downgrading vista to xp, howto please =(.

[Nuttzy]

kk so i just went and bought me a new computer,

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+
2GB memory
320gb HDD

integrated video, but even still right out of the box it should still run circles around my current one, i also have no clue as to what the PSU wattage is, so i may wind up replacing it before i can buy an actual graphics card.

current pc stats btw,
2gz intel something or another,
768mb memory,
an Nvidia geforce 5200 fx >_> (pci version, HORRIBLE card)
and a whopping 40gig HDD

upgraded the usb ports, added a dvd-rw drive and bought a nifty little external hard disk to make up for the small capacity,

so unless vista is a major major resource hog, i should easily be doing better than before, however alot of people who have purchased the same PC recommend dropping back to xp, which i plan to do if it can be done fairly easily.


i do have a xp license, (probably non-transferable to a new machine, but still there) but no physical copy of the media, so i planned to download it, Im not asking for WHERE to get it nor planning on saying where, but that it is my only way to get at xp without paying for a new disc.

I bring that up just in case this will cause me to have to install differently, but so far as i know i just burn it to a disk and boot it from there.

and im calling that the easy part,

now the part that worries me is the drivers for the hardware. I originally planned to do a full format before installing xp so as to completely erase all of the bloatware that comes with most pre-built computers. but i do not know how or when to install the drivers for well,...... anything.

if i was to completely format a freshly opened vista machine, and pop in my xp dvd, what would i do from there? would i have to find the drivers for each and every piece of hardware in it?

i have----never---- installed an operating system before, im sure thats apparent after reading my post, but i need answers, its gonna be here in less than a week =/.


there is a local pc place that i could pay to do this for me, but well i dont trust the clowns, seeing as the last time i went in there they busted my cpu fan =/. and the fact that im using a sketchy installation of xp =/.

 

[Phobius]

Alright I'm assuming your going to be using an OEM copy of windows xp. I've got around this by calling up microsoft and saying I upgraded my parts in my old pc and I'm getting the error that the components don't match the old machine. If its something like 3+ pieces of new hardware XP will force you to get a new key from microsoft. I've done this 2x with the same XP key and it worked alright just plan on using it only for one machine though cause it won't work on both.

installing XP is like eating a piece of pie. Put your disc in restart your machine and the install should appear. Mind you will need to partition one of your drives where you are planning to put XP under which means deleting everything on the HDD. Also remember to partition with an NTSF file system. I don't remember the exact steps but if you read carefully and follow the right directions you should be ok.

Heres a link to a simple step guide to installing xp I found a while ago:
http://www.buildeasypc.com/sw/windows_xp.htm

XP has some decent driver support for most machines so when your all done installing XP the drivers should be installed as well then you can go and update your drivers at their specific website.

If you need anymore help nuttzy feel free to pm me and I'll give you my contact info if you need anymore help.

 

[Nuttzy]

very good link phobs, prettymuch explains every possible step, unfortunately a few general questions come to mind now that I see how to do it,

when installing XP i am given the choice to format during the setup process? or do i have to do this first,

and lets say i bork the installation of XP, bad.... like lets say after the format. can the pre-built PC system restore discs rescure it from that? I need to know that If i screw this up I can still bring it right back to Vista with no problems before i trust myself with completely removing it.

 

[Grega]

very good link phobs, prettymuch explains every possible step, unfortunately a few general questions come to mind now that I see how to do it,

when installing XP i am given the choice to format during the setup process? or do i have to do this first,

and lets say i bork the installation of XP, bad.... like lets say after the format. can the pre-built PC system restore discs rescure it from that? I need to know that If i screw this up I can still bring it right back to Vista with no problems before i trust myself with completely removing it.

Once yoiu formate your HD you cant go back. Youll need a fresh install. Then again installing Windows is allmost like installing any other program. Folow what it says and click "next" a few times (so to say ^^).

There sare a few settings you can change but nothing that would dramatically effect the installation.

And if you actually manage to butcher up the instalation you can still formate again and start over.

In any case XP should have enough driver suport to get your system runing normally. Ofcourse updating GFX drivers is still required for better performance.

 

[Phobius]

very good link phobs, prettymuch explains every possible step, unfortunately a few general questions come to mind now that I see how to do it,

when installing XP i am given the choice to format during the setup process? or do i have to do this first,

and lets say i bork the installation of XP, bad.... like lets say after the format. can the pre-built PC system restore discs rescure it from that? I need to know that If i screw this up I can still bring it right back to Vista with no problems before i trust myself with completely removing it.

