MechMod effects

[Ultimate 17]

I agree that gameplay > eye candy, especially when that candy is hindering the gameplay. I enjoy playing in OGL because its more customizable thru my gfx card's menu than D3D. I thought the water in MM was tacky. It doesn't even look like water. Reminds me of an old java applet "mirror" effect that you could display a picture from above and would reflect on the liquid metal surface below. In any case, ESF's gameplay has always been its stronghold-- the main reason why it has such a fan base and the replay value is probably higher than 90% of the HL mods out there. They shouldn't ruin that formula by throwing in some flashy effects just to make it look "cooler" to play. Not to mention 1.2 was a HUGE step forward in animations compared to 1.1. The beam explosions is a prime example of this. To me, it doesn't need to go past what they have already done. And I forget who mentioned that it should compete with the effects of DoD and CS, but I've played both those games extensively and I don't see anything spectacular about their animation gfx. Those games are popular for the same reason ESF is-- great game play, which is smooth and unhindered from effects that aren't fully stable (or neccessary :devgrin with the HL engine.

I get 120 constant fps in esf. In mechmod, I get 10 - 21. The hl engine can't handle the things mechmod does, its not peoples computers.

You're HL version must be on crack to pull 120 FPS. I always thought the cap was 100 :talk:

 

[Pcjoe]

Not to mention the person who coded in the effects isn't on the esf team.

Main reason we don't focus on graphics as much as mechmod does Jason is basically MM's graphical programmer, he lives and breathes fragment shaders.

To defend MM - Like Karot said, the HL1 version is just a warmup. It really has no replay value or real gameplay... It's just a basic mod with mechs and cool attacks, and I think that's okay for an alpha release. We have all of the cool shader effects because jason really enjoys gfx programming, he just does it in his free time.

I talked to PCJoe once about the glowing and he told me that it would not be in esf as your fps takes quite a hit when it is on.

*nods* Even if we had Jason, ESF doesn't really have the FPS to spare to be adding blurs / pretty water / etc etc.

I think the water is pretty impressive though - granted the limited access we have to the engine and the amount of hacking jason had to do to get it looking decent. He could have done it in 1/4th the time (and probably 10x better) if he was working on his own engine.

 

[Ultimate 17]

I want my own engine It would have esf 1.1 on it! V8 powered version!

Question for PCJoe. Did you guys implement the glow effects and the water effects in HL1's alpha version because the port is easily done over to HL2 and little to no change would need to be made to the MM's engine for these effects, or were they simply just "fun" things to add and you will have to completely redo the engine's graphic-side?

Also, do you plan on using the same water effect for your HL2 version, or will there be a more realistic-looking water effect? I'm not saying the water effect doesn't look cool, but it doesn't look like water. It looks like a community gathering of Terminator 2's melted down into a pool. I have not had the chance to play HL2, so I have not seen any water screenshots.

 

[Pcjoe]

Question for PCJoe. Did you guys implement the glow effects and the water effects in HL1's alpha version because the port is easily done over to HL2 and little to no change would need to be made to the MM's engine for these effects, or were they simply just "fun" things to add and you will have to completely redo the engine's graphic-side?

These effects would not port over to half-life 2, especially since HL2 uses d3d instead of opengl. Jason did them because he thought it was fun.

Also, do you plan on using the same water effect for your HL2 version, or will there be a more realistic-looking water effect? I'm not saying the water effect doesn't look cool, but it doesn't look like water. It looks like a community gathering of Terminator 2's melted down into a pool. I have not had the chance to play HL2, so I have not seen any water screenshots.

Half-life 2's water looks pretty damn sexy to me, no need to improve it

Quick note: The HL1 version is done. Once we release thel alpha 1.1 patch, we'll never touch the HL1 MM source again. We're not porting anything from HL1 MM to the HL2 version, we have a completly different plan layed out for the HL2 version.

 

[MajinVegeta Tim]

I dont want those 'effects' if you talk about 'Source' then read on...
I hate HL2 !!! it need a f***ed up super computer to play...

No you don not, my 1.8ghx amd 2800xp, 512mb, msi geforce5850 can run hl2 fine

i dont call that a super computer its like 3 yeard outdated

esf doesnt need nice water effects, water doesnt play any part in it and most esf maps dont have water in them!

 

[Ultimate 17]

Quick note: The HL1 version is done. Once we release thel alpha 1.1 patch, we'll never touch the HL1 MM source again. We're not porting anything from HL1 MM to the HL2 version, we have a completly different plan layed out for the HL2 version.

