sense, you can't hold a person and punch him at the same time. This also means that that the enemy can move around, charge a beam block ect. while your punching him. If you put someone in a submission, you enemy can't do any of those things.

2/3/4.That's oviously the same. You gain pl if you damage him. You can stop anytime. You can be attacked by others.

But the main difference is, you are hurting someone and they can't fight back until they escape or bang u against an object. That's a BIG difference. Also submissions allow double teamming possible.

edit: Oh and Sonic, that's acually a better idea now that i really think of it. My original suggestion was the person being held gains ki. But then again, this isn't logical right. You don't gain ki if somone is holding you. So both of you should lose ki, but the person being held should lose ki faster. But when you keep pressing mouse 1 and 2, that makes the person doing the submission lose ki a bit faster. Also crushing the guy holding you against a wall reduces his ki as well. Since this is now changed, if the person that's being held loses all his ki, the person doing the hold will now have 2 choices.

1. The person doing the hold will be able to fly around still carrying him and crash into something. But he only has a limited amount of time around 8 seconds.

2. While your carrying him around, instead of crashing, you can chose to let go put both your hands together and smack/hammer his back causing him to land hard on the floor. It can be a bit different for each character.

This would also add a lot more use to submissions.
 
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Wow, This idea is great! Allthough it would suck being double-teamed, but there are a few ways to balance it.
#1 Make the person executing the subbmission burn a significant amount of ki at a steady rate.
#2 Allow the Victim of the submission to break free (power/blockstruggle style)
#3 can only be performed from behind

Now, that makes it pretty fair, don't you think? If you swoop someone from behind, you should be given a choice to either just smack them really hard, or put them in a hold. If there happens to be someone around in the time you have them in a hold, booyah, they get a free few hits. However if you still think this is too unbalanced... then don't make the hold do any damage, or a very small amount, so it would only be useful when there is someone else around to help, which would encourage more teamwork and strategy in the game ( which i beleive is it's Only weak point as of now).

As farago said, the victim is not the only one that is vulnerable to attack, the actual person doing the hold is just as vulnerable, encouraging yet more teamwork! Excellent Idea man, i give it a 10/10. :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:
 
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you know what they say...
one picture worth 1000 words
Guess what they say about animated gif,
oh well...
 
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Phatslugga, don't worry those suggestions of yours arn't a problem

1) I already said the person that's doing a the submission will burn ki, but it won't be that fast. You'll see why for number 2.
2) You don't really need a struggle, it will complicate things. The enemy will break free once he loses all his ki. He may only be losing a bit of ki per second, but it can be increased if the person being held keeps pressing mouse 1 or 2. Also when the enemies ki is low enough, You can start smashing him against a wall while he's holding you.
3) I'm pretty sure I mentioned that it can only be performed from behind.

The amount of damage on the submission is based on the pl difference like any other attack.

About being only hurt by melee and not by beams, it could be like how it is for the ps. I think it goes, if your hit by another beam while your in a ps, the damage is reduced. But I'm not sure if doing that would make the game fair or make it unfair. They could make it like the damage is slipt in half between the person being held and the person doing the submission.
 
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This is a great idea. I would love to see it implemented in the game.
 
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i got an idea, when you go into a submission a struggle bar appears, it starts halfway, and the person with the hold on them takes X damage a second. if the submiser(person holding) wins the struggle, then he kicks/punches/throws the other player just like the current melee. If the submisee wins the struggle, the they throw the other player off and they are stunned with enough time to turn around and melee them. Also the submiser should lose ki at a faster rate than the submisee.
 
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yeah farago, the esf team with never implicate any gameplay that involves pressing a button repeatedly due to script hacking
 
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its a great idea... the hole holding thing!
I cant help it... must unleash the fury of another picture...

they'r pretty huge both of them
especially the more related ontopic one - gotenks and buu thingy thing
if you cant wait till it finishes DLing the GIFs then DL them yourself with dap or something...

<a href="http://members.lycos.co.uk/Miki801/ESFSTUFF/Holding+Throwing-Gotenks_SuperBuu.gif">Buu Holds+Throws ( - in Submission style - ) Gotenks!</a> - more related ontopic...
<a href="http://members.lycos.co.uk/Miki801/ESFSTUFF/Holding+Throwing2-Cell2_SuperVegeta.gif">Vegeta Throwing Cell</a> - less related - maybe to improove Meelee that way

put those in a waiting list on the dap thingy thing
 
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konstantine77, pressing Mouse 1 or 2 quickly to escape doesn't have to be that fast. I mean you only do about 1 hit per second. So somone who has a script that makes him click very fast every second will still only accomplish as much as that person that presses it once per second. So getting script for this is not worth the trouble.
 
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Id rather there be a struggle involed as that would be more realistic... and If you have a lot of ki, then it would be possible to hold them until they die. Plus... why wouldn't you be able to struggle? That makes no sense, I'm not going to sit there and let them hold me without struggling.

I was really just supporting youyr argument, not pointing out things you missed ;).
 
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My way is pretty much a struggle already. You race on trying to get your opponents ki to 0 to first. A struggle like the ps and bs wouldn't be fair for the weak people who will have a low chance of winning. Although I do see the PRO side of doing a submission struggle like that. But if the struggle was like that, my idea of being able smash the guy holding you will not work. Perhaps if you could fully explain how you want the struggle to work. But ass long as it has the following things.

1. If Person doing the submission wins, he can choose to continue holding him crash into something or hammer him down.
2. Person being held can fight back by trying to compress the person holding him against something or he could try to elbow or kick or something.
 

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