Censorship In Cartoons

[Checkplease]

I Think that the people who are obsessed that violence comes from violent cartoons and games are looking at the wrong problem. Most young kids watch cartoons and lots of these cartoons are from other countries that dont have censored cartoons like America does. Lemme see If I can give you an example. These days when we get a cartoon (mainly ones from Japan) there are censored down from our American cartoon Channels. Lets say that a kid sees an American dubbing of a Japanese show like Cowboy Beebop and he sees that when you shoot somone that all they do is get white eyes and fall down...hes gonna think that when you shoot somone all they do is just fall down. In the uncensored version there was probobly a huge spray of blood and brains instead of him just falling down. Now a kid seeing this huge spray will be like "OMG that gross" Where in the censored version all he sees if another guy just fall down.

Do you see what the problem is. Kids are getting in these cartoons a sense of unreality when they see people get really hurt. Most companies censor out most of the blood in these shows. Dont you think that If kids saw all of this blood that they would think twice about playing around with guns or other dangerous weapons with their friends. They see all the time on cartoons that people get shot and all they do is kinda shake it off or just fall down. Dont you think they need to see what really happens?

Looney Toons is the exception. These are a lot less realistic than the animes of our time. Its easy for kids to distinguish the difference from a bunny shooting a duck than a guy in a black trench coat shooting a bunch of people with a machine gun.

This just came up in my mind yesterday and I thought I should share it with you guys. It makes sense to uncensor these animes for kids to show what happens when you get shot by a shotty at point blank. (ow)

 

[Optimus Prime]

I Think that the people who are obsessed that violence comes from violent cartoons and games are looking at the wrong problem. Most young kids watch cartoons and lots of these cartoons are from other countries that dont have censored cartoons like America does. Lemme see If I can give you an example. These days when we get a cartoon (mainly ones from Japan) there are censored down from our American cartoon Channels. Lets say that a kid sees an American dubbing of a Japanese show like Cowboy Beebop and he sees that when you shoot somone that all they do is get white eyes and fall down...hes gonna think that when you shoot somone all they do is just fall down. In the uncensored version there was probobly a huge spray of blood and brains instead of him just falling down. Now a kid seeing this huge spray will be like "OMG that gross" Where in the censored version all he sees if another guy just fall down.

Do you see what the problem is. Kids are getting in these cartoons a sense of unreality when they see people get really hurt. Most companies censor out most of the blood in these shows. Dont you think that If kids saw all of this blood that they would think twice about playing around with guns or other dangerous weapons with their friends. They see all the time on cartoons that people get shot and all they do is kinda shake it off or just fall down. Dont you think they need to see what really happens?

Looney Toons is the exception. These are a lot less realistic than the animes of our time. Its easy for kids to distinguish the difference from a bunny shooting a duck than a guy in a black trench coat shooting a bunch of people with a machine gun.

This just came up in my mind yesterday and I thought I should share it with you guys. It makes sense to uncensor these animes for kids to show what happens when you get shot by a shotty at point blank. (ow)

So you're saying that, if a kid sees a cartoon character shoot someone else, the chances of them immitating that is dependent on the amount of gore?

If you're arguing that kids get a sense of unreality from a CARTOON, a ****ing cartoon, that isn't real, it's ink on paper, then you are living in a sense of unreality my friend.

If a child goes around immitating cartoons by shooting people because they think that they're only going to fall down, the parents did something wrong.

There are enough movies/shows on tv to make up for the lack of gore in cartoons. So to blame censorship of cartoons for violence in this world is just stupid.

 

[Sunslayer]

Any person who is DUMB enough to imitate something he saw on Tv/Movie/Game, diserves whatever fate had in mind for him. I play GTA, and I never had the godamn urge to go around on a killing spree, or take a rocket launcher and blow up cars. The idiots that go around and do stuff like that are a menace to society and i'd feel safer if they were locked up in a basement for the rest of their miserable, idiotic lives.

As for the censorship, I'd say no to it. I don't feel that I should see a bloodless DBZ because some stupid parents went around and cried how it might affect their children. Here's a clue about how to stop your retarted child from jumping off a cliff, thinking that he could fly.

DON'T LET HIM SEE THAT SHOW!

Unless the parent is so incompitent, in which case the child deserves a better parent.

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

It is no one's fault but the parents. I grew up watching Optimus Prime and his big-ass rifle blowing holes in the Decepticons left and right and didn't ever have the urge to imitate it in real life.

The thing is, my parents were also there. Parents nowadays in America...they don't even ****ing raise their kids anymore. Plop them down in front of the idiot box and call it even, work your overtime so you can get digital cable and afford yoru ****ing drugs...

...Did I mentiona that adults disgust me?

 

[Engar]

Uh, I watched Tom and Jerry as a kid but thus far I've had no urges to smack the cat over the head with a frying pan..

I agree with what's been said before, cases of people reacting to the violence in games/tv/cartoons are more to do with children being abandoned to these things by their parents.

Some children, not the majority by far, suffer mental illnessess that make them particularly receptive to this sort of input. But saying that the responsibility falls on the producers of said programmes is ridiculous, the real blame will alway lie with the parents who allow their children to watch these programmes knowing that it could affect them in this way.

 

[DiebytheSword]

I couldn't agree with one point Pride made more . . . You can't expect to raise a nation on dual incomes and have stable children. I didn't have my dad around 90% of the time, and I belive that messed me up a little.

Parents want a scapegoat for bad parenting, and Joe Lieberman has shown them the way

 

[Checkplease]

there are some people who see the violence on TV as fun and they playfight and maybe as they get older they use guns and stuff like that. Dont tell me youve never been so pissed that you wanted to just blow a hole in somone?! Some people feed off these impulse emotions and therefore make bad choices. Hell if a young kid like 10 years old saw a censored version of a very bloody anime they may think that "hey this is cool" And maybe in their subconcious think that killing people will end up like on the show. Little or no blood.

Another thing I want to address I noticed that people for a long time have said that violent video games cause kids to kill people...Here is a FACT. Most of these games come from Japan...can you guess how many shootings japan has a year? ITS FREAKIN 8 ON AVERAGE!! In the US its about...and this made me really think....11,300 SHOOTINGS A YEAR!! It would take japan 1,114 YEARS TO CATCH UP TO THE US IF THE US STOOD STILL IN TIME. So I dont know how in the world they can say that video games cause people to kill others. Its probobly somthing in the American water...damn sea monkeys.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

I assume you got that number from Michael Moore's documentary on crime in the US. It was a good documentary, and he never brought up cartoons, but I do sort of think it's a good point. We all know, even when we're four, that if you walk off of a cliff you will fall immediately. Nobody thinks that if you run off of a cliff with an anvil you will hover like Wile E. Coyote. On the flipside, little kids that watch realistically violent cartoons and movies will get the wrong ideas if the parents aren't there to teach them otherwise.

Checkplease wasn't talking about kids immitating cartoons because they are cartoons and kids like cartoons; I'm not sure where people got that point. He was trying to say that little kids (I assume, like the 4 to 10 years old or something like that) don't know anatomy, they don't know forensics, they don't know what makes the bullets fly out of the gun as fast as they do, and they don't know exactly how it hurts another person (breaking blood vessles/muscle tissues/puncturing organs/etc). If there aren't any parents around to tell them the difference between a bullet entering your body and making you bleed to death and a bullet hitting a cartoon character making him stagger, or bouncing off his armor, or whatever the heck it is, the kid could get the wrong idea. Keep in mind we're talking about really young kids here.

Movies are guilty of this stuff too. Movies aren't cartoons, but they can convey the message to kids that bullets aren't that dangerous (like when the hero gets shot 4 times and still gets the bad guy) or whatever. Do they? Most of the time I don't think they do. Most of the time I think parents make it clear to kids that guns kill people and most of the time kids are smart enough to know the difference between a movie and reality. It's when they aren't smart enough, or parentally guided enough, that they have these issues of interpretation.

I don't think uncensoring cartoons would fix anything though... I think it has everything to do with parents explaining reality to their children.

 

[FreeDoM]

Everyone wants a reason to blame someone else.

 

[NeLo]

It is no one's fault but the parents. I grew up watching Optimus Prime and his big-ass rifle blowing holes in the Decepticons left and right and didn't ever have the urge to imitate it in real life.

The thing is, my parents were also there. Parents nowadays in America...they don't even ****ing raise their kids anymore. Plop them down in front of the idiot box and call it even, work your overtime so you can get digital cable and afford yoru ****ing drugs...

...Did I mentiona that adults disgust me?

See i agree with Saiyan there. Its not shows or any type of video game that makes the children of society today be violent. Its the parent's responsibility as a parent to teach their children NOT to be violent and NOT to smoke and NOT treat ppl like dirt. These "programs" that try and stop the violent games/shows are most likely parents themselves and they feel that they shouldn't take care of their kids. They blame others for their responsibility as parents to teach them not to do things. I absolutely respect adults that earn it but for those who are just lazy, i have no respect for them at all. If your not going to grow and do the right thing as in teach your child to be safe from harmful products/people. So for all those parents who are lazy....GROW UP! :no:

 

[Enix]

Well all of this does make sense...in a way. If a kids sees blood in a cartoon there like "cool!". But if they dont see the blood there like "this show sucks!". And most of them dont go back to the bloody cartoons. I have seen many kids get influenced by cartoons, its stupid, yes..but there only kids, they dont know better, The parents are some to blame. But you cant blame them 100%.Kids who feel loved tend to listen to there parents, and a good parent wil usually tell the child not to watch such shows. So you gotta understand the blame for shootings and stuff is split down the middle. And dont even get me started on video games, gta3 started enought problems, and vice city made it worse. But rockstar has agreed to take police shooting and hookers out of there next GTA game. But cartoons and video games arent the main reason there are shootings, its just stupid people, its actually stupid to blame video games and cartoons for shootings.

 

[NeLo]

Well all of this does make sense...in a way. If a kids sees blood in a cartoon there like "cool!". But if they dont see the blood there like "this show sucks!". And most of them dont go back to the bloody cartoons. I have seen many kids get influenced by cartoons, its stupid, yes..but there only kids, they dont know better, The parents are some to blame. But you cant blame them 100%.Kids who feel loved tend to listen to there parents, and a good parent wil usually tell the child not to watch such shows. So you gotta understand the blame for shootings and stuff is split down the middle. And dont even get me started on video games, gta3 started enought problems, and vice city made it worse. But rockstar has agreed to take police shooting and hookers out of there next GTA game.

Sry to say but it IsS 100% Full Responsibility Of The Parents To Teach Their Kids NOT To Do Bad Things! If the kid wont listen to the parents then it is the parents responsibility to help the child to realize what that child is doing is wrong. Now there comes a problem where the parent has different views and thats ok BUT in general EVERY parent should know that drugs/sex (promiscuious)/and violence (in reality not in movies...difference there is...ITS A MOVIE!) also not to be so hatred to others. Now how can you not say its "somewhat" the parents fault. No its 100% all the way totally fully and completely their fault! Children are not going to wake up one day and say ill think ill kill someone for the hell of it... Cmon think!

Ok now parents today were once kids right? well some of them..well most of them are good parents i do agree on that but for those bad parents out there, THEIR parents were bad, then the parent's parents were bad, etc etc. But lets see here if the child doesnt have a parent to listen too well dont you think they should seek help? Or for that matter someone should talk to that particular child and try to help them. But a question comes to mind...that lonely child has parent(s) right? Well who do you think its to blame??? The parents!

 

[Enix]

umm....have you forgoten about friend? Friends also influence kids to do stupid stuff. Yes, if the parents teach them good morals this is less likly to happen. But kids wont always listen to there parents. Bad friends can influence good kids just as much as parents. So no, i dont believe the parents deserve all the blame.

 

[NeLo]

umm....have you forgoten about friend? Friends also influence kids to do stupid stuff. Yes, if the parents teach them good morals this is less likly to happen. But kids wont always listen to there parents. Bad friends can influence good kids just as much as parents. So no, i dont believe the parents deserve all the blame.

Then its the parents job to get involved as in KNOW whats going on in their child's life. isnt it? Yes there will be bad friends,(btw i didnt forget about peer pressure), but like i said THINK. Its the parent's job to know whats going on in their child's life and if there any problems parents should in fact HELP!

here let me help you understand this better...Say you have kids right. Ok its your job to help your kids grow up and be better than you. Thats what all parents want, to have their kids have a better life no? Now lets say 1 of your kids got influenced by a bad kid. Now you see signs of your kid doing bad things or say bad things no? You WILL want to know what's wrong with your kid. No kid can hide their feelings or what they are doing. It will eventually come out. Now if a parent sees this and asks no questions about their child then thats what i call a Neg. parent. Then therefore that particular child may in fact being doing wrong.

