Feminism? oO

[Halion]

"Feminism is the idea that we can make both sexes equal by focusing solely on the issues of one of them."

This is something I've been thinking about for quite some time now. Throughout history, men have been the "ruling" gender, while women were indeed left to merely nothing. And this is not okay. Or better to say, was not okay.

Lately, women have been fighting for their rights and for equality and have, indeed, made some pretty remarkable progress. Only problem is, something they didn't expect, or did expect but just didn't mind since it didn't quite affect them as a gender, happened. As women fought for their rights and slowly gained them, they went as far as to actually create this idea of counter-sexism, sexism towards men.

Now, this may seem like bull**** at first glance, but when you think about it, how many times have you caught yourself grabbing a woman's ass and ending up with

a) a slap to the face

b) being called a pig, or even

c) getting into a fight because of it.

On the other hand, how many times has a woman grabbed YOUR ASS and have the same happen to her? Nada. Not once. It just doesn't happen. It's perfectly acceptable for women to touch and grab men's private parts, but when a man does the same to a woman, it's degrading? Why? Also, if a woman should say "All men are pigs", she'd get a weird look, at best. But, if a man should say "All women are whores", he'd end up with a hornet's nest of angry feminists on his ass for even THINKING something like that. Or, if a woman slaps a man, she's a *****. If a man slaps a woman, however, that's abuse and harrassment. Another example would be, if you're driving faster than the speed limit and you're a man, you'd get pulled over and, most likely, be given a ticket. If you're a woman, ESPECIALLY an attractive woman, you'd also get pulled over, but chances are you're off the hook as soon as the policeman (usually a man) sees that you're a woman. Not once has my mother gotten pulled over and paid a ticket, while this is not the case with my father.

Tired of my own examples? No problem, here are some factual documented cases of sexism against men:

1) Women get on average 40% less jail time than men for the same crime. Third paragraph on: http://misformalevolent.blogspot.com/2009/09/s-is-for-statistics.html

2) Men are usually the ones that pay child support. How often is it you find that, after a divorce, it's actually the WOMAN that pays for child support? More on this on: http://deltabravo.net/custody/stats.php

3) Men go to war. Women don't. Okay, here you can argue that men are stronger. However, I know women that are black belts and are perfectly capable of defending themselves, and my aunt is one of the best snipers in my province. Forgive me, but I'd much rather stay home with my children than go and fight wars, killing innocent people because some guy with a lot of money told me to do so.

4) There are parties all the time with free drinks for women. While this could be argued as the purpose for this being to get the ladies drunk so men can take advantage of them, not once have a heard a woman complain about her free drink. Also, (and this is personal experience, many times over) if you're underage, and a woman, chances are you'll be let into a 18+ or 21+ night club, while if you're a man, the security guy's gonna want your ID, and even then, if you aren't dressed good enough, you might not be able to get in. Time after time this has happened to me.

Now, I'm all for the equality for the genders. Truly am. As long as it's equality in every sense! The only true way to get equal sexes is to focus on ALL the issues of unequality, not just the ones where women are treated unfairly. I mean, the way it is now, you get the impression that women (feminists) only want equality where it works to their advantage, and they just forget about all the other issues. Now, I don't want to generalize, because I'm sure that there are some out there who get what I'm saying. But seriously, that's the impression I'm getting over here. If feminism is equality, then for God's sake, start acting like it. That is all.

 

[Grega]

Where did this come from i wonder.

But yea. How about gay parades. Nothing against gays, they are mostly cool people, but why do they get a parade and we straight fellas dont.

Oh the other hand those rules are there to appease the receivers while they are written to show superiority of the other side.

Woman slaps man = man is a dick, man slaps woman = lawsuit.

That rule alone is designed in a way as if to say that men are the only ones who matter. We are the only ones who get to make a choice. Only our actions are important.

Depends on what side of the rule you are looking from.

Now for your closing statement. Feminism isnt equality. Its feminism, its leaning towards the female gender. The word itself says that. Equality is its own thing that lies between the both extremes.

 

[Zeonix]

Number of times I've been caught grabbing a random woman's ass: 0
Number of times I've grabbed a random woman's ass: 0

Just throwing that out there.

I've had this conversation a few times. What it boils down to is the women you're talking about want all the benefits of being a man and all the benefits of chivalry with none of the drawbacks. Of course, chivalry boils down to the idea that women are fragile and need to be protected by men, but that doesn't really concern anyone these days because throwing your jacket on the ground to cover a centimeter of water is the gentlemanly thing to do and **** you for thinking otherwise. That's the one hand. On the other, many women react quite violently to chivalry, and may The Nix help you should you hold a door open for her. They reject the idea that women need to be taken care of, and go out of their way to be as independent as possible, going so far as to label common courtesy misogyny. That said, I've only ever had one girlfriend ask me not to pay for things, but, of course, that ended in tragedy, ultimately creating the bitter and rage-filled man standing behind you today.

