Milestones in gaming

[Jariroth]

i haven't played san andreas so i can't really comment on it, the main problem i see is that i'm pretty sure its focus isn't on the explorative puzzle solving, just because it has a little doesn't make it an rpg. Also the inventory managment also doesn't seem like much of a focus. The definition i'm using was given to me from someone in the industry and who constantly keeps in contact with others in the gaming industry to make sure his class is current and relevant. What's your definition of an rpg and why doesn't zelda fit into it? What about secret of mana? is that considered an RPG to you?

I havent really played Secret of mana. My specification of an RPG is a bit hard to explain. Its a game where you take the role of a certain character and makes his choices and do his training. Constant character growth is the necessary element of RPG, the feeling of superiority when your level is high and you kick down worthless enemies.
You cannot achieve that in Zelda, because your growth only relies on powerups that are needed to advance in game. So basically you cannot really prepare for the next boss monster by training your role character better, because you cannot really improve him at all, only thing that helps you is getting better at playing the game yourself. (No improvement from the role-playable character itself...)

 

[Ness]

and crackdown, and just cause, and hte hulk, and the spiderman games, and saints row, and dead rising(arguably), simpsons hit and run, and probably more that i can't think of.

i meant with the whole crime scenario

 

[tolore]

i meant with the whole crime scenario

but thats not why it was revolutionary, it was revolutionary because of its gameplay, not because of its setting. saying theres only a few games that take after it in the setting department doens' tshow that it wasn't revolutionary at all.

as for zelda. Just because link doens't leel up and get +5 strength the games not an rpg? As you prgoress through the game you do get more powerful by picking up equipment and items(as well as learning new techniques in some of the later games). He may not level up and get bonus's to stats, but there are ways to upgrade his equpiment, better bombbags, upgraded boomerang, the sword. When i'm using the master sword and the red boomerang i do indeed kick down the worlthless old enemies. Anyway my arguement is that there are more ways to powerup a character than 'welcome to level 5, +2 strenght!'. Link does the same thing just through equipment and magic(and even statistical bonuses for magic and health) instaead of visable numbers and experience points.

 

[Jariroth]

but thats not why it was revolutionary, it was revolutionary because of its gameplay, not because of its setting. saying theres only a few games that take after it in the setting department doens' tshow that it wasn't revolutionary at all.

...as for zelda. Just because link doens't leel up and get +5 strength the games not an rpg? As you prgoress through the game you do get more powerful by picking up equipment and items(as well as learning new techniques in some of the later games)

Thats not the same, you cant "level up" whenever you want to, you can only get these "power-up" items later in the game where you are supposed to get them.
When playing Final fantasy for example you could probably train your character to level 50 before the first boss monster.
While in Zelda your strenght is depended on how far you have progressed in the game. You cant get the master sword before the first boss monster, you can only get it when youre at certain point of the story...
This is of course only my opinion why levelling system is a necessary system for a rpg.

But because different people have their own opinions about RPG's and i dont want to be a jerk, i admit that i could be wrong.

 

[kam!]

Thats not the same, you cant "level up" whenever you want to, you can only get these "power-up" items later in the game where you are supposed to get them.
When playing Final fantasy for example you could probably train your character to level 50 before the first boss monster.
While in Zelda your strenght is depended on how far you have progressed in the game. You cant get the master sword before the first boss monster, you can only get it when youre at certain point of the story...
This is of course only my opinion why levelling system is a necessary system for a rpg.

But because different people have their own opinions about RPG's and i dont want to be a jerk, i admit that i could be wrong.

You can get stronger in Zelda before a boss fight if you collect some heartpieces or bottles.

 

[Jariroth]

Thats not really what i meant... Besides there is always a restricted number of bottles and heart pieces you can get until you get later in the game. You cant reach all the heart pieces without certain equipment you only get much later...

 

[tolore]

theres always a max level in other rpg's too. and while your equipment is limited to where you are its not entirely limited. I often have the level 3 sword and many advanced items before i fightthe first dark world boss.

 

[Vagabond]

Wing Commander 3 was a Milestone in gaming it brought story, plot and 3d game and Full Motion video to gaming.

Same with Elite since you had hundreds of star systems and wireframe modles all held on a 5 1/4" floppy disk in the 80's.

but the biggest Milestone was Fallout since it brought RPG in to the future and made it adult none of this goblin,elf stuff

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

Tribes 2 also deserves some credit. It was the first game where it was reasonably possible to have a multitude of players.

A shame that is was such a POS otherwise (support, etc). That game also made GREAT use of decals.