destiny or choice

[Cyfore]

So my brain fired, and I felt the need to respond to your post, but let's say I chose not to, even though my brain made me feel the need to reply, I still believe I have the choice of whether or not I actually do it.

in the words of the white guys in the old budweiser "wazaaaa" commercials:
"THAT IS CORRECT"

everything that sonic is saying eventually comes down to whether or not a choice is made. and even if you dont make a choice, you still "choose" not to choose. :yes:

 

[eightballcmd]

your choices are destined. so wether you know it or not you are doing what you are destined to do . there are certain moments when you have major choices that effect your destiny. like dirive home extreemly drunk. or pass out on this couch.

 

[SoulStriker]

I started reading sonic's post, then I saw that I was only like not even a quarter of the way in, and I decided to stop for the time being, I don't have time to give it my full attention. I will read it and respond soon enough.

As for Destiny vs. Free Will and all that jazz, I believe in both quite frankly. Different things will happen to different people, because of the choices that everyone makes. There is only so much the choices of one individual can do. You can choose not to walk across the street, but you could still get hit by a car, because of someone else's choice. You can choose to stay away from bad areas in town, but you can still get shot in the street taking your child for a walk, because of someone else's choice. You can only stop so many things with good choices, then you must (heaven forbid) trust the other people to do the same.

Obviously, not everyone can be trusted, but there is nothing you nor I can do about it.

Cheers,

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

Nobody has responded to my tape recording thing. What about the guy you tape recorded? Whenever you play that back he thinks he has a choice, but we all know it's already been made. No matter how many times you play the tape it always comes out the same, no matter how hard he thinks it wont change the fact that his choice is predestined. The future is set in stone just like the past is, since you can only make one decision, and you can't go back in time to change that decision, it's the only decision you can possibly make. Choice is an illusion.

See you can say a thousand times "But I could've done this" and it wont matter because you didn't. You can't argue "I could have just not responded" because you disproved it. You did, therefore, you couldn't have not responded, because I 'kin rewind mah tape and watch you post over and over, and it'll never show an alternative. It's the way it had to be.

 

[Oatemeal]

[EDIT]I problay make no sense but try and read it anyway


hay think about this 1,
We Dont Really Excist
Ok here it goe may confuse ya abit
It takes a certain amount of time to travel between A and B no matter how big or small the distance it takes time right? but in between point a and point b there are more and more points so say this is + A and this is - B it looks like
+...........- but every point still takes time to get to no matter how big or small so if you think about it there are even more and more points so there are an infinate points between point A and point B no matter how big or small this may be! could be 5cm still that but if there are infinate points between a and b and it takes time to move to each point dosnt it really take an infanate amount of time to get there? and dosnt that meen we cant posibly be seeing our selves moving to these places if it takes infinity to get there

 

[Optimus Prime]

Nobody has responded to my tape recording thing. What about the guy you tape recorded? Whenever you play that back he thinks he has a choice, but we all know it's already been made. No matter how many times you play the tape it always comes out the same, no matter how hard he thinks it wont change the fact that his choice is predestined. The future is set in stone just like the past is, since you can only make one decision, and you can't go back in time to change that decision, it's the only decision you can possibly make. Choice is an illusion.

See you can say a thousand times "But I could've done this" and it wont matter because you didn't. You can't argue "I could have just not responded" because you disproved it. You did, therefore, you couldn't have not responded, because I 'kin rewind mah tape and watch you post over and over, and it'll never show an alternative. It's the way it had to be.

That is a terrible argument Sonic, of course the tape is never going to change because it's a tape, thats a weak argument. Choice is not illusion, people make choices every day, do I run the yellow or stop? Do I speed or be late for work?

The late for work example, the person probably wasn't destined to be late, but perhaps choices they made, such as staying up to late.

Did I eat breakfast this morning? No, my stomach told me I was hungry, but did I eat? No. I chose not to, life is filled with choices, I wasn't predestined to not eat breakfast today... life revolves around choice.

 

[Cyfore]

ILL RESPOND TO THE TAPE RECORD THING!!!

do you really think he has a choice? its a friggin tape man. he had a choice when you were recording him. he has now made his choice and he cant go back in time to change his decision. his choice in the video is not predestined. it "seems" predestined because you are the one that knows all when it comes to that tape. the guy on the tape is not really him now, its him in the past. but whatever floats your boat or finds your lost remote...

hehe, every post you make is continuing to disprove you first argument... my advice, go back in time and dont write the chunky part of your first argument and dont write the other replies after that. hmmmm, but you already made that CHOICE didnt you? you cant go back and change it, now can you?

 

[Hash]

I kind of have the same idea that sonic has.

When I first saw this poll and picked an option, I immediately chose the option choice, as I like to believe I have my own choices. This is my personality, that's the way I think. After all the experiences i've had in my life, as well as all the traits i've recieved from my parents, my personality has been formed to what it is today, and I make "choices" based on that personality. Also, your personality is constantly changing, as it absorbs new information and experiances new things.

Now when I saw this poll, my brain had to make a decision, and it used my personality as the main factor in deciding. Now what I said earlier comes into play. My personality has been shaped to think that life is made of choices, and that I have the choice to do anything. So using this information, my brain made what It thought to be was the most logical choice, and chose that option, choice. This idea works with anything, though it may not be so obvious.

In response to Optimus, do you be late? Or do you speed to work? You say he made the choice to be late because last night he made the choice to stay up late. Now lets flash back to that night, when he decided to stay up.

According to you, he had the choice as to whether he should stay up late, or to go to bed at a reasonable time, but did he really have that choice? When he made it, he used his personality as the main deciding factor. Now when his brain looked apon his personality to decide whether he should stay up late, his personality, which had been formed through all its experiances thats happened to it, and the traits it has recieved from it's parents, had been formed in such a way that when your brain uses it to make the choice of staying up late, it determines that that choice is the most logical one it coudl make. So it chooses to stay up late.

There was no way that he could of chose to go to bed, because his personality had been formed to make his brain think that staying up is what it wants to do. Now the next day, once he made that decision, he could've have said he could've made the other decision, but in reality he couldn't, because his personality had been interpreted by his brain and made it choose to stay up. The only reason that he, the next day, says he could've decided to go to bed, is because now his personality has changed slightly, it has experianced the consequences of staying up late and now when his brain uses it to determine choices it now would make a different choice. The same logic can be used for whether he will speed or get to work late. He doesn't really have a choice, he will be late because that's what his brain interprets from his personality.

Choice really is an illusion, you are presented with a choice to make but even though you may think each one has an equal chance of being picked, your already are predetermined to choose one because of how your personality has beend formed.

 

[Cyfore]

baka baka baka!!!

the sheer amount of times that you try to prove you argument by using choice as an example is ridiculous in itself. i should run that through Word and see how many times you said "choice". ok, so youre personality is formed by lots of things:genes, experiences, other stuff. but stil, those people that are involved in those determining factors make their own choices too. that contributes to you making choices. So in the end, we all end up making choices based on our own experiences, not because something is predetermined.

BAKA!!!

 

[Enderwiggin]

Your future, what i belive about it is, its combined, both destiny, and choice, more choice than anything else...

 

[Hash]

But you see, those other people that are involved in determining those factors don't make there own choices, they might believe there making there own choices, but there personality is already formed and the choice is predetermined for them. These predetermined choices influence you, to shape your personality. And now the personality you have, which has been influenced by others personalities, is predetermined to, because the personalities that influenced you was already predetermined.

You will then make predetermined choices based on your present personality, which in turn will influence others with your predetermined choices and that will shape there personality to make predetermined choices to influence others, and so on.

What i'm trying to get at, is that it's like a big merry-go-round. It just keeps going and going, as everybody rides one it, with no actual power over where the merry-go-round goes.

 

[SailorAlea]

Many people here seem to be disregarding the impulsive instinct that people have. We don't always think about our decisions, sometimes we just do things that we want to do without thinking about the consequences. Perhaps our brain subconsciously evaluates decisions, but people rarely make the decision which is best for them, they pick what's easy.

You can give someone a bunch of pairs of shoes, and tell them to pick which two they want, and then say, "Aha! You see? You were MEANT to pick those!" because it's already happened.

The fact that we live in a linear existence means that no linear being can really say for a fact, that anything was "meant" to be. They can say it was, because it happened, but really you have no proof that it was meant to happen, just because it did.

When someone tells you to pick a random number out of a hundred, perhaps you will indeed say a number that you usually say in response to that number. But what if someone asks you to keep doing it? 97! 45! 38! 05! 30! I don't believe that those choices were influenced by anything, I spontaneously decided to pick something, and I did. And that's how many things are just done.

Some people find comfort in fatalism, because no matter what they do, it's excusable, because they were meant to do it.

Does that mean you can't really condemn a murderer, because he was meant to murder, and you can't blame someone for being what they were meant to be?

No.

And in any case, someone making decisions based on their past experiences, and genetic factors doesn't support the concept of 'destiny,' it merely shows that Humans are to an extent, like computers. Give them the data, hardware, software (genetics, experience, raising enviroment) and they'll give you the same answer for a specific calculation.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Hash:

I beg to differ, I think you're claiming influence is the same as pre-determination. Yes, I agree that your personality and experiences obviously <i>influence</i> the choices we make daily, but that does not mean that we have no choice to make decisions, and that our brain pre-determines everything for us.

Choice really is an illusion, you are presented with a choice to make but even though you may think each one has an equal chance of being picked, your already are predetermined to choose one because of how your personality has beend formed.

I don't buy that all, I do believe that we all have unique personalities that influence how we choose, but by no means does it force to choose one over the other, and we are able to make rational decisions for ourselves.

 

[Enderwiggin]

Heres why i belive what i belive, and the full thing....

I belive that your future is determined by what you do, and what other people around you do, In no way, is anything completly your choice, but never is it not your choice at all, In other words, you have an effect on what happens to you, but you also have half of the effect, Let me use an example...

A few years back, my house burn down, but, it wasnt my fault, but, i could have prevented it, it was created by bad old wiring, and if we had just changed that wiring, the fire never would have happened, but, also, if in the past, people knew that type of wiring could cause fires, it would never have happened, It may not be the best example, but its the best i can come up with right now...

But, also, it works both ways, You also affect other peoples futures, even if you have never spoken to, or heared of the person, you probably will affect their future in some way or another, Something you tell someone, they may tell someone else, and so on. So that is what i belive, agree with me, or disagree, i have said my full explanation of what i think....

 

[Hitokiri]

I'm not sure how it's possible to argue one of these over the other.

Anybody can say they are constantly making concious choices every day.

And anybody can say that no, you just think you are, but in fact you fall into a grander scheme of things that you can't possibly understand, only follow.

Neither can truly be proven, really. Telling people your view is fine, but is their really much point in trying to stomp on their argument, when neither argument can really be stomped on? It's just sort of futile.

To be honest I don't think about this stuff. I just try and live. If I had to choose I'd say choice, because I am what I make myself, at least that's what I hope.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Many people here seem to be disregarding the impulsive instinct that people have. We don't always think about our decisions, sometimes we just do things that we want to do without thinking about the consequences. Perhaps our brain subconsciously evaluates decisions, but people rarely make the decision which is best for them, they pick what's easy.

You can give someone a bunch of pairs of shoes, and tell them to pick which two they want, and then say, "Aha! You see? You were MEANT to pick those!" because it's already happened.

The fact that we live in a linear existence means that no linear being can really say for a fact, that anything was "meant" to be. They can say it was, because it happened, but really you have no proof that it was meant to happen, just because it did.

When someone tells you to pick a random number out of a hundred, perhaps you will indeed say a number that you usually say in response to that number. But what if someone asks you to keep doing it? 97! 45! 38! 05! 30! I don't believe that those choices were influenced by anything, I spontaneously decided to pick something, and I did. And that's how many things are just done.

Some people find comfort in fatalism, because no matter what they do, it's excusable, because they were meant to do it.

Does that mean you can't really condemn a murderer, because he was meant to murder, and you can't blame someone for being what they were meant to be?

No.

And in any case, someone making decisions based on their past experiences, and genetic factors doesn't support the concept of 'destiny,' it merely shows that Humans are to an extent, like computers. Give them the data, hardware, software (genetics, experience, raising enviroment) and they'll give you the same answer for a specific calculation.

That was beautiful. Alea was able to say what I couldn't put to words myself.

 

[GhostfaceKillah]

be free to do what you want, theres noone controlling what you do. if i wanted to, i could have chose not to post in this thread, but i did

 

[Oatemeal]

did anyone read what i said?

 

[lust]

destiny is made with choices, and so what you do now, determins your future

 

[SoulStriker]

It is impossible to fight this battle out, because neither argument can actually prove that the other dosen't exsist. Its only opinions vs. opinions, there will never be a true winner.

I think its basically all about your choices, but beware of the choices other people make.

Lust basically summed it all up. What you choose to do now will determine your future or "destiny"