Sensu Beans, the Definitive Guide

[WolfWings]

This short thread is meant to end, once and for all, the question of 'where the hell are the sensu beans?!?' that keeps popping up occasionally.

Yes, I know Beta 1.1 is coming up before too much longer (hopefully) but in the meantime, here's where the Sensu are for Riverside and Lavapit. There are sensu on geoarena, but they're not in an area that a screenshot or anything else would help you locate them, as they're somewhat scattered over the map and the map is too symetric.

 

[imported_phrack50]

thankyou, I cannot understand why I never found them......

 

[RaVe]

because of model clipping probs

The sensu bags actualy cut into the ground,really weird.

 

[SSFT]

Thanks a lot man, was wondering where they were, although I could occasionally find one, Wish there were some on cell day and cell night, those are the best maps imho

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

...why? I mean I understand that you believe you are providing a service to players who can't find the sensu beans, but if they can't find them, they really didn't earn them, did they? ::sigh:: Now I guess I'll have to knock those new players around 3 times as long to finally put them in the ground. I'd suggest you delete it, but I don't feel like dealing with it, so have fun.

 

[WolfWings]

Originally posted by Sonic Boyster
...why? I mean I understand that you believe you are providing a service to players who can't find the sensu beans, but if they can't find them, they really didn't earn them, did they? ::sigh:: Now I guess I'll have to knock those new players around 3 times as long to finally put them in the ground. I'd suggest you delete it, but I don't feel like dealing with it, so have fun.

Why the hell would I axe an informative thread that permenantly ends a disputed question that often comes up in the forums? What gives you or anyone else the right to hoard information about the locations of highly powerful items that are integral to the game from anyone until they pass some vague criteria to 'earn' the information? This is a purely elitist attitude, and does nothing but drive new players away from the game and to a lesser extent the forums.

Why the heck should information about an insanely powerful item in the game be hidden from people like it was an exploit Devil would use? And yes, they are insanely powerful. Instant full healing and energy on tap, 3 per bag, limit 5 carried. It's like beating someone with the invincibility and quad damage that's hidden in the roof of one of Quake2's deathmatch maps versus someone that doesn't even know that's up there, but that is otherwise a good player and knows how to rocket-jump and could easilly get the items if they knew they were up there.

You didn't win on skill, you won on knowing a 'secret' about a level, nothing more. Sensu beans are not supposed to be an invisible item that you can 'bump into' and pick up on accident, but due to a glitch they are.

In short, don't expect this thread to be deleted, baaaleted, removed, or anything else unless a Forum Moderator or similair does so, and had better do so with a reasonable explanation sent my way or I'll simply rephrase it and post it somewhere else, outside of the forums if needbe, that I can direct people to. Nor should you expect it to quietly fade away as it's an important bit of information that drastically levels the playing field, no longer giving anyone a massive advantage over anyone else.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

Well no need to go crazy about it, but I may as well rebuke your argument.


You introduce sensu beans as though they were not exploitable. You use the point that I am treating them as though they were "an exploit that Devil would use." Well, for your information, yes they are. Someone like Devil, who wishes no more than to abuse the playing field and bring frustration to others would undoubtably camp the sensu beans to render himself nearly imortal. Now, realizing that this is in Devil's server crashing-ball park: Are you willing to stand up and say that if everyone who played ESF had equal knowledge of how to overflow servers full of people the rate at which servers are being overflowed would decrease? Do you honestly believe that Devil would stop doing it if everyone knew how, and that no one else would attempt it? If that is the case, then I would beg to differ.

Some things are better left untold. If a small number of people know how to exploit a system (alla overflow), but only a small fraction of them actually make use of it (Devil), the problem can be reasonably contained. Such is the way of the sensu bean pre-this post. Probably around a quarter of the community are likely to have known where all or many of the sensu beans were, but only a fraction of them actually went for the beans. If one person on a given server is using the sensu beans, you can focus your on that person or ignore him altogether; the rest of them don't, so they cannot abuse the sensu beans. If 3 people have sensu beans at the same time (which is more likely than it sounds, as people who collect them live longer in the mean time), you have a really annoying competition of spam on your hands, as melee wont be able to put any of them down. Now why would four people have sensu beans at a time now?