 

[Enix]

ok ok, you must uinderstand this. Like cucumba said parents are about 90% to blame. There are many other things that can effect a childs train of thought. Parents arent god so, no they cant do everything. You cant expect your parents to be superman, yes they should know who your hanging out with but kids also dont want to be on a short leesh. But as i have said many times, parents are not all to blame. Just try to think of all the many other pressures a kid has to go throught every day, a parent should be tehre for the children but always cant. So dont blame the parents 100% dude.

 

[NeLo]

ok ok, you must uinderstand this. Like cucumba said parents are about 90% to blame. There are many other things that can effect a childs train of thought. Parents arent god so, no they cant do everything. You cant expect your parents to be superman, yes they should know who your hanging out with but kids also dont want to be on a short leesh. But as i have said many times, parents are not all to blame. Just try to think of all the many other pressures a kid has to go throught every day, a parent should be tehre for the children but always cant. So dont blame the parents 100% dude.

No crap they are not God. Let me tell you something...No kids dont like to be kept on a short leesh your right on that. But the end result will benifit them! Now kids will make mistakes no doubt but they will learn why and what their parents said this and that for their protection. Thats how i learned. I was a rebel from my parents until i started to see that what they were saying was 100% correct and i suffered the consequences of my mistakes and it sucked. I now know what to do and what NOT to do. But wouldnt you think the advice of the parents would sink through those kids and therefore the kids wouldnt have too much to worry about. Now i will reduce it down to 95% of parents responsibility. That 5% is more or less religious which most definately helps me get through the day but i remember how some kids are not religious so i understand that. But what else would effect that child that the parents could not help them in? Lets say divorced parents. Sure that would devistate the kid but wouldnt you think all the advice and good nature of the parents to the kid would help? and i really disagree on parents cant be there..thats a load crap. parents would go to the end of the world to help their kids no? So what else would effect the kid that he would want to go out and kill somone?

 

[Enix]

possibly anything else they respect, such as a friend a brother other family members [you gotta be in a messed up family to understand that]. there are many other things that fan effect children. But since ther arent that many children with guns and actually USING THEM, there is nothing to argue about. If this was such a big issue in a america this debate would actually be usful but since this is not a big problem, why debate? there was only a hand full of childish shootings in school that broke out, but the shooting rate has almost disappeared. But it was so bad that metal detectors where placed in school entrances, guards where put on duty, see-through back-packs where required. But now most of that has gone away so this "problem" is usless to talk about.

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

My parents didn't even know most of my friend's last names, addresses, phone numbers, or backgrounds when I was a kid (I'm 21 now). Because they WEREN'T HERE. I mean it's that simple. But I still knew not to shoot people, or kill people, or hurt people.

"Dont tell me youve never been so pissed that you wanted to just blow a hole in somone?!" -- Yeah, but that's because I was pissed at that particular person for a viable and mature reason, and I didn't literally want to kill them, ever. I didn't want to blow a hole in them because someone blew a hole in some character on TV.

To a degree, the videogames part, I can at least understand the concern. I mean, we are technically getting enjoyment out of simulations of violence and reprehensible behavior. But any ****ing kid who plays GTA and giggles with glee at the parts where you shoot the police or bang the hookers, is a kid that's too immature to be playing the game and Mom and Dad should have never frigging bought it for him in the first place.

In this day and age there's no excuse to be uneducated about the content of the stuff your kids watch and play. Ratings on every box and commercial...clerks required to card now for mature games...and the ****ing INTERNET, where you type in the name of a game and get fifty million reviews of it and can see pretty much exactly what type of content is present therein.

There should be NO EXCUSE FOR BAD PARENTING. Take the Columbine kids for example: they blamed frigging DOOM for that, before they even QUESTIONED the parents...Klebold's parents, when questioned by police, said, "well, we heard a lot of glass smashing and drilling in the garage a night or two ago, but we didn't think anything of it." WTF--and it's Carmack's fault? In one of their rooms, they found tons of weapons and live ammo just ****ing LYING AROUND. Gimme a break--those parents were completely oblivious, and they didn't even bat an eye at them, cause Lieberman's people were on it like a pack of scolded dogs. They were like, "didn't you NOTICE anything wrong with your son? Any of the WEAPONS lying around in his BEDROOM!?" And they were just like, [shrug], and everyone left them alone.

Man, **** those dudes. **** them right to hell. Like we gamers don't have it rough enough already with the ****ing man trying to keep us down? ****...couple of wimps, in the end, that's their legacy. Good job, *******s--you made it EVEN HARDER for a kid who dresses like a lunatic to be taken seriously. Wasn't that the opposite of their goal? Did they even have a ****ing goal? NO--because they were MORONS. And now WE have to pay for THEIR idiotic mistakes. Bull****.

Incidentally...censorship in cartoons is pretty weak, but I don't mind it so much in anime, because anime is usually full of pointless sexual crapola that has no place anywhere in the show, and it tends to screw up the whole vibe. Censorship in DBZ in particular, I must say, I don't really mind. We're not missing out on much in the way of gore--especially because once Cell and Buu came in, it got more bloody (Vegeta spent most of the Buu saga looking like a pile of raw meat). THe sex stuff, I think would hurt the integrity of the show's story. The japanese, they're into that sort of thing. But personally I think I can speak for everyone when I say Master Roshi falling over while reading a porno has no place in the middle of say, the Cell/Gohan fight. I take DBZ very seriously, and I guess that's just my own thing, but I know that no one on the planet would take it seriously if we still had all the pointless little scenes where Bulma flashes someone, etc. still in it.

But still. Man, the games/media causes violent children thing annoys the ever-loving piss out of me. It's the parents' fault and there's no two goddamned ways about it.

 

[NeLo]

My parents didn't even know most of my friend's last names, addresses, phone numbers, or backgrounds when I was a kid (I'm 21 now). Because they WEREN'T HERE. I mean it's that simple. But I still knew not to shoot people, or kill people, or hurt people.

"Dont tell me youve never been so pissed that you wanted to just blow a hole in somone?!" -- Yeah, but that's because I was pissed at that particular person for a viable and mature reason, and I didn't literally want to kill them, ever. I didn't want to blow a hole in them because someone blew a hole in some character on TV.

To a degree, the videogames part, I can at least understand the concern. I mean, we are technically getting enjoyment out of simulations of violence and reprehensible behavior. But any ****ing kid who plays GTA and giggles with glee at the parts where you shoot the police or bang the hookers, is a kid that's too immature to be playing the game and Mom and Dad should have never frigging bought it for him in the first place.

In this day and age there's no excuse to be uneducated about the content of the stuff your kids watch and play. Ratings on every box and commercial...clerks required to card now for mature games...and the ****ing INTERNET, where you type in the name of a game and get fifty million reviews of it and can see pretty much exactly what type of content is present therein.

There should be NO EXCUSE FOR BAD PARENTING. Take the Columbine kids for example: they blamed frigging DOOM for that, before they even QUESTIONED the parents...Klebold's parents, when questioned by police, said, "well, we heard a lot of glass smashing and drilling in the garage a night or two ago, but we didn't think anything of it." WTF--and it's Carmack's fault? In one of their rooms, they found tons of weapons and live ammo just ****ing LYING AROUND. Gimme a break--those parents were completely oblivious, and they didn't even bat an eye at them, cause Lieberman's people were on it like a pack of scolded dogs. They were like, "didn't you NOTICE anything wrong with your son? Any of the WEAPONS lying around in his BEDROOM!?" And they were just like, [shrug], and everyone left them alone.

Man, **** those dudes. **** them right to hell. Like we gamers don't have it rough enough already with the ****ing man trying to keep us down? ****...couple of wimps, in the end, that's their legacy. Good job, *******s--you made it EVEN HARDER for a kid who dresses like a lunatic to be taken seriously. Wasn't that the opposite of their goal? Did they even have a ****ing goal? NO--because they were MORONS. And now WE have to pay for THEIR idiotic mistakes. Bull****.

Incidentally...censorship in cartoons is pretty weak, but I don't mind it so much in anime, because anime is usually full of pointless sexual crapola that has no place anywhere in the show, and it tends to screw up the whole vibe. Censorship in DBZ in particular, I must say, I don't really mind. We're not missing out on much in the way of gore--especially because once Cell and Buu came in, it got more bloody (Vegeta spent most of the Buu saga looking like a pile of raw meat). THe sex stuff, I think would hurt the integrity of the show's story. The japanese, they're into that sort of thing. But personally I think I can speak for everyone when I say Master Roshi falling over while reading a porno has no place in the middle of say, the Cell/Gohan fight. I take DBZ very seriously, and I guess that's just my own thing, but I know that no one on the planet would take it seriously if we still had all the pointless little scenes where Bulma flashes someone, etc. still in it.

But still. Man, the games/media causes violent children thing annoys the ever-loving piss out of me. It's the parents' fault and there's no two goddamned ways about it.

...Nuff said... :yes:

Btw Raik...it will only effect the child if the child either doesnt talk to his/her parents OR The PARENTS DONT TALK TO THEIR CHILDREN! Mainly a child wont talk to their parents unless the parents talk to them first...hmm now what does that mean. And i've already told you about friends. Now about brothers...dont you think the child will say "Well...Stan said it was ok.." RED FLAG to the parent.

 

[Enix]

My parents didn't even know most of my friend's last names, addresses, phone numbers, or backgrounds when I was a kid (I'm 21 now). Because they WEREN'T HERE. I mean it's that simple. But I still knew not to shoot people, or kill people, or hurt people.

"Dont tell me youve never been so pissed that you wanted to just blow a hole in somone?!" -- Yeah, but that's because I was pissed at that particular person for a viable and mature reason, and I didn't literally want to kill them, ever. I didn't want to blow a hole in them because someone blew a hole in some character on TV.

To a degree, the videogames part, I can at least understand the concern. I mean, we are technically getting enjoyment out of simulations of violence and reprehensible behavior. But any ****ing kid who plays GTA and giggles with glee at the parts where you shoot the police or bang the hookers, is a kid that's too immature to be playing the game and Mom and Dad should have never frigging bought it for him in the first place.

In this day and age there's no excuse to be uneducated about the content of the stuff your kids watch and play. Ratings on every box and commercial...clerks required to card now for mature games...and the ****ing INTERNET, where you type in the name of a game and get fifty million reviews of it and can see pretty much exactly what type of content is present therein.

There should be NO EXCUSE FOR BAD PARENTING. Take the Columbine kids for example: they blamed frigging DOOM for that, before they even QUESTIONED the parents...Klebold's parents, when questioned by police, said, "well, we heard a lot of glass smashing and drilling in the garage a night or two ago, but we didn't think anything of it." WTF--and it's Carmack's fault? In one of their rooms, they found tons of weapons and live ammo just ****ing LYING AROUND. Gimme a break--those parents were completely oblivious, and they didn't even bat an eye at them, cause Lieberman's people were on it like a pack of scolded dogs. They were like, "didn't you NOTICE anything wrong with your son? Any of the WEAPONS lying around in his BEDROOM!?" And they were just like, [shrug], and everyone left them alone.

Man, **** those dudes. **** them right to hell. Like we gamers don't have it rough enough already with the ****ing man trying to keep us down? ****...couple of wimps, in the end, that's their legacy. Good job, *******s--you made it EVEN HARDER for a kid who dresses like a lunatic to be taken seriously. Wasn't that the opposite of their goal? Did they even have a ****ing goal? NO--because they were MORONS. And now WE have to pay for THEIR idiotic mistakes. Bull****.

Incidentally...censorship in cartoons is pretty weak, but I don't mind it so much in anime, because anime is usually full of pointless sexual crapola that has no place anywhere in the show, and it tends to screw up the whole vibe. Censorship in DBZ in particular, I must say, I don't really mind. We're not missing out on much in the way of gore--especially because once Cell and Buu came in, it got more bloody (Vegeta spent most of the Buu saga looking like a pile of raw meat). THe sex stuff, I think would hurt the integrity of the show's story. The japanese, they're into that sort of thing. But personally I think I can speak for everyone when I say Master Roshi falling over while reading a porno has no place in the middle of say, the Cell/Gohan fight. I take DBZ very seriously, and I guess that's just my own thing, but I know that no one on the planet would take it seriously if we still had all the pointless little scenes where Bulma flashes someone, etc. still in it.

But still. Man, the games/media causes violent children thing annoys the ever-loving piss out of me. It's the parents' fault and there's no two goddamned ways about it.

umm...can i get a hallelujah? lol, that all makes sence. amen, preach it! :laff: