Lucifer the Satan VS Anubis [spoiler]

New Member
✔️ HL Verified
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Nov 14, 2003
Messages
3,974
Best answers
0
'sif america hasn't tried wiping out other nations.

sure some of hitlers acts were deplorable, but he was still both an economic, and tactical genius.

btw, if anyone watches the show "House MD", watch the episode "House vs. God". friggin hilarious.
 
New Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2004
Messages
652
Best answers
0
Location
On the Annihilatrix.
'sif america hasn't tried wiping out other nations.

sure some of hitlers acts were deplorable, but he was still both an economic, and tactical genius.

btw, if anyone watches the show "House MD", watch the episode "House vs. God". friggin hilarious.
Thats true. I hate Hitler also.. but he was damn smart. I think the only tactical mistake he made was challenging the US and Russia at the same time. (in a tactical point of view that was a stupid mistake... im not saying that killing 6 million jews wasn't a mistake or a bad thing... just so you guys know)

His arrogance was his down-fall.
 
New Member
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Oct 2, 2002
Messages
1,043
Best answers
0
There's a perfectly logical reason JDude is being pigpiled right now, and I don't think the reason is "to test his faith."

However it's nice that nobody's flipped out yet. I would've liked to be countered by one of the "faithful" but... nobody wants to read my massive rants >_> Alas.

Throughout history, it's a general trend that faith in the form of unwavering belief generally just leads to a major superiority complex. And once people start believing that they're "The Chosen" that's when they start treating other people like animals. That's what the Japanese were thinking when they raped Nanking. That's what the Crusaders were thinking when they raped Jerusalem. That's what the Americans were thinking when they wiped out the Native Americans (manifest destiny). Heck, it's probably what Israeli soldiers think when they gun down Palestinians, and it's also what Palestinians think when they blow themselves up on Israelis!

It goes on and on... and they all "knew," and it was all "proven" to them via the incorruptable power of believing exactly what you're told.

It's a frustrating conversation... but I don't blame you for your stance. To change it would be to shatter your safe little world. Science doesn't provide you with comfort; it provides you with facts, and with them, you decide what to do. Freely. Science is, partially, a matter of belief, this is correct. I do not look through the electron microscopes. Many religious folks use this argument in an attempt to discredit it and place it on the same level as a religion, however, science is more importantly a matter of synergy. It is a combination of subjective perspectives and experiences, millions of them, constantly refining, repeating, checking every part of it, challenging every idea and making new ones. Using science we're able to combine all of our subjective experiences and experiments in order to uncover that very concept we call truth: objectivity. And that which we call unknown only represents endless possibility, endless truth which we have yet to uncover. There is nothing soulless or cold about it, unless you decide to view it that way. And people only view it that way because science has a habit of discrediting the lofty myths that people have believed for eons to comfort themselves.

Religion, on the other hand, refuses to be changed; when it does, it is an injury, not a success. Religion is interpreted differently by every individual, and when conflict arises, there is no right or wrong... because it is strictly a matter of interpretation, strictly a matter of belief. The Bible, the Koran, the Torah, they are all interpreted and learned from by individuals much in the same way any piece of literature is interpreted.

The law of gravity, however, requires no interpreting. There is right and wrong, true and false as we discover it... but we must always keep in mind, and here is the big difference, that we could be wrong about any given thing at any given moment (something religion NEVER concedes to do itself). The reason we DO believe in it at all is because the results given by science are PROVABLE and VERIFIABLE in an organized manner by truckloads of people. It is believed to be true because it uses that logical method, and logic is the only way humans have ever been able to discover anything they can constantly, reliably, reproducably, and thus near-unwaverably call true. As I said before, it's the only reason you can read a Bible in the first place.

If you view science as religion, then it's the most successful religion in the history of the planet. It's miracles can be seen every day, and what's great furthermore is they are almost all perfectly explicable, perfectly replicable. And while there are certainly many disagreements within science itself, there are no major divisions in science to the point of the divisions in actual religions (i.e people are able to, for the greater part, agree on the majority of it), and most importantly there are no scientists dehumanizing, maiming, killing, or otherwise destroying other humans because they disagree with science.