Let's have fun with numbers. Say around 25% of the community knows where to find the sensu beans on Geo Arena. Say only 20% (1/5) of this 25% (5%) actually abused the sensu beans to draw out battles and grant themselves a higher score. If this 20% of the ESF players who know where to locate the sensu beans (initially 5% of the cummity) remains consistent, then let's change it around. Say after this post has been up for a long enough period of time, now 75% of the community knows where to locate them. 20% of 75% is 15% (Not as confusing as it sounds). 15% of the total community, including players who do not know where the sensu beans are, will now commence with abusing the sensu beans. The ratio of fair players to unfair players has remained constant over the influx of information, but as the number of fair players increase, so must the unfair players to compensate (assuming the relationship remains balanced). Now, statistically, if I were to log onto an official server playing Geo-Arena, that server is 3x more likely to have any given number of sensu bean abusers playing at the same time (5% to 15%). Now how is having 3 sensu bean abusers on any given server better than 1? Has the playing field been leveled, or will there now simply be competition over who gets to play invincible for the next 5 minutes? I believe the latter, and that's why I'm against it.

This isn't totally "elitest" either. Part of the fun of frequenting the maps is locating its secrets. The only secrets on any of the given maps right now are the locations of the sensu beans, and I don't see how stripping the fun out of locating them supports the fresher members of the community.

See, I didn't want to deal with this, but now that I've woken up a little I'm angry. Perhaps grumpy; perhaps rightfully so. Rebuttle if you wish, I'll be right here.

 

[Vertigo]

there are two pieces of wisdom that have helpt me:

1: never tell everything you know

have a nice day

now that every one knows where to get the beans it will now be who can camp the beans the most, but i guess i will have to take goku more often so that i can use the nuke-kame to kill all those hard to kill newbs that know where the beans are. Acutally i just realized this could work in my favor, since people will now just camp the beans that means that they will be in a tight cluster of people more vulnerable to a death ball, final flash, big bang, kame-ha...

 

[Xenogias]

I knew someone would do this.
You shouldn't have spoiled the Sensu Bean locations.
People should just find them for themselves. A way to do this
is to fly way up high on the map. And look down at the ground.
If you see a black object through the ground in and then try
to get close to it up it disapears... then thats a sensu bean.

Only places I know locations of sensu beans are:

esf_mtside
esf_riverside
esf_lavapit
esf_geoarena

I dont think their are any on esf_city and esf_rosat so dont
bother searching. And that list just covers up for the official
maps. Im not listing where the ones of the unofficial maps are
cause its not necessary.

 

[Brim]

Wow I can't believe you guys are getting mad about this, who cares if they now know, its a game, it isnt exactly fair for those who knew where the sensus were to have them and for those who dont to not. Anyways very few people abuse sensus, quite frankly I never even think to get them when I am on those maps...and furthermore if you dont want to have "noobs" abuse them dont play the maps.

 

[SSFT]

Think of it this way, most the people who play esf dont frequent the forums, and who would abuse sensus? sonic you really are going overboard, it is just a game, the sensus arent susposed to be secret.
If they do abuse, blast them, most signature moves kill in 1 hit, just pick a strong character. Only n00bs would really abuse sensus, so you should be better than them anyways, so just beat them down whenever they try. Beans are part of the game and everyone should know about them, and he never told where they were on geo arena, just on 2 maps that are hardly played, get a grip. Even though I know where they are, and even if I pick them up, I still never use them. Whats the point? you get stronger when you die, and prolonging your death gives them power with every hit.

 

[WolfWings]

First off, I'm not even going to try to go through your numbers to refute those. Numbers can be changed around and tweaked to sound reasonable or unreasonable, though I will say your numbers are quite reasonable estimates after going over them briefly. Also, I appologize for my delay in responding, I'm at work so I was away from the terminal working on some phone wiring for a while. I'll respond as I'm able to since this is now a reasonable debate, which has a reasonable chance of changing my mind on this thread while the no-explanation 'this is bad, delete it please' had zero chance.

What I disagree with is that only a small fraction of people knew where the Sensu were or abused them. The last several times I've played ESF, I find one or more people that just never die, that I can catch and parry and reflect ten, fifteen, twenty, or even more times and they simply never get killed. No, I'm not a hyper-agressive teleport-monkey so I know they have time to do a very simple thing. They're using the Sensu. That's annoying to have more overall skill at dealing with their attacks than they have in dealing with mine, but since they knew a very simple bit of locational information, where the Sensu are, they're winning every battle. Sometimes on the occasion where they hit me with Melee instead, they'll teleport over to me and use a Sensu specifically to 'rub it in' then teleport way away, and likely use another I'd guess. That gets annoying.