When your loading up your system it will ask what hard drive you want to install windows on and from there it will tell you that you will need to partition the drive to install it on. So if theres nothing on there you want go ahead and delete the partition and build the partition again.

You can't really bork the installation I'd say.

 

[Nuttzy]

well i know id need a fresh install, but i mean wold the restore discs put everything back how it was, vista and all if there were any problems whilst installing xp?

reason i ask is because of the situation i was forced into, (no longer having a physical xp cd) i had to download it, (have the key and everything already, if its transferable that is) and several people are reporting problems with the version in particular.

im not asking for support on anything related to that, but just throwing that out there so you know why im being careful =P.

 

[FreeDoM]

I recommend formatting your drive(s), then installing XP fresh. This will eliminate any problems down the road. If XP will not accept anymore registrations, when you call MS. DO NOT, tell them you've changed hardware. Depending on what you say, that may or may not give you the phone registration code. Simply telling them you've had to format your drive will do the trick.

 

[Phobius]

Problem with that is when you register your copy of XP for the first time it sends your system specs to microsofts DB. So if it was the same system and he was just doing a reformat the code will work no problem but if theres a hardware change of more then 3 pieces it will require you to call up. I've done it 2x already and got a phone registration each time, told them I added a few new parts and told them what my last parts were.

 

[FreeDoM]

They refused me a few times, redial was my friend though =)

 

[Phobius]

Thats whats great about Canada's microsoft office!

 

[john_volkov]

or you could try not to active your windows online like i do all the time , when it says will you like to resigtre to bl al bla bla you got yes and no , I allwase chose no and i have no problem I'v change a lot of prats in my pc.Or it might be my windows version because i instaled it to ohters guys with same cd key but never activeted

 

[Nuttzy]

k well i just remembered that xp comes in several different "flavors",

if my processor is a "AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+ " (copied and pasted) should i then get the 64bit version? or would it matter either way. I got my uncle talked into fronting me a new copy of the OS through his connections at IBM, (rich bastard) but im not sure which one i need.

ive never really bothered with learning what OS do what, ive always just used what came with it =/.

rather, what would i be missing out on if i chose the wrong version? I hear alot about systems not recognizing all of the memory and whatnot.

 

[SailorAlea]

XP64 sucks compared to Vista 64. None of the hardware manufacturers make drivers for it.

You need a 64-bit OS (and a 64-bit processor) to recognize 4GB of physical memory. 32-bit operating systems have a memory address limitation in that they can only address 4GB (2^32 or 4,294,967,296 bytes) of memory. This includes the RAM your computer addresses inside your physical RAM, virtual RAM and video card/sound card RAM.

RAM a 16-bit operating system can recognize: 65536 bytes / 64MB.

RAM a 32-bit operating system can recogize: 4,294,967,296 bytes / 4GB.

RAM a 64-bit operating system can recognize:

18,446,744,073,709,551,616 bytes, or
18,014,398,509,481,984 megabytes, or
17,592,186,044,416 gigabytes, or
17,179,869,184 terabytes, or
16,777,216 petabytes, or
16,384 exabytes, or
16 zettabytes.

As you might imagine, we're probably not going to hit the memory address wall for 64-bit operating systems in the next 20 years, if our lifetimes. Hard to predict that sort of thing.

Anyhoo--Vista has matured a lot since it debuted. Or, more accurately, I should say, the drivers for it have--while there was a decent amount of resistance in the beginning, I'd say it would be a mistake to go XP. Especially XP64.

 

[Nuttzy]

well its more of the resource hogging im worried about, i had a test run with vista today and I do like alot of its features, but if downgrading to xp will give me a considerable jump in performance, then im going to do that, seeing as i cannot afford a graphics card at the moment.

so which version would you recommend? 2gb memory is all i would really ever need, maybe 4gb if it can be done on xp as well but not any time soon.


btw the computer is on its way to my house right now =) <3 tracking

 

[SailorAlea]

I'd recommend sticking with Vista--the 64-bit version. XP64 is barely supported--nVidia/ATI/Creative/etc simply don't create drivers for it. Your games and applications will not be supported.