I suppose this won't be read either but I can't help saying it.
 
Freelance Mappzor
✔️ HL Verified
🚂 Steam Linked
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Nov 21, 2003
Messages
17,065
Best answers
0
Location
Stairing at the Abyss
I read it. And you forgot one thing. Some of the major scientific breakthroughs in history were in no way trial and error. Take newton. He got the idea cause an apple fell on his head. "Oh snap i just discovered gravity!"

As for religion and believes. Its the strongest weapon that humans ever had. No bomb is as powerfull as faith. Just think about it. Get a lot of people to believe that the moon will fall on us unless we sacrefice 1 billion people. And 1 billion people will actaully be killed.

On the other hand its the biggest strength we humans posess. If someone really believes in something no torture or anything else will keep him from that goal.

So basically its exacly like science. It can bring prosperity or disaster. In the end its just human nature.

As a side question. Did anyone notice that the actions of Jesus in teh bible are more similar to those of a rabi than a priest?
 
Active Member
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Nov 6, 2005
Messages
1,037
Best answers
0
[...]
As a side question. Did anyone notice that the actions of Jesus in teh bible are more similar to those of a rabi than a priest?
That's because chrisianity didn't exist at that time....
It was formed long after the death of Jesus. He was jewish
 

MC

New Member
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
May 24, 2003
Messages
3,989
Best answers
0
Location
United States, Florida
I read it. And you forgot one thing. Some of the major scientific breakthroughs in history were in no way trial and error. Take newton. He got the idea cause an apple fell on his head. "Oh snap i just discovered gravity!"

As for religion and believes. Its the strongest weapon that humans ever had. No bomb is as powerfull as faith. Just think about it. Get a lot of people to believe that the moon will fall on us unless we sacrefice 1 billion people. And 1 billion people will actaully be killed.

On the other hand its the biggest strength we humans posess. If someone really believes in something no torture or anything else will keep him from that goal.

So basically its exacly like science. It can bring prosperity or disaster. In the end its just human nature.

As a side question. Did anyone notice that the actions of Jesus in teh bible are more similar to those of a rabi than a priest?
Sir Isaac Newton knew about gravity before the apple fell from the tree, though the apple falling helped him expand the theory further.
 
New Member
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Oct 2, 2002
Messages
1,043
Best answers
0
I read it. And you forgot one thing. Some of the major scientific breakthroughs in history were in no way trial and error. Take newton. He got the idea cause an apple fell on his head. "Oh snap i just discovered gravity!"
It was an observation of several small events that occurred, which lead him to a logical conclusion. It was not a matter of "revelation" or anything of the sort.

As for religion and believes. Its the strongest weapon that humans ever had. No bomb is as powerfull as faith. Just think about it. Get a lot of people to believe that the moon will fall on us unless we sacrefice 1 billion people. And 1 billion people will actaully be killed.

On the other hand its the biggest strength we humans posess. If someone really believes in something no torture or anything else will keep him from that goal.

So basically its exacly like science. It can bring prosperity or disaster. In the end its just human nature.
You're missing half the point. I'm not just talking about science being useful for making trains and bombs vs. religion inventing nothing (other than stories and doctrines). I'm not just talking about raw "power." Of course religion has uses, and it's own brand of something you might call "power," however those uses predominantly involve sedating and manipulating masses of suggestible people, just like you said in your example. It's power directed entirely over the human mind. All of those people killing for the moon are being lied to; the moon will fall on them regardless of what they believe or how many people they sacrifice. There's nothing special about that. I could lie to you about something right now and I would be excercising that very same power of human impressionability... it just wouldn't have the same religious label.

On the other hand, and this is all hypothetical, but say the study of proper science tells you that the moon is going to fall on us. This is because we're able to physically observe the actions of the moon using telescopes and recording movements. Then it will tell you exactly how the moon is going to fall on us, and roughly when, and by applying proper physics calculations what will likely happen once it does. Then, if we can't already prevent it, the moon falls on us, but at least we have an idea of what to prepare for (if anything can be done at all.) I would say that's all the difference in the world.