And your comparison of the Sensu to the overflow Devil is using is one I don't personally believe is a valid comparison. I said that they're not equal, as an exploit is something that breaks the game for others, be it by resetting the server due to a crash, or resetting everyone but the server like the overflow. Right now having the Sensu is no better or worse than having skill with one-hit-kill attacks, be they high-powered beam-sniping, discs, or long-distance laser sniping. Yes, they slow the deaths down, but that's a good thing to me as dying less often means power levels reflect skill more since it avoid the PL-adjustment-on-death that's becoming a server CVAR in the next version.

As a quick note to the 'how to find the Sensu' method mentioned above, I simply replaced the model with one with that huge freaking arrow over it, and took screenshots. The model doesn't work on-line since I always play with Cheating-Death, but for local 'listen' server usage it works just fine.

As for 'fun factor' from finding secrets in maps, that's fine. But if that secret makes you neigh-invincible for a minute or two, that's a little unbalancing. Again, let's go back to the Quake-2 deathmatch map (Frag Pipe) that has the Quad Damage, Yellow Armor, Invincibility, and four large medkits in a nook in the roof that's a very easy rocket-jump but also perfectly pitch-black with zero lighting in it at all in the small side-nook overlooking the frag pipe on the side with the yellow armor below the other quad damage at the end of the tram. Someone that knows that secret has a MASSIVE advantage over anyone else, simply because they looked at the map in a non-standard way most likely to find the secrets. A secret that's purely amusing, like a hidden picture somewhere that you can see if you poke your head through a noclip wall is one thing. A hidden cache of powerful items is unbalancing unless everyone knows about it. Trying to 'contain' it only makes a seperation between the 'haves' and the 'have nots' that I've seen, and makes the 'have nots' that lack the technical know-how and understanding of the game engine to find the secrets have a disadvantage. If it was a 'hidden' disadvantage, that's one thing, like there being a spot on a map that lets you ramp+rocket jump to get to a powerup in one jump instead of the usual two jump-pads as one example from Q3A's Q3DM17. That's purely a matter of skill letting you use the physics and game engine to your advantage.

Something that takes pure technical knowledge of the game engine to find and use though, like the sensu beans, causes that rift though, as it's not something you can pick up from playing the game. You can see someone use the shortcut though and realize it's there both to defend against and learn to use yourself, but a hidden secret cache of power isn't something that can often be learnt about except by knowing specifically to search for it. It's a bit like playing Civilization and having nuclear bombs be available too early, if you know to use the hotkey to request to build them before the menu shows them as being available. Publishing this information puts everyone on level ground, either to watch for it or use it themselves depending on the local rules, until a patch to fix it is released.

Hell, it can be as simple as banning use of nuclear bombs until the patch comes out, just like Sensu Beans can be disabled if they're such an 'exploit' in your eyes. If they're so bad, why do servers leave them enabled at all then, praytell? To invite people to find and exploit them?

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

Originally posted by WolfWings

What I disagree with is that only a small fraction of people knew where the Sensu were or abused them. The last several times I've played ESF, I find one or more people that just never die, that I can catch and parry and reflect ten, fifteen, twenty, or even more times and they simply never get killed. No, I'm not a hyper-agressive teleport-monkey so I know they have time to do a very simple thing. They're using the Sensu. That's annoying to have more overall skill at dealing with their attacks than they have in dealing with mine, but since they knew a very simple bit of locational information, where the Sensu are, they're winning every battle. Sometimes on the occasion where they hit me with Melee instead, they'll teleport over to me and use a Sensu specifically to 'rub it in' then teleport way away, and likely use another I'd guess. That gets annoying.

I'm not really sure where you were going with this. I believe you admitted that sensu beans were an unfair advantage, and you get tired of running into people who have them. Would it not make more sense to limit the number of people who have knowledge as to where the beans are then?

And your comparison of the Sensu to the overflow Devil is using is one I don't personally believe is a valid comparison. I said that they're not equal, as an exploit is something that breaks the game for others, be it by resetting the server due to a crash, or resetting everyone but the server like the overflow. Right now having the Sensu is no better or worse than having skill with one-hit-kill attacks, be they high-powered beam-sniping, discs, or long-distance laser sniping. Yes, they slow the deaths down, but that's a good thing to me as dying less often means power levels reflect skill more since it avoid the PL-adjustment-on-death that's becoming a server CVAR in the next version.

9 out of 10 times when you hold down block a fully charged kamehameha wont kill you, even if it detonates fairly close to you. This is assuming a number of factors such as nearly equal power levels and whatnot, but it isn't all that hard to escape instant death from a beam. If a beam doesn't finish you off, just like a continous stream of merciless smashes, you can always use a sensu bean. If you know how to use them, and you have more than 1 of them, you can seriously frustrate other players and make yourself nearly invincible. Usually as long as you know who this player is you can catch him from behind or team up with somebody to finish him off, but if everybody knows where the beans are, you can never tell who is at what health when you are hitting them. Maybe they have beans, maybe they started at full health. Maybe it's frustrating to have to rely on spam, as some of us disdain it.

As for 'fun factor' from finding secrets in maps, that's fine. But if that secret makes you neigh-invincible for a minute or two, that's a little unbalancing. Again, let's go back to the Quake-2 deathmatch map (Frag Pipe) that has the Quad Damage, Yellow Armor, Invincibility, and four large medkits in a nook in the roof that's a very easy rocket-jump but also perfectly pitch-black with zero lighting in it at all in the small side-nook overlooking the frag pipe on the side with the yellow armor below the other quad damage at the end of the tram. Someone that knows that secret has a MASSIVE advantage over anyone else, simply because they looked at the map in a non-standard way most likely to find the secrets. A secret that's purely amusing, like a hidden picture somewhere that you can see if you poke your head through a noclip wall is one thing. A hidden cache of powerful items is unbalancing unless everyone knows about it. Trying to 'contain' it only makes a seperation between the 'haves' and the 'have nots' that I've seen, and makes the 'have nots' that lack the technical know-how and understanding of the game engine to find the secrets have a disadvantage. If it was a 'hidden' disadvantage, that's one thing, like there being a spot on a map that lets you ramp+rocket jump to get to a powerup in one jump instead of the usual two jump-pads as one example from Q3A's Q3DM17. That's purely a matter of skill letting you use the physics and game engine to your advantage.

So you believe that their finding it does not say they they've earned it? If new players would take more time to explore the work put into each of the maps by their respective creators they would have seen the obvious sensu bean placements. Your guide simply provides those too lazy to search for or ask about the locations of the sensu beans with a new area on the map to camp with beams. I disagree with giving people such valuable information when they could have gone looking for it on their own. It may be unbalancing for one person to get all of the power ups when no one else knows where they are, but at least the opposing team can zero in on that person. I find it more worth-while to have only a single nearly invincible opponent than having to worry about who won over the fight for the sensu beans this time.

Something that takes pure technical knowledge of the game engine to find and use though, like the sensu beans, causes that rift though, as it's not something you can pick up from playing the game. You can see someone use the shortcut though and realize it's there both to defend against and learn to use yourself, but a hidden secret cache of power isn't something that can often be learnt about except by knowing specifically to search for it. It's a bit like playing Civilization and having nuclear bombs be available too early, if you know to use the hotkey to request to build them before the menu shows them as being available. Publishing this information puts everyone on level ground, either to watch for it or use it themselves depending on the local rules, until a patch to fix it is released.

Every response to the sensu question from moderators or players before this one was to go searching. The players who ask are already told which maps to search, and they could have taken the time and energy out of 5 minutes to go searching for it. The fact that they chose not to does not earn them this thread. It is common knowledge that the sensu beans are *hidden* on those maps. It should not be common knowledge as to where they are.

Hell, it can be as simple as banning use of nuclear bombs until the patch comes out, just like Sensu Beans can be disabled if they're such an 'exploit' in your eyes. If they're so bad, why do servers leave them enabled at all then, praytell? To invite people to find and exploit them?

You can disable them? I didn't know this. I haven't seen the option, but maybe I haven't been looking. Either way, sensu beans are designed to be "exploited." In fact, you can't use one without "exploiting" it, as it completely refills your energy and your health bar. I don't understand where you are coming from when you tell me that 8 people swooping after the beans is more justifiable than 1. Someone will still come out triumphant, and then they will have that advantage. The difference is you wont know who it is. Someone will typically have the upper hand and get them most of the time anyway. People who already have sensu beans have an easier time getting additional sensu beans as well, as they can detonate beams close to themself without worrying about death. Somebody will always come out on top, and having a server full of people competing over the sensu beans will get in the way of combat between individuals. It will break down to whoever can break away from melee and get the beans first. I just don't want that to happen any more often than it already does.

