HOWing, what's your take?

[Optional]

HeadOnWhore

if you how you are considered to be cheap

Howing is considered by many a bug in 1.1, like in 1.0 when block countering was a bug. it was not in the new version and neither is howing.

I think that the only reason that howing is condered cheap is because of its name. HeadOnWhore, doesnt sound very nice does it? but block countering, if someone made up a label for block countering, i think half the esf community would turn against it...

Whats the point!? the best players in 1.0 ALL used Block countering...
Some of the best in 1.1 HOW so why is howing considered cheap?

this is controversial, all depends on standing point of views...

i dont think it should be considered cheap, i dont how myself...it is a part of the game and i dont see any reason why not! its like saying that melee is for noobs only! some of the people strongly against howing end up doing it themselves!

i understand that it can be very annoying, being howed, but so was block countering in 1.0! i dont see much of a difference!

 

[GMan]

HeadOnWhore

if you how you are considered to be cheap

Howing is considered by many a bug in 1.1, like in 1.0 when block countering was a bug. it was not in the new version and neither is howing.

I think that the only reason that howing is condered cheap is because of its name. HeadOnWhore, doesnt sound very nice does it? but block countering, if someone made up a label for block countering, i think half the esf community would turn against it...

Whats the point!? the best players in 1.0 ALL used Block countering...
Some of the best in 1.1 HOW so why is howing considered cheap?

this is controversial, all depends on standing point of views...

i dont think it should be considered cheap, i dont how myself...it is a part of the game and i dont see any reason why not! its like saying that melee is for noobs only! some of the people strongly against howing end up doing it themselves!

i understand that it can be very annoying, being howed, but so was block countering in 1.0! i dont see much of a difference!

We had a nice (confusing) chat about this a little while ago, and although I guess I can see your point to some degree, in another light I really don't. You're saying that block countering was acceptable because the 'good players' did it? So, if everyone was as good at is as the 'good players,' they would be good players too? You're saying that they were considered better than other players because they could use this bug? Does that seem right to you? I personally don't think so.

I see HOWing as more of a temporary fix to the ping problem that was rushed a bit too much. There could have been better solutions to melee then introducing the KI system. You ask why HOWing is cheap if the best players use it.. well.. it goes back around to how block "countering" (abusing) was in 1.0. If you knew how to use it, and could use it well, you could own with it. However, it was a bug. Just because it's there, does that justify the use of it? I personally don't think so.

You're right in the fact that there isn't much of a difference between being HOWed and being block countered. They are both an easy way out of a situation you otherwise might not have been able to escape from. If you're outperforming someone else, but they happen to have 5% more of a full bar because you swooped two seconds longer than they did, they win? Does that make sense to you? I personally don't think so.

I'm not going to vote on that poll because people make mistakes and can hit someone while recharging occasionally when they are surprised. This doesn't make them a noob, but I believe it is a cheap (noobish) tactic if you're going to use it as a large staple of your playing style.

 

[Optional]

So if it is a part of the game and was added knowingly, you still wouldn't use it as the rest of the community does?

 

[GMan]

I did the same thing in Jedi Knight II. Just because in version 1.02, it was easy to abuse the special moves, doesn't mean I did it. In fact, I never did them. Why? It was the easy thing to do. If I could beat someone who was doing it, without doing it, I was the better, and more honorable, player for it.

 

[MONXver2.0]

I usally just turn if i'm about to go head on with the other guy. *sometimes we can't hit each other since the smaller hit boxes*. I think you should just find a way around it, oh and plz turn to not use the word HOWing. BIO PLZ MAKE THEM STOP, it hurts ears hearing that word.

 

[GMan]

This isn't about what to do ingame, this is about the idea of HOWing itself. Is it or is it not proper?

*Shrug* I just think that the KI system was a mistake made by the ESF team. Everyone makes mistakes. I don't blame them. I just think there could have been a better solution.

 

[Bi0 Brolli]

Im only going to say this...

Do you have skill?

Why hasn't howing got to me?

To answer that question is that it doesn't effect me.. You know why because I found a way to stop it. THAT IS THE ONLY THING YOU HAVE TO DO. Why should I make myself more easier for the other person because they don't know how to move out of the way. This is where skill comes in.. Now I have to think of how much ki the person has spent and know when to attack. I know when im going to lose on a head on and when I have a sure win. That is why when I know im going to lose I get out of it and get more ki. Let say I so called not howed and played like gman wants. There will be someone out there that does. If I vs him and I can't beat him then I have the problem because he has won over me. I played esf far to long to be stopped by something little like howing. These are the thing I went threw as I played esf and how I found a way threw it.

Alpha 2.0
Beam falling/Passed it by falling with the person.

Beta 1.0
blockcount/right when you hit the guy blocking let go of fly.

Beta 1.1
HOWING/Fake the person out turn on your turbo and he will think its a swoop or come at him a fake away or stop and charge in the middle.

There that is it! If I can pass all the so called cheap moves that have been going on threw esf then so can all you how callers.

 

[Optional]

I totally agree bi0.

 

[GMan]

Once again this topic is not about fighting HOWers but whether or not you believe it to be an acceptable way to play. I know that you use KI as primary way to attack. I don't believe it to be ethically right. People might say this is just a game. That is fantastic. Yes, it's a game. There are also people playing the game. When people are involved it's a social thing, and generally, people's morals or values are put into play. I think that it is more, how should I put it, polite, to play against someone without using a method that is considered cheap by many people. It isn't always about winning, but how you win, at least for me. I don't know about you. I would rather win without using a cheesy tactic.

There is also a rather interesting thread Here about scripting in ESF, and what is and is not acceptable. I would never use a gameplay script in a game. That's just how I play. I think it gives an unfair advantage to the user, and there shouldn't be such a thing. If someone uses a script ingame that gives them an advantage, I don't have to give them props for it. Rather, I'll look down on them for it. It's their choice to do it, not mine. If it was my choice, this thread wouldn't exist.

 

[Epedemic_Optikz]

/me waits for Beta 1.2

HOW to me doesn't exist it doesn't even make since at all so I just ignore it and play and like Bi0 said just find ways to just move out the way and just wait until they mess up...

 

[Death The Jedi]

Ehh.. this makes no sense to me. I personally like the new melee system, it adds for more tactics, and isn't all about power level.

 

[ArchNemesis]

bah i LOVE how bi0 brolly put it best if u have skill HOWing shouldnt be a problem... i mean i would play.. and i would dddge them if their howing me and stilll get in for the attack...then they accuse ME of howing... its a pain in the ass when u play a great game and have to put up with asshats.... thats what kills many games..the players....bah im pissed im going to sleep

and as for the system of melee itself...of course theres a way around the HOWing but there should be changes so that melee can be determined in a better way than just ki... besides the only reason its like this is because many ppl whined that they wanted 1.1 rushed out.... and because of it well... there was a rushed out melee along with it...i dont see howing as a glitch i just see it as another thing to get by...

 

[Pain]

HOWing as you put it is nowhere near as bad as what i think your actualy refering to. last second melee (LSM). you say head on whore but that only means they go straight at u. last second melee would be using the ki system against the opponent, i think that is pretty cheap. but you know what, it is SO easy to get around its not even a problem. and i have yet to see a skilled (famous in the esf community) player use lsm. we all do it from time to time when we are caught off guard, but once in a while is fine. just as long as you dont sit there and wait, i dont see a problem with it. i have been faking people out as bi0 brolly has stated for a while. its just the obvious thing to do. trick them into coming at u first. but most of the time i wont go head on with them. i like to call it last second teleport melee to the back. when they swoop at you and arent really turning left or right (as a skilled player might), simply teleport once behind them. hold right click incase u actualy teleport into them. if you happen to teleport into them you will be too close and they cant hit u, however you will hit them. its a nice bug, i have performed a few dozen times. anyway, if u manage to get behind them use your skill to immidiatly swoop after u come out of teleport. while your opponent is flying through your little teleport dots you should already be on his ass. his swoop will stop and you will give him a nice friendly kick in the back. its not really all that hard to pull off against an unexperianced player, but ive tried this against some people in various clans and it didnt work nearly as well. im sure GMan is going to tell me to get back on topic so, i see nothing wrong with HOWing or LSMing since they are simple to avoid, just as block countering was in 1.0

 

[a pro wannabe]

In B1.0 you could win a head-on even if you had higher ping (50p-100p). I miss that . That has changed along with the hit detection.. I think. Now winner is determined only by Ki. Personaly I don't think the new melee is bad. I don't call people HOW'ers.. unless they start first, lol. Although it is kinda annoying if you're "HOWed" all the time .

 

[RaVe]

of course its annoying,its WAY past annoying,esp. when its against bots

but yes sometimes you do not realize,that youve been doing some HOWing yourself if youve done a head-on or 2,so your best bet?? Follow bi0's rules,then mix it with your own.

No matter how cheap,they can never beat the one weapon I was able to get in 1.0 before,and that is confusion.Never fails to fool an idiotic HOWer

EDIT : But if you are really desperate,like going against Devil,or someone constantly trans-killing you,HOW them all you want They deserve it

 

[NeoBlaze]

We had a nice (confusing) chat about this a little while ago, and although I guess I can see your point to some degree, in another light I really don't. You're saying that block countering was acceptable because the 'good players' did it? So, if everyone was as good at is as the 'good players,' they would be good players too? You're saying that they were considered better than other players because they could use this bug? Does that seem right to you? I personally don't think so.

I see HOWing as more of a temporary fix to the ping problem that was rushed a bit too much. There could have been better solutions to melee then introducing the KI system. You ask why HOWing is cheap if the best players use it.. well.. it goes back around to how block "countering" (abusing) was in 1.0. If you knew how to use it, and could use it well, you could own with it. However, it was a bug. Just because it's there, does that justify the use of it? I personally don't think so.

You're right in the fact that there isn't much of a difference between being HOWed and being block countered. They are both an easy way out of a situation you otherwise might not have been able to escape from. If you're outperforming someone else, but they happen to have 5% more of a full bar because you swooped two seconds longer than they did, they win? Does that make sense to you? I personally don't think so.

I'm not going to vote on that poll because people make mistakes and can hit someone while recharging occasionally when they are surprised. This doesn't make them a noob, but I believe it is a cheap (noobish) tactic if you're going to use it as a large staple of your playing style.

GMan, I agree with you totally. I think everyone should read what this and take that into consideration. This should also go for other bugs that give you an edge on combat.This totally makes sense. I personally do think so.

 

[toothleswapper]

I always forget about HOWing. And when I play no1 uses it so I dont even have a problem. I was used on me one when I was shooting my friend wiht kilibo but she kept blocking it. So I did a simple thing.... I shot beside her and the blast thingy covered her and she died. So what you do is shoot beside the person who's HOWing if they are on ground then the blast from almost any attack with hurt them. And if they are in the air, shoot beside them and right click. But not all attacks blow up from right clicking.

So HOWing should be aloud if thats wut your talking about(I only read some of it cause so many words O_O )

 

[Lynxy]

I guess I'll give it a shot in here as well.

I personally have to agree with GMan, let's say I'd rather lose "skillfully" than to win with a tactic considered cheap. And yes, there are many ways around HOWing, but HOWing isn't always used by "sucky" people. I know lots of good people of esf that use it, and sometimes there's no way around it, that's just tough luck. As a ssj HOWing is pretty much easy to avoid, you can use speed to confuse your enemy and hit him from all sides. HOWing in normal form, is more of a problem to me. You're slow, can hardly suprise anyone and you're destined to do the same back, it sucks.

I do have to admit, if someone goes straight at me from the other side of the map, I won't go all fancy and do a backhit, I'll simply "headon" him and charge again. Also, if I would ask anyone to play with HOWing, they would consider every hit of mine as a HOW. I think it's pretty pointless to discuss about it, since it'll get out of control like others did. I'm just better off without using HOW, and some others don't, so ta, that seperates us.

HOWing can't be disallowed, it's something you can use or not, all up to you. If you think you're in need of it, just use it all the way. Some people are just hardly against it and get annoyed (I myself get annoyed if someone HOWs 90% of the time). Anyway I just live with it, I can get pretty much around it, and if not, I guess I'll "lose".

Yours truly,
-Lynx-

 

[NeoBlaze]

Well, this is only a b1.1 flaw, 1.2 is on its way. I am sure the team has already talked about this have already made a better melee system.

 

[grOOvy]

I'm afraid I'm gonna have to agree with Bi0 on this one. I talk to Lynx a lot and whenever we hear about people HOWing, my reply to him is always "get around it, don't fall for it". It's really simple to get around 'most' people HOWing. Unlike some others I know who specialize in HOWing and you have to really try to escape from their wait-and-attack trap.

That was my opinion on facing a HOW, but for those who use it, sorry but you suck. Nothing else. It's a shame that you have to rely on the bug or exploit just to fight. Like Bi0 pointed out, in 1.0 we used to have the block counter as a bug. It's ok, many people used it, even myself at times. The only person I knew who was dead against blocking was Lynx =]. But try and remember what it felt like when you thought of a person who only sat around blocking and waiting to block-counter with the bug? That's exactly the same point I am trying to prove with 1.1, if you HOW once in a while in some conditions, it's still acceptable... but doing it all the time like a "whore" as the term's full form states... then like I said before, sorry you suck.

And to get back to GMan's 'on-topic' point, HOWing should be acceptable by people, but some of the extreme "I only HOW, nothing else" people... my opinion about them is really sad. It's a shame that many of the good people in 1.0 have to resort to this; and I will not name anyone, so relax I'm not pointing fingers.