Vista had issues in the beginning--not issues of Microsoft's doing, but of the drivers whose manufacturers had simply failed to get on the ball. They're much more mature now and there isn't much of a difference in terms of performance.

Games and applications will continue to support XP (non-64) for awhile, but the wind is blowing towards Vista.

-------------

As for Vista 32-bit vs. 64-bit--I'd get the 64-bit version if your processor supports it. Granted, you bought an AMD 64 chip (why?) which tend to pale in performance to the Core 2 chips.

That aside--you need both a 64-bit processor and operating system if you want your computer to be able to recognize 4GB of RAM.

A 16-bit operating system can recognize 2^16 bytes of RAM, or 64 MB.
A 32-bit operating system can* recognize 2^32 bytes of RAM, or 4 GB.
A 64-bit operating system can** recognize 2^64 bytes of RAM, or 17,592,186,044,416 GB. (16 zettabytes).

* One might say, "Hey! 32-bit operating systems can address 4GB!" but the truth is that this 4GB total includes memory mapped for devices such as video cards and sound cards, as well as virtual memory.

** Vista 64's max is 16GB for Home Premium, 128GB for Enterprise/Business/Ultimate.

 

[Nuttzy]

bleh, Im trying for the most bang for my buck, if vista slows the computer down slower than what it should be, I dont want it on there. Everyone ive talked to/read about this says that dropping back down to xp will give you a considerable boost in performance. While I do like the new interface of Vista, its not worth it IMO if it has higher system requirements than the games i want to run on it =/.


which version is ideal, is all im asking. Im getting the OS free but i need to know which one to ask for.

 

[SailorAlea]

bleh, Im trying for the most bang for my buck, if vista slows the computer down slower than what it should be, I dont want it on there. Everyone ive talked to/read about this says that dropping back down to xp will give you a considerable boost in performance. While I do like the new interface of Vista, its not worth it IMO if it has higher system requirements than the games i want to run on it =/.


which version is ideal, is all im asking. Im getting the OS free but i need to know which one to ask for.

Depends on what you mean by "boost." Like I said, there were minor-to-significant differences in performances on Vista's release--mostly because of ATI/Nvidia's immature drivers. That isn't really a problem anymore, and you will eventually become unable to play the latest games as more and more DX10-only games come out.

You need Vista if you want to take advantage of your 64-bit processor.

 

[Nuttzy]

ok lets go that route then, if i stick with vista, what do i have to do to make it not suck =/.

im sure adding an actual video card would help tremendously, and i do have one in mind,
but are there any tweaks that can weaken its chokehold on resources that would be better saved for the actual games i plan to play on it?

 

[SailorAlea]

ok lets go that route then, if i stick with vista, what do i have to do to make it not suck =/.

im sure adding an actual video card would help tremendously, and i do have one in mind,
but are there any tweaks that can weaken its chokehold on resources that would be better saved for the actual games i plan to play on it?

You don't really have to do anything. Just install the latest drivers and you'll be fine. There's nothing wrong with the OS itself.

"User Account Control" can be pretty annoying, but it's easily disabled.

People who think Vista is a resource hog simply misunderstand how it works. In XP, the system basically tries to load as little into RAM as it possibly can, freeing up room for any application you choose to load.

Vista on the other hand, loads (up to a point) as much into RAM as it can, so it can be in the much-faster-to-access RAM, as opposed to the hard drive. How does it know what to load, you ask? It's a technology unique to Vista, called "SuperFetch." If you play WoW every day at 3:00PM, the system will partially load it so it starts up faster.

People misunderstand this and think "Wow! Look at how much of my RAM the OS is using! I'll have no RAM left for my games! Oh noooooees!"

 

[Nuttzy]

well, im on the new machine now, they forgot the restore discs so for now at least im being careful with what Im removing, what i assume is bloatware may actually be required and all.

ill include a screenshot here in a bit. so maybe you can help me with that problem,

i need to move my old pc to the other desk and burn me some games on a disk right quick to see if everything is working properly.


EDIT***
fired up steam, w/ the 4 free games and the HL2 demo.

Portal is a bit laggy, however it auto-picked max settings, lowering these helped. also doesnt help that practically everything in portal has a fancy shader on it.

HL2 on the other hand, was perfectly playable at max settings and thats using integrated video =), I cant wait til i get an actual graphics card. the one i have in mind requires a more powerful PSU though, this POS only came with a 250w