P.S.: Sorry for breaking it up into quotes like this. I usually don't like them, but at the moment I'm too tired to read it all and try to respond to each point.

 

[Morrone]

Sensu beans are hidden for a reason. If the team wanted you ti have them automatically they'd have piles of them at both spawn points so everytime you spawn you get 3. If you can not see by yourself what a foolish mistake you just made, then you never will.

 

[Xenogias]

The reason why im against this thread is because
If everyone had a Sensu Bean. Battle woulds probably last for like 30mins straight or untill the
map changes. It can be abusive and I've fought people that have used sensu beans before.
It makes me want to charge a kamehameha and throw it right in their face.

 

[GhostfaceKillah]

Uhhh, having everyone know about where the sensu beans wouldn't make it unfair, only you knowing about the where they are would be unfair.

 

[Xenogias]

Because I know where the Sensu's are doesn't mean im going to go
and pick one up. The only time I used Sensu beans was either in a lan game.
Or when I was fighting Nightshades cause he kept using them. I just wanted to even
the score with him because on esf_riverside thats the first thing he goes after before
he starts swearing he can beat me.

 

[[J]]

YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO FIND THEM EASILY!!!! who cares

 

[WolfWings]

Originally posted by Sonic Boyster
I'm not really sure where you were going with this. I believe you admitted that sensu beans were an unfair advantage, and you get tired of running into people who have them. Would it not make more sense to limit the number of people who have knowledge as to where the beans are then?

Where I was going with this is that trying to 'contain' the knowledge of where the Sensu Beans are has been shown to be useless, and unbalancing in itself because those that know where the Sensu Beans are is already a markedly large number if there's almost always at least one player on any given server now that knows, well before I even considered, let alone made this thread.

What I was getting tired of was there always being one person on the server with 0-5 deaths versus 50 or 60 kills that was subsisting entirely on Sensu Beans, occasionally getting tagged by a Disc or a pair of large-power blasts at the same time. Then I realized the easiest way to make it so the one person doesn't have this advantage is to spread out the 'advantage' to one everyone has, effectively spreading out Sensu to every player instead of letting one player horde them constantly.

Originally posted by Sonic Boyster
9 out of 10 times when you hold down block a fully charged kamehameha wont kill you, even if it detonates fairly close to you. This is assuming a number of factors such as nearly equal power levels and whatnot, but it isn't all that hard to escape instant death from a beam. If a beam doesn't finish you off, just like a continous stream of merciless smashes, you can always use a sensu bean. If you know how to use them, and you have more than 1 of them, you can seriously frustrate other players and make yourself nearly invincible. Usually as long as you know who this player is you can catch him from behind or team up with somebody to finish him off, but if everybody knows where the beans are, you can never tell who is at what health when you are hitting them. Maybe they have beans, maybe they started at full health. Maybe it's frustrating to have to rely on spam, as some of us disdain it.

Yes, it's quite easy to block a Kamehameha, but at the same time what if the other player detonates it instead? Yes, if you have a Sensu Bean and have only 11 health you're back up to full, but they still effectively removed your advantage, or noticably reduced it by making you use one of the Sensu with a single shot of their own. And you still gained the power increase from the shot hitting them. There's no way currently to tell what 'health' someone is at, and I don't see Sensu Beans changing that at all.

And last I checked Detonated shots always did full damage in my experience, blocked or not even if looking right at or right away from the point of detonation.

Originally posted by Sonic Boyster
So you believe that their finding it does not say they they've earned it? If new players would take more time to explore the work put into each of the maps by their respective creators they would have seen the obvious sensu bean placements. Your guide simply provides those too lazy to search for or ask about the locations of the sensu beans with a new area on the map to camp with beams. I disagree with giving people such valuable information when they could have gone looking for it on their own. It may be unbalancing for one person to get all of the power ups when no one else knows where they are, but at least the opposing team can zero in on that person. I find it more worth-while to have only a single nearly invincible opponent than having to worry about who won over the fight for the sensu beans this time.

The problem with 'looking' for the Sensu Beans, is unless you know to use the third-person bug with the sky-box to remove the world from being drawn, or a similair console command and how to start your own server, you can't find this information out. Having (relatively) extensive technical knowledge of the game engine is not tied to having an extensive skillset inside the game. Yes, they commonly go hand in hand, but not all good players would know to use the skybox-camera bug (which is what it is, a bug, since they're trying to fix it in the next version) to find the Sensu Beans. A manual search isn't viable either due to the clipping bug (yes, another bug) with the Sensu Beans.

