Collateral Murder

[Dienekes]

If I was from Iraq... and my father, mother, brother, or sister were in a terrorist organization or joined a tangent militia... it would probably be in my best interest to disown them and leave the country. It comes to a point where you have to realize that some humans never really become intelligent and logical beings, so you're basically abandoning a rabid animal.

You say this after having lived in a completely different country and culture for the entirety of your short existence. Is it in your best interest to disown those you love and attempt to leave your country, and everything you've ever known, behind and attempt to start anew in a place that is more likely than not a little unwelcoming in order to distance yourself from an ideology that most of your countrymen share? Does this not also place yourself and your family in risky, albeit different situation? Or would it be safer to remain, steer minds away from the thought that you may be an American sympathizer, and hope everything goes alright, because the bottom line is you just want to live your life without getting ****ed with, and you're not exactly smitten with the fact that a foreign power is attempting to occupy your nation?

Is someone stupid and illogical for being a product of their environment? Is that all it takes? Is believing in something so strongly that you're willing to risk, and end your life for that cause so wrong? Wasn't that what the American Revolution was about? The Civil Rights movement? I don't agree that the end justifies the means in this scenario, but I don't think they're stupid for doing so. Misled, yes, but not utterly stupid.

The flipside with coalition forces who are in Iraq and Afghanistan is that most of these liberators never really developed into intelligent and logical beings either... the military was an escape route from civilization. It's not a completely terrible idea, don't underestimate my morals. It beats putting all of them into the prison system.

I'm sure with your extensive experience with military personnel that this is a completely logical statement to make. Again, you're making a judgment call based on extremely little information. The amazing thing about people is that, even thought our decisions may be similar, the reasons behind making them may differ greatly as a result of how complex the average human is, regardless of how many generalizations one makes about them, be they "Liberators", "Freedom Fighters" or just about anything else, really.

You should actually underestimate the morals of all the military strategists who decided that the Middle East wasn't developing fast enough for their defensive imperatives, the morals of all the economists who wanted an ominipotent global market, and piece together how most wars are either a methodology of demographical population control (Vietnam, etc.) or how the media engine is haphazardly, figuratively, and/or precisely relaying progressively complex propaganda towards preventing more 'idiots' from being introduced into our species.

I disagree with pretty much all of this, but especially the last part since I feel it would be in "their" (in quotation marks because I feel you're entering Jinx territory) best interest to not prevent, but encourage more "idiots" to be introduced into our species because idiots are more easily controllable than higher functioning individuals capable of thinking critically.

I mean... when you're told the economy is bad, terrorists are everywhere, and your president (global icon) is a foreign spy... how does your isoglucose sweetener taste?

The same.

*exhales*

At least we're getting closer and closer to a blunt society... less ideological poetry/religion... that has been backlashing random civilizations into seperatist hives of spectral mutiny since humans could read/write.

No, no we're not. Manipulation of words, ideas, people, information, statistics, etc plays a much larger role today than most care to admit, but the treachery is there and it is widespread and will continue to pervert humanity until people consciously decide to start thinking for themselves rather than accept what they see and hear due to the sheer simplicity of not having to think critically, outside of the box or hurt someone's feelings. It's all about convenience.

/rant

Words.

 

[Nuttzy]

in b4 boom headshot.

 

[Dienekes]

I don't see how anyone can argue these soldiers intellectual or emotional maturity. Have you seen the video? Listened to the **** they speak? They're not taking it seriously enough.

And I don't understand how you can pass judgement on them when the closest thing to war you've ever been is Call of Duty. You'll never understand, because you'll never share their experiences.

 

[Spunky]

You all just got learned by the Corps and stuff.

 

[Painkiller]

No comment.. o.o
So this is war?

 

[Dienekes]

This is war as viewed from the general safety of an aerial vehicle. It only gets worse on the ground.

 

[Dienekes]

To be fair, the closest I've come isn't Call of Duty. The closest I've come is trying to guide a protest when it turns into a riot. Wasn't fun watching a man get trampled by the crowd running in fear.

I see your point though, I don't want to claim I can put myself in their position because I can't. But it doesn't sound to me like they're going through any type of personal trauama, they're just treating it like a game because there's no challenge involved in fighting in an Apache against desperate, mostly untrained pissed off and poverty stricken nationalists.

Riots and full-scale wars are just a tiny bit different, in my experience, anyway. The tactics and ROEs and weaponry used on a riot are completely different than those used in a warzone. Unless you're using a fence stabilizer or something inside of minimum range, you know you're probably going to make it out of there. That's just me, though, so don't take offense as that isn't my intention.

It doesn't sound like they're going through any sort of trauma? Alright, I can buy that. That is, if I completely ignore every aspect of the life of a modern-day soldier/marine, of course. But if we're going simply by tone of voice, then sure, they seem normal. One might argue that that sound of normalcy is due to their training, and the fact that war has become their "normal" setting, however. But again, I may be over analyzing this based on personal experiences.

That said, you greatly underestimate the people we had been and continue to fight in Iraq. They aren't untrained, and most of them aren't even from said country. They're religious zealots and idealogical warriors from abroad who were told Iraq would be the place where they could make a stand against a superpower and succeed in mortal combat. Al Qaeda is probably the best funded terrorist group in the world, and because of that, they're able to build training and recruiting centers across the world, especially in southeast asia. Whatever they want, they have. If they were just random civilians walking around with AKs, they wouldn't have been able to do very much since most Iraqis don't even know how to adjust their sights, let alone shoot straight.

As for being in a chopper, it's the safest place, and also one of the most dangerous. A single hit will take you out of the sky, and from that altitude, your chances of survival are minimal. But there is a certain coldness and callousness about them that you won't find in ground pounders, because they're mentally distant from the action going on below them. Everyone looks the same and everything seems so distant.