Ultra feminists got their cake and they got to eat it, too.

Personally, I'm all about absolute equality. How I treat you is based on your personality type and your merits. If you're cool, you're cool. Tits? Nice. No tits? Whatever, man. Did you just swing at me? Not cool, dude. I'm putting you down. Did you just swing at me, too? I'm not above piledriving you 13 stories down into a car, [FONT=arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif]ma cherie. [/FONT]

 

[Tenzo]

Yeah. And it won't change for a while. That's the position of women 'cause they've been "suppressed" most of the time in history and now they have rights and all. That's the position of every race/nationality/minority/group that has been abused in the past.

I mean... imagine a group of men associating themselves and fighting for their rights or for men that were abused by women. :-/
Now how would that sound!? Surely almost everyone will say that they're pussies or something similar.
You see... men are supposed to resolve their issues/problems of this sort by themselves or else they'll most certainly never have sex(free) again. :shocked:

 

[hleV]

Also, (and this is personal experience, many times over) if you're underage, and a woman, chances are you'll be let into a 18+ or 21+ night club, while if you're a man, the security guy's gonna want your ID, and even then, if you aren't dressed good enough, you might not be able to get in. Time after time this has happened to me.

Yeah. It's also a good idea to have at least one chick with you. While it sucks to go into a night club with a female friend, it at least helps you get in even if all of you are underage. At least in 21+ cases, when you're only 18+.

 

[Akation]

My stance on this is equal and logical, which is why I never believed in Chivalry, it's an imaginary rule to judge men on. I've been in a few situations where people questioned my actions.

I was at a friend's house, where my friend's female friend walks out the bathroom, and asks, "who left the seat up?". I'm sitting here wanting to make a stance that all she has to do is put the seat down, and that it isn't anyone's responsibility to put the seat down other than yourself if that's what you want. I just didn't say anything, because she and I are on good terms, and I have a feeling that she might have judged me falsely based on my views.

I also never say things like ladies first, I don't open doors specifically for females, I do so for everyone regardless of gender. People are raised from children to adults to believe in this crap, and my logic just can't accept it. I can't respect feminists because they want equality in the areas that benefit them, but also want to be treated superior from Males. This is not a strong foundation for feminists at all. The violence deal is really irritating, which is why it's completely unfair for a female to hit a male and not expect anything back. If you're going to hit someone, male or female, you need to understand the ramification of that action before you commit it. The ramification that females ponder up is, "if he hits me back, it's bad news for him". The male gets hit and it's humorous, the female gets hit and the male gets scolded and potentially arrested. It's almost similar to being completely brain-dead to misandry.

 

[Zeonix]

3) Men go to war. Women don't. Okay, here you can argue that men are stronger. However, I know women that are black belts and are perfectly capable of defending themselves, and my aunt is one of the best snipers in my province. Forgive me, but I'd much rather stay home with my children than go and fight wars, killing innocent people because some guy with a lot of money told me to do so.

I'll quickly touch on this. There are two reasons why women don't belong in the infantry. When I put all of my gear on and throw on my pack, I weigh about 365 lbs. Most women can't carry that much weight, go on a 60 mile hump through the mountains, and still be capable of engaging the enemy with accurate fire. There are onesies and twosies out there, but the logistical cost of changing everything for one or two women out of 100 quite frankly isn't worth it, especially when we already have an excess of recruits and the Corps is trying to downsize. Secondly, when placed on the field with men, if they get shot or otherwise injured, most men go out of their way to protect and aid her. That's the kind of bull**** that gets people killed. So infantry? No thanks. Other combat roles? Absolutely. We already have female fighter pilots and helo combat pilots. I'm sure women are operating UAVs.

@Fortnox: "Most feminists" aren't fighting to correct the inherent inequality now found in the justice system as it applies to men, so I think its safe to say they aren't above benefiting from a chivalrous mindset. It's important not to think of any group as being one thing or another. As with most groups, feminism operates on a sliding scale. You have extreme feminists on one side of the scale who want to dominate men and basically use us as slave labor and for breeding, and then you have the opposite extreme where we're viewed as absolute equals. Then there are the gazillion variations in between. The side that actually goes out and protests generally belongs to the worst extreme because, as with most groups, the vocal minority commands all.

Gay pride parades? I don't even know what this has to do with anything, Grega, but alright. You'll find that every group with a parade is considered a minority. As fortnox pointed out, the goal is to bring about greater awareness of said group, while also, perhaps, celebrating its culture, history and so on. There is no straight pride parade because heterosexuals are in the overwhelming majority. It's also why we never see "White Pride" parades that don't involve extreme racism. The entire system is based upon white, hetero males, really. Draw any more attention to that and people might begin to realize just how unequal they are.

 

[Zeonix]

This isn't anything to do with chivalry. The reason bouncers do this is because they know that the more women are in their club the more groups of guys on "the hunt" will come to their club, so they're more lenient to women because it brings in more money.

Absolutely true. The inequality begins with the women, however, as they expect, nay, demand that you get them free drinks. Be the one to say no, and you'll get dirty looks from her group of friends for hours. Why is it men are expected to buy drinks for women without any kind of benefit guaranteed? Because women control sex and men can't possibly resist the temptation, even if its a false temptation, right? Well, that's kind of the impression women get because quite a bit of men have absolutely no self-control to begin with. Take back the power. This is the key to equality. Ever play "No sex until I get what I want"? Women play it all the time. But I'm better at it. I lose at nothing, and win at everything. Let me teach you. Let me guide you. Let me love you. Enter me, ESF forum. ACCESS GRANTED

 

[Akation]

Ever play "No sex until I get what I want"? Women play it all the time. But I'm better at it. I lose at nothing, and win at everything.

Reads like poetry.

 

[DiebytheSword]

I'm personally about equality of opportunity over absolute forced equality. Men and Women are different, as Praetorius has pointed out with his Marine example. If a woman should be able to do a "man's job", she should be allowed with the same benefits and pay, period.

I always engage in chivalry, but I will immediately back off upon request. I have found that most women in my neck of the woods appreciate it and are actually surprised that it is being applied to them.

I won't hit a woman unless she is actually trying (and has a chance of succeeding) to hurt me. I learned a hard lesson on this one from my Tae Kwon Do instructor, she beat my ass until I threw down. From that moment on, I respected the ability of a woman to hit and hurt me. They aren't all delicate flowers, and they shouldn't be treated as such.

As for the pride parades, I think they actually hurt their cause more than they help it, but I have no problems with them doing it. I seriously doubt that people are unaware of the existence or plight of gays, but I am quite sure that people who hate on them use the celebrated culture and history against them.

I also agree with the eat the cake and have it too argument, I have a friend who refuses to do "feminine" jobs but is the stay at home mom. She just won't cook for her kids. ****ed up, but good luck pointing that out to her.

 

[Zeonix]

I won't hit a woman unless she is actually trying (and has a chance of succeeding) to hurt me. I learned a hard lesson on this one from my Tae Kwon Do instructor, she beat my ass until I threw down. From that moment on, I respected the ability of a woman to hit and hurt me. They aren't all delicate flowers, and they shouldn't be treated as such.

For all of your hardchargers out there, this same mentality should apply to men. Never be the first person to throw a punch, but always throws the last one. And yeah, yeah, some people are all about "being the bigger man" and running to an authority figure, but the kind of people who punch first, ask questions later prey on the "bigger man".

 

[Eon]

Now, this may seem like bull**** at first glance, but when you think about it, how many times have you caught yourself grabbing a woman's ass and ending up with

a) a slap to the face

b) being called a pig, or even

c) getting into a fight because of it.

None because I don't go around grabbing asses. I try to keep creepy groping to a minimum.



I got pulled over by a lady cop, and my license was suspended. I didn't know it was suspended, but that with my insurance card being left at home for some retarded reason, I was supposed to go to jail. However I'm [amazingly] attractive, and got my way out of that one. Works both ways.


Also clubs letting in underage girls and not guys is just creepy and is doing the stupid minor no favors. Clubs want more girls there so guys stay longer and get drunk and buy them drinks. Whether it's special or not it's profitable. That's like asking why Hooters doesn't have enough male waiters.



Basically, my point is STOP GROPING PEOPLE'S ASSES

 

[Grega]

Seems like my little comment started a discussion of its own.

So let me clear it up by saying it was a joke aimed at the notion that groups wanting equality get beneficial treatment.

 

[Zeonix]

How do homosexuals get beneficial treatment? Anyone is allowed to throw a parade provided you acquire the appropriate permits.

 

[DiebytheSword]

For all of your hardchargers out there, this same mentality should apply to men. Never be the first person to throw a punch, but always throws the last one. And yeah, yeah, some people are all about "being the bigger man" and running to an authority figure, but the kind of people who punch first, ask questions later prey on the "bigger man".

I was unclear on that, but yes, it applies to men too. Not bragging, but I have way to much martial skill to "let loose" on the average person. Unless they are a serious threat to me, they will get immobilized and warned before continuing. An armed person would be placed automatically into the "no holds barred" area. I'm fortunate to not have not run into too many of the punch first types, and all but two backed off during the warning/immobilization phase. Those two had to be educated the hard way.