And again, if they end up tending to camp near the Sensu, a pair of players can still take out everyone 'clustered' in that area just as easilly as one person. Use some skills to link a pair of your own beams into one mega-beam (since you can already PS with your own team) and launch it towards where the Sensu are. Bigger boom, Sensu Beam area cleared, likely a bag randomly dropped on the ground where my 'guide' no longer helps.

Originally posted by Sonic Boyster
Every response to the sensu question from moderators or players before this one was to go searching. The players who ask are already told which maps to search, and they could have taken the time and energy out of 5 minutes to go searching for it. The fact that they chose not to does not earn them this thread. It is common knowledge that the sensu beans are *hidden* on those maps. It should not be common knowledge as to where they are.

They're already told which maps and where. It's still a matter for many of them to randomly fly around until 'hey, I got a bag!' randomly pops up. Map knowledge should not override skill. This is a basic rule of mapping for multiplayer maps. Yes, maps can give advantagous positions, but no 'secret' trick of the map should give a marked and unfair advantage over everyone that doesn't know that trick, this according to commonly-accepted mapping and gaming practices since Doom came out.

And something not being 'common knowledge' is impossible. The maps are static, they never change from one round to another. The knowledge will do nothing but spread, making it common knowledge eventually no matter what you do. My disagreement is with hiding the Sensu Beans from anyone that doesn't (A) know where to look already, and (B) know how to look for and find them already.

Originally posted by Sonic Boyster
You can disable them? I didn't know this. I haven't seen the option, but maybe I haven't been looking. Either way, sensu beans are designed to be "exploited." In fact, you can't use one without "exploiting" it, as it completely refills your energy and your health bar. I don't understand where you are coming from when you tell me that 8 people swooping after the beans is more justifiable than 1. Someone will still come out triumphant, and then they will have that advantage. The difference is you wont know who it is. Someone will typically have the upper hand and get them most of the time anyway. People who already have sensu beans have an easier time getting additional sensu beans as well, as they can detonate beams close to themself without worrying about death. Somebody will always come out on top, and having a server full of people competing over the sensu beans will get in the way of combat between individuals. It will break down to whoever can break away from melee and get the beans first. I just don't want that to happen any more often than it already does.

Yes, Sensu Beans can be disabled on the server, quite easilly in fact with a CVar according to the manual, or failing that with AdminMod or other sorts of plugins to remove them from the map entirely.

And there is no fundamental difference between one player swooping after the beans and eight, that I can see. There's already almost always one person on any given server with more than 4 players that knows where the Sensu are, and is using them. It (swooping out of combat for Sensu) already happens quite a lot of the time in my experience, it's passed the 'threshold' point where it can be contained and hidden.

Where I'm 'coming from' is that there's no way to 'contain' the knowledge as a larger portion of the players that I think you realize already knows about it. These screenshots were taken months ago when I first started playing the game, but I saw that most people didn't know where they were at first and rarely did they come into play on servers. Now web-pages are set up that host similair screenshots that small groups of players pass around in secret, I've found a couple short-lived URL's before that people chatted out on servers in global chat. The information here is being passed around 'under the table' already, and so are replacement models that are far more glaring than my simple pointer-arrows in fact, which I didn't link to so players still have to 'check' if the Sensu are there manually, they can't glance over and go 'Hey, Sensu!' instantly.

Originally posted by Sonic Boyster
P.S.: Sorry for breaking it up into quotes like this. I usually don't like them, but at the moment I'm too tired to read it all and try to respond to each point.

S'okay, I hope you don't mind my using Quotes as well. If you want I'll avoid using them entirely any further for your convenience.

As a small note, I'm about to head home from work (Pasadena->Garden Grove), so for the time being I will remove the images until we can finish this discussion in about one-two hours.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Personally, I dont care.... I use Buu most of the time so... I dont have Sensu Beans. If one person and only one had knowledge of the beans in a server, they would have a big advantage over others... would they not? Yet if all players knew where the beans were, wouldnt the game become merely a search for the beans based game? Just like CTDB... it would now become CTSB.... This would be meaningless....

Both Sonic and Wolf have good points.... yet I dont know who to agree with.... If everyone had beans, then battles would be prolonged.... yet if only ONE person had beans, he would have a great advantage over others. If noone had beans, then i would be happy