That is news to me. I figured you guys would have used some of the existing code, but to hear that you will be starting from scratch puts a smile on my face. Not that I didn't think the alpha version was bad, but I was hoping the HL2 would bring better gameplay and I didn't see that happening with your first HL2 release if you just ported from HL1. Thanks for the answers btw. Makes me feel better about the direction of your mod.

 

[Xsis]

Woot!? 100fpS?!
Yikes.. my comp can max handle 60.. even sometimes only 30.. but still playing ESF fine, can't see any difference.. either it's just the comp that is ****ed or else my eyes are. :S

 

[sub]

If you turn vysnc off, your fps can go above 100 (though I wouldn't recommend you turn it off) and if you type developer 1 in console, your fps can go above 100.

 

[Ultimate 17]

Can anyone confirm this? I thought the HL engine wasn't able to go beyond 100fps.

Sorry for the off-topic >_<

 

[sub]

http://www.uploadimages.net/show.php?img=498133esf_city0224.jpg

Screenshot of my fps over 100.

 

[ReCkOninG of FirE]

You don't need a super computer to play half life 2. I have an AMD Athlon 2500+ with 256megs of ram and a old geforce 4 440 with 4mb ram, i get 40-50 fps on 800/600 alot and it is possible because my hardware restricts it to dx7 effects.

I dont think esf's graphics need tweaking, game play is what matters, when you're in the middle of a fight, you concentrate at your opponent figuring out how to kill him, you don't go looking at the scenery. Gameplay ownz graphics.

 

[Ultimate 17]

Instead of making a more graphical map, make the radar more graphical! I used to play esf 1.1 using just my radar and still would pwn. Of course, that was with simple melee. Would never work with adv. >_<

 

[Emhilradim]

I dont want those 'effects' if you talk about 'Source' then read on...

No, not really, they're not so great... I mean, yeah, the radiosity is awesome, especially with the water... But, when you think about it... In Dragon Ball Z, they didn't even have transparent water (like ESF has). Their water was as opaque as it gets.

I hate HL2 !!! it need a f***ed up super computer to play...

That depends on what you define to be a "Super Computer." The requirements for HL2 are so low, that even low-mid computers can attain it. On the other hand... What would be gained by porting to HL2? Nothing. You can accomplish everything ESF needs with HL1.

Thats why i like ESF, they stick to the good old hl something we all know what is tHe bEsT !! HL1 owns all games : p

I disagree, that HL1 owns all games. But, yes, it's good that they stick to HL. Mind you, if you had the option of, going to a new engine, or keeping the work you've spent years on, and staying with the same engine, wouldn't you stick with the engine you use?

more people will play hl1 then hl2, i think.. but after 10 year hl1 is dead i think to... more games better computers... if hl2 still live ti that time xD

That's quite the time frame... It's 5 or 6 years since HL1 was released, and yes, people still play HL1. But then again, until now, HL1 was all they had offered to them. Chances are, in 4 years, we'll still be playing HL1, though.

i love ESF because they dont go to 'source'

Once again, I ask, would you scrap your current progress, or keep your work?

i have GeForce 2 so i like the old hl1 : p i can play source but i hate it...

You know, for only $35 US, you can buy a GeForce FX 5200... I've seen 5200s on Canadian sites for $50 CDN...

"HL Source Video graphic = BattleField 1942 Video graphic" it much the same :S

Not really. Half-Life 2 is superior to Battlefield, in terms of graphics. In many ways. Radiosity is just the dusting of the cake.

Stay to the good old hl1 thats my pray

Good call.

 

[Emhilradim]

I talked to PCJoe once about the glowing and he told me that it would not be in esf as your fps takes quite a hit when it is on. As for the water, I really do not like it the way MM has put it into the game and they could have done a better job with it. The water is also another effect that was not made for the hl engine and thus will cause lag because the engine struggles to do it, its like towing a 2 ton trailer with a pinto...

I was just playing Mechmod, and, the fractal water doesn't bog anything down at all. In fact, I was rather amazed that there was a Half-Life MOD with pixel shading... But yeah, my FPS were great.