That said, I agree that they prey on the "bigger men", so I advocate strong self defense and secondarily being the law abiding citizen.

 

[Zeonix]

I was unclear on that, but yes, it applies to men too. Not bragging, but I have way to much martial skill to "let loose" on the average person. Unless they are a serious threat to me, they will get immobilized and warned before continuing. An armed person would be placed automatically into the "no holds barred" area. I'm fortunate to not have not run into too many of the punch first types, and all but two backed off during the warning/immobilization phase. Those two had to be educated the hard way.

That said, I agree that they prey on the "bigger men", so I advocate strong self defense and secondarily being the law abiding citizen.

I operate with the mindset that I don't go out of my way to hurt people, so if you violate my sovereignty, I'm going to respond by kicking it up 3 or 4 notches. I've never been hassled by the same person twice, so it works pretty well for me. This goes for physical confrontations and verbal conflicts alike. I call it "The American Defense System". What's that? One of our tourists was killed in your country? Better carpet bomb you back to the stone age! It strikes fear in the person you just destroyed, keeping them from being a repeat offender, as well as in everyone in a 400 light year radius, ensuring they take special care not to go out of their way to play games with you. No one wants to be on the receiving end of a Liberty Punch or a Freedom Kick.

 

[DiebytheSword]

How do homosexuals get beneficial treatment? Anyone is allowed to throw a parade provided you acquire the appropriate permits.

Slander a gay in the media and you get crucified, slander a straight, white, conservative male in the media and you get a gold star, pat on the back, and hero status. Just an example, there are better ones.

I'm completely for equal rights and equal treatment under the law, I am against giving certain groups privileged status to make up for past wrongs. Equal Opportunity Employment is great, Affirmative Action is terrible. I think that's the point Grega was trying to make, not specifically parades, but overzealous protection of one minority group at the cost of others.

 

[Zeonix]

Slander a gay in the media and you get crucified, slander a straight, white, conservative male in the media and you get a gold star, pat on the back, and hero status. Just an example, there are better ones.

I'm completely for equal rights and equal treatment under the law, I am against giving certain groups privileged status to make up for past wrongs. Equal Opportunity Employment is great, Affirmative Action is terrible. I think that's the point Grega was trying to make, not specifically parades, but overzealous protection of one minority group at the cost of others.

To be fair, many of those "Straight, white, conservative males" are, in fact, homosexuals. It's almost a rule that the harder one fights against the "homosexual agenda" the more likely he is to go to motels to rail out 15 dudes. Also, slandering a person based on their sexual preference is one thing, and calling out someone else who happens to be a WASP is another.

Considering homosexuals can't even get married in most states, and most people still feel icky about them in the States, I think its safe to say they aren't exactly a protected minority, even in the most liberal of areas.

 

[DiebytheSword]

I operate with the mindset that I don't go out of my way to hurt people, so if you violate my sovereignty, I'm going to respond by kicking it up 3 or 4 notches. I've never been hassled by the same person twice, so it works pretty well for me. This goes for physical confrontations and verbal conflicts alike. I call it "The American Defense System". What's that? One of our tourists was killed in your country? Better carpet bomb you back to the stone age! It strikes fear in the person you just destroyed, keeping them from being a repeat offender, as well as in everyone in a 400 light year radius, ensuring they take special care not to go out of their way to play games with you. No one wants to be on the receiving end of a Liberty Punch or a Freedom Kick.

LMAO, sounds like you and I operate similarly. The last time I had to do it was about 5 years ago. A guy who had found out I studied the martial arts continually tried to goad me into "sparring matches" that were clearly about Alpha Male status and testing his mettle rather than an honest exchange of technique and philosophy (of which I've had many such encounters). It eventually devolved into him randomly trying to hit or hurt me at work, which was the last straw. He was literally trying to give me paper cuts at one point to goad me into a fighting mood, so I obliged, as it was the last insult I was willing to suffer (all the rest were easily parried). I dropped him with a single spear hand to his solar plexus. I think I'll call it the spear hand of the Republic. :yes:

 

[DiebytheSword]

To be fair, many of those "Straight, white, conservative males" are, in fact, homosexuals. It's almost a rule that the harder one fights against the "homosexual agenda" the more likely he is to go to motels to rail out 15 dudes. Also, slandering a person based on their sexual preference is one thing, and calling out someone else who happens to be a WASP is another.

Considering homosexuals can't even get married in most states, and most people still feel icky about them in the States, I think its safe to say they aren't exactly a protected minority, even in the most liberal of areas.

You are correct, they are currently behind the ball. So long as they aren't moved into protected status, I would applaud the efforts to get them there. For example, It is currently okay to be a black panther and threaten voters, try doing that in a KKK outfit and see what happens. Unequal protection under the law. For the record, I would see both individuals as ready for Jail.