So on the one hand you have a coping mechanism that you use to falsely unite/control people (I want to use the word "granfalloon" if anyone's read Cat's Cradle), and on the other hand, a method of directly understanding just what the hell is going on. This is a power of UNDERSTANDING which is exerted onto objects, not just other minds. Furthermore, it is all provable and demonstrable to other human beings; you cannot reinterpret the laws of thermodynamics, or decide that you'd only like to believe certain parts of it, unless of course you yourself can demonstratively (very important word) prove otherwise!

That brings me to the main point here. The purpose of subscribing to any of these institutions, I'm assuming, is for the pursuit of something we might be able to call truth. People believe in religions as a way of explaining to themselves where they came from and why they're here; and the same goes for science, however science, obviously, offers much less definitive answers when it comes to existential questions. But science has been answering smaller questions all the time; smaller questions that various religions have also tried to answer, but in lieu of scientific discovery, has again and again been shown to be incorrect. Sometimes, completely ridiculous. What I'm trying to say is that the way they go about obtaining those answers is far more... well... dare I say it? LOGICAL, than the vast vast majority of religions, and they tend to be right about them. The true power and importance lies in the discovery of truths, of objectivity, of the workings of our universe. We're not going to discover it just by idly sitting by and assuming some other, greater creature knows. And if there is a God of some sort, and this is entirely my unfounded opinion, but I'd optimistically assume that he'd have wanted us to explore and unwind this huge freaking jigsaw puzzle instead of ignore everything just to be His faithful dogs.

I have way too much time this week.
 
Freelance Mappzor
✔️ HL Verified
🚂 Steam Linked
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Nov 21, 2003
Messages
17,065
Best answers
0
Location
Stairing at the Abyss
And if there is a God of some sort, and this is entirely my unfounded opinion, but I'd optimistically assume that he'd have wanted us to explore and unwind this huge freaking jigsaw puzzle instead of ignore everything just to be His faithful dogs.

I have way too much time this week.
I kinda like how you said that. Yea i figured out myself that folowing religion word for word would be something like a DO or DIE situation with no actuall free will. Either folow my words or burn in hell. Thats why i believe if God gave us free will it doesnt mather what we believe in asl long as we freely choose to do the right thing when the choice apears. It can allways go 3 ways, either we do the right thing, the wrong thing or we ignore it totally. Ofcourse the third option is out of the question when it comes to something regarding ourselves, our families or freinds. But thats just me.

Also i know science can proove everything. But its also true that every discovery in science we make opens up about 10 questions more. Questions that we are unable to anwser. And since people fear that wich they dont understand, they turn to releigion.

Then again even science manipulates masses. Think of it this way. If tehy discovered taht the moon would actually fall, would they openly say it? I sure dont think so. I also believe that not all scientific acheevements are public.

The good thing about science though is that it can change itself. People ussed to think the earth was flat and youd fall off the edge. Then discovered it wasnt. Science corrects its misstakes while religion simply disregards them. I know for a fact that the dark ages are something the church does not want to discuss or change how it works because fo them. But both religion and science were ussed for mass murder through history. The thing about relligion is that it tells us what to do while science only tells us how to do it. So the finall choice in science is up to us humans. Wich mostly leads to disaster.

Humans can turn every major scientific breakthrough thats ment to be for the good of humanity into a weapon that can kill masses. Its not the fault of science but the fault of us beeing so ignorant as a specis. We streeve for power and would crush anyone and anything to get it. Religion kinda tryes to prevent us from doing so. But it can only keep those people under controll that have strong believes.

BAH ill stop here since i hate writing long posts XD Seems teh discussion about 2 supernatural beeings fighting turned into a quite interesting discussion about religiob VS science. 5 pages and nothing that would make the thread in need of closing :p

I say we have a new record XD
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom