Fear to Halt Scientific Progress Once Again?

Cunning as Zeus
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Peacock said:
The builders of the world's biggest particle collider are being sued in federal court over fears that the experiment might create globe-gobbling black holes or never-before-seen strains of matter that would destroy the planet.

Representatives at Fermilab in Illinois and at Europe's CERN laboratory, two of the defendants in the case, say there's no chance that the Large Hadron Collider would cause such cosmic catastrophes. Nevertheless, they're bracing to defend themselves in the courtroom as well as the court of public opinion.

The Large Hadron Collider, or LHC, is due for startup later this year at CERN's headquarters on the French-Swiss border. It's expected to tackle some of the deepest questions in science: Is the foundation of modern physics right or wrong? What existed during the very first moment of the universe's existence? Why do some particles have mass while others don't? What is the nature of dark matter? Are there extra dimensions of space out there that we haven't yet detected?

Some folks outside the scientific mainstream have asked darker questions as well: Could the collider create mini-black holes that last long enough and get big enough to turn into a matter-sucking maelstrom? Could exotic particles known as magnetic monopoles throw atomic nuclei out of whack? Could quarks recombine into "strangelets" that would turn the whole Earth into one big lump of exotic matter?

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/27/823924.aspx
So people "outside of the scientific mainstream" and a bunch of lawyers are attempting to stall, or even stop, scientists from activating the Large Hadron Collider because people out on the fringe of science are saying the production of incredibly tiny black holes might create one semi-large black hole that would destroy the Earth. They're also voicing their worries about other equally improbable possibilities in the hopes that the project will be scrapped for the good of mankind (a gross assumption. Sue me). This kind of nonsense upsets me. Are these theories, if you can even call them that as there really isn't any evidence to back up any of their claims, impossible? No, and no real scientist will ever make that claim, because anything is possible. But really now, the likelihood of what they're claiming may happen of actually occurring is up there with the likelihood of me becoming Mar-Vell.

I think fear can be a good thing and is what will probably keep us from destroying ourselves, as long as what we fear is logical and isn't based on pseudo-science or bad feelings or complete and utter ignorance of the topic at hand. It's this kind of irrational fear that's keeping us from living for a thousand years or curing a variety of diseases and ailments that, if given the proper funding, could be wiped out in the next decade.
 
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As far as I know, even the tinyest black hole will continue sucking everything it can in. Is the gravitational pull of those holes greater than the Earth's? If it is, then if they do activate it, we're ****ed 'cause it'll suck our air out, slowly but effectively. If it's weaker than the Earth's gravitational pull, so be it, open them up, if the holes are tiny, big objects won't be able to pass through it.....right?

I'm not very informed on the matter, so I'm speaking through logic. If I'm wrong anywhere please correct me.
 
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The black hole they'll be creating will be extremely weak, extremely small and will dissipate in a fraction of a second.

No danger involved.
 
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They're being sued? I would call that progress... used to be they'd just kill you.

And could somebody tell me why all the other particle colliders are fine, but this one is the one that is powerful enough to kill us all?
 
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"We'll be deviating a bit from standard analysis procedure today, Gordon."

"Yes, but with good reason! This is a rare opportunity for us. This is the purest sample we've seen yet."

"And potentially the most unstable..."

"Now now, if you follow standard insertion procedures everything will be fine..."

"I don't know HOW you can say that, although I will admit that the possibility of a resonance cascade scenario is extremely unlikely..."

"Gordon doesn't need to hear all this, he's a hihgly trained professional! We've assured the adminitrator that NOTHING WILL GO WRONG."

*later*

"Setting overhead capacitors to one-oh-five percent..."

"Uh...it's probably not a problem...probably, but I'm showing a small discrepancy in...well, no it's well within acceptable bounds. Sustaining sequence..."

"Go ahead Gordon, schlot the carrier into the analysis port..."

"What is he doing in there?!"

"Nothing YOU need to worry about Gordon. Go ahead."

*Resonance cascade begins to turn everything to Hell*

"Oh dear!"

"Gordon! Get away from the beam!"

"Shutting down...!"

"...ATTEMPTING to shut down...It's not-It's not shutting down, it's-ARGH!!!!!"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

10 years Later...

"If we can find it, we can use it against the Combine!"

"Did Black Mesa teach you NOTHING?! There's no controlling that kind of power!"

"Well, yes, there is a slight risk, but think of the benefit for mankind!"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hehe, just a bit of a similar sounding scenario...Personally, I think you sure make sure to rule out any possibility of such catastrophic events taking place before attemtping such experiments. If it truly is safe, then go for it. Otherwise, it's never worth the risk. All it would take was one opportunity for it to go wrong.
 
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Nothing is ever completely safe and there will always be risks. Because no one wants to say something is impossible, because that's something you can never truly know, these people think they have the right to say "**** you!" to progress. As I said before, the likelihood of their fears coming to life is on par with that of me becoming Mar-Vell. If none of you read comics, I mean the chances are infinitesmally small. We haven't come this far by not taking risks and we shouldn't switch up our game plan now that we're this close to answering extremely important (it's relative, I guess) questions.
 
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As far as I know, even the tinyest black hole will continue sucking everything it can in. Is the gravitational pull of those holes greater than the Earth's? If it is, then if they do activate it, we're ****ed 'cause it'll suck our air out, slowly but effectively. If it's weaker than the Earth's gravitational pull, so be it, open them up, if the holes are tiny, big objects won't be able to pass through it.....right?
when you think about it, black holes ARE tiny. even then it takes a relatively short time for them to decay and disappear. now if you compare a black holes already pinsize nature, these blackholes that would be made would almost be non-existent. in short, we havent invented a unit of time short enough to show how long these things would be in existence.

even then, in order to maintain a black-hole needs to feed. without the massive ammount of radiation and matter that only the remains of a supernova could disperse, a black hole cant exist.

And could somebody tell me why all the other particle colliders are fine, but this one is the one that is powerful enough to kill us all?
ive never seen a particle collider like this one. a PC is usually just an enormous circular tube that accelerates protons to nearly the speed of light, then has them collide.

in any case, i wouldnt blame those that are actually scared. we have been shown possibilities on our TV screens for years. whats more is that people dont understand is that just because something is possible, doesnt mean it will happen. it's possible for you to get 10 heads in a row on a coin toss, but try a million times and i doubt it'll ever happen.
 
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I'm with Zeonix on this one. A black hole, until now, has been something entirely theoretical. Now they're finally making it a reality, even if it is a small and insignificant black hole. This is quite advanced science, and even if there are risks, I say they're worth taking. If everything is handled well, who knows what benefits we could get from this?

The world has too many paranoics, and not enough visionaries. That's the problem here.
 
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Black hole = endless energy

Well in a way. Imagine a space ship that uses a black hole powered engine to travel.

The posibility of reaching speeds impossible till now. and since black holes have their own gravitational field there wouldnt really be any problems with supoer acceleration or breaking even in space.
 
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Black hole = endless energy

Well in a way. Imagine a space ship that uses a black hole powered engine to travel.

The posibility of reaching speeds impossible till now. and since black holes have their own gravitational field there wouldnt really be any problems with supoer acceleration or breaking even in space.
There are several ways to travel at superluminal speeds, but this isn't one of them.
 
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Black hole = endless energy

Well in a way. Imagine a space ship that uses a black hole powered engine to travel.

The posibility of reaching speeds impossible till now. and since black holes have their own gravitational field there wouldnt really be any problems with supoer acceleration or breaking even in space.

A black hole as an energy source? Isn't that about the exact opposite of what a black hole does? And didn't someone mention that it would need radiation to sustain it? How would we harness energy from a black hole?

Another question, how do we contain something like that? I mean, it's not like you can stick it inside a box and just let it bounce around...that's a powerful force, however large or small. I'd imagine any containment system that falls within it's range would just fold in upon itself and get sucked into the event horizon. I mean, I've heard of antimatter being kept from colliding with other matter using some kind of magnetic field, but would that prove true with a physical entity which absorbs even something like light?

And another thing...does gravity have an effect on a black hole? Or is it independent of it?

I'm willing to go along with this if we can truly bring about such results without ushering forth Armageddon, but I have to be certain that those in charge of this experiment are neglecting nothing in all their eagerness and excitement.
 
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If a black hole can be sustained. 2 of them could be ussed to make a gravitational cyclone from which we could get the energy.
 
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If we had two black holes capable of somehow producing energy for us, the solar system would probably get sucked in. Because that's what it does. It takes and takes and takes and never gives back. As far as I know, it doesn't produce/emit anything other than hawking radiation.
 
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but thats only as far as we know. there's probably a lot about black-holes we have still yet to learn and only haven't because theres not really a safe (or possible) way of creating one.

dammit, sub posted before me. you ass.

heheh, i think the black-holes would be too small to create much energy.
 
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but thats only as far as we know. there's probably a lot about black-holes we have still yet to learn and only haven't because theres not really a safe (or possible) way of creating one.

dammit, sub posted before me. you ass.

heheh, i think the black-holes would be too small to create much energy.
The LHD can create mini-black holes, so we're good to go once the lawyers remove their heads from their asses.

And for the record, normal black holes aren't exactly tiny. Neither are supermassive black holes.
 
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If we had two black holes capable of somehow producing energy for us, the solar system would probably get sucked in. Because that's what it does. It takes and takes and takes and never gives back. As far as I know, it doesn't produce/emit anything other than hawking radiation.

The idea is to have 2 weak black holes insid a cyrcular turbine (that can sustain them). Have one in the center. Now gravitational fields (basically magnetic waves) are usually a cyrcular motion. That could make the black holes start cyrclig round one another, and starting to spin the turbine that sustains them along with them.

But thats as far as my own theoryes (and imagination) goes.
 
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If it has the potential to kill us all, I say let it.
 
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The idea is to have 2 weak black holes insid a cyrcular turbine (that can sustain them). Have one in the center. Now gravitational fields (basically magnetic waves) are usually a cyrcular motion. That could make the black holes start cyrclig round one another, and starting to spin the turbine that sustains them along with them.

But thats as far as my own theoryes (and imagination) goes.
I tried to think of a compelling and polite way to say what I want to say, but I'm a little tired so I'll just say that idea is a no-go.

@ Arthos: That's the spirit!
 
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I tried to think of a compelling and polite way to say what I want to say, but I'm a little tired so I'll just say that idea is a no-go.

@ Arthos: That's the spirit!
Yea i know its far fetched ^^

But i can dream, cant i?

And i allso agree with arthos. The planet wont miss us ^^
 

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