 

[Ultimate 17]

I think you are missing the point. Many of us are having to run this game in D3D mode, which would be the ONLY game I've ever played on the HL engine that I had to run this mode. This is the HL engine --and its capabilites-- that we are discussing, something that came out nearly 6 years ago (1999). This engine shouldn't require brand new video cards for HL or any of its mods. If you have a newer card, then good for you. For some of us who are stuck on the good old GeForce 2 (I will never knock on my GTS, its been a great card) because we are poor college students, we can't go out and buy these new cards just to play some mod of a 5+ year old game.

They (MM) did the effects for fun as PCJoe stated, since this will be their only HL release. Maybe they were seeing how things might look for their HL2 version with similar-looking HL2 water graphics. Obviously they weren't much at a loss with people not being able to run OGL with their mod seeing as they made their mod for HL2 in the first place.

However, since ESF is sticking to the HL engine, they should stick to what works for everyone. Gameplay should always be the main focus of future releases. It's what attracts new players to play and old players to continue playing.

 

[Emhilradim]

What the hell nimrod? I didn't say to use fractal water, I just said, it wasn't as bad as you put it. As I said before, water in DBZ was NOT transparent, and therefore, it should NOT be transparent in ESF. It was ALSO not reflective.

Yet, somehow, you read my post in your own little way, and decided what I said was, "let's use fractal water!" Such is not the case.

 

[KarrdeKNR]

Emhilradim, you're allowed to have your own opinion, but you just crossed the line into flaming. Warning for flaming. Try to make your point without insults and patronization.

-Karrde-

 

[Ultimate 17]

What the hell nimrod?

First off, show some respect. I'm not some noob who's been playing ESF since September of 2004. A mere 3+ months into the game. Maybe you've played a lil' longer than your join date on the forums, but can't be that much longer because the forums will suck you in immediately after getting the game.

Secondly, this thread is discussing whether or not the effects of MM should be used in ESF as well. You're post was saying that your computer handled the water just fine at decent fps. Thats good FOR YOU. However, I was speaking on behalf of the people who do not have great fps or cannot even run OGL with the fancy effects. I was defending PCJoe and Hsu's comment on why this game shouldn't include the MM graphics. Since you commented on what Hsu posted about what PCJoe had said, then I guess I was in the right to post what I did.

I addressed your post in the manner of how I understood it, how else would you like me to comprehend your comments? In someone else's shoes? It doesn't work that way. I read it and interpretted how I thought you meant to post. I certainly didn't intend on posting something that would result in immature name calling.

Now, sorry for being half off-topic on this thread, but please, continue the debate.

 

[Emhilradim]

First off, show some respect. I'm not some noob who's been playing ESF since September of 2004. A mere 3+ months into the game. Maybe you've played a lil' longer than your join date on the forums, but can't be that much longer because the forums will suck you in immediately after getting the game.

Well, if it really matters to you, I've been playing since Alpha. It was kinda fun downloading those little packs, that featured transformations by binding a key.

Secondly, this thread is discussing whether or not the effects of MM should be used in ESF as well. You're post was saying that your computer handled the water just fine at decent fps. Thats good FOR YOU. However, I was speaking on behalf of the people who do not have great fps or cannot even run OGL with the fancy effects. I was defending PCJoe and Hsu's comment on why this game shouldn't include the MM graphics. Since you commented on what Hsu posted about what PCJoe had said, then I guess I was in the right to post what I did.

Just love those lists... Anyway, it's $40 - $50USD (before S+H) to buy a FX5200 or RADEON 9200 these days... So there's not really any reason NOT to have one, because those cards are dirt cheap, and work much better than a GF2.

I addressed your post in the manner of how I understood it, how else would you like me to comprehend your comments? In someone else's shoes? It doesn't work that way. I read it and interpretted how I thought you meant to post. I certainly didn't intend on posting something that would result in immature name calling.

No, my problem was you read the post the way you wanted my post to sound. I said before, and I say again, ESF shouldn't even have transparent water, let alone fractal. If you still use a GF2, I commend you for your loyalty (or whatever other reason), but, a GF2 runs ESF like crap anyway, now doesn't it?

I'm not questioning anyone's monetary situation, but, if you have enough money to go to college, I'm sure you could shell out a few extra dollars to update your GPU. And if you shell out too much money on porn (not judging anyone, but I've seen that excuse)... Consider your expenditures that you're shelling out, to see a girl you'll probably never even touch getting sodomized by a goat.

 

[jp]

*grabs some popcorn*

Wow, what a show!!! whoohoo!!


ontopic...

Naw no need to do mechmod, i am satisfied with the graphics it has now, good enough for me.