B2's true potential

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I did not write this. It is quoted from another site, which I do not know the name off (Got if off of another site that quoted it off of that site)

said:
I cannot even begin to concieve of how Dimps and Atari did this to themselves, but they did. They took a decent fighting game and convinced a horde of fanatical believers that it was worthless. Why they have done this is utterly beyond me.

Budokai 2 is not the poor fighting game, good DBZ simulation that it has been toted as. It has complex, difficult combos, crazy mind games, excellent pressure set ups, and disturbingly effective change-ups. But no one knows about them. They think the game boils down to block, (p,p,p,p,e). And why not? The official strategy guide mentions nothing about any of this. The game's support site mentions nothing about it. These features appear in no gaming mags. The tutorial doesn't mention them. The computer doesn't make use of them unless you set it on the highest difficulty level, and then only occasionally.

At its heart, the Budokai 2 fighting engine is driven by guard-cancels. They can be used to do everything from complex combos to crazy pressure and mind games, and make safe pokes perfectly possible. I'm sure some of you are shaking your heads in disbelief right now, but I ask that you hear me out - I promise to explain myself.

Each character has a number of attack strings that can be charged up by holding down the last button. Tapping guard while it's charging cancels you out of the move and returns you immediately back to neutral. This feature is everything in this game, and if you play through a standard match without using it, you've never really played Budokai. First, I'll get into a description of combos.

There are three ways to do combos in Budokai 2:

1) Stuns
2) Resets
3) Juggles

The "stun" associated with your blows is the time it leaves your enemy reeling from the force of it. Stun increases from the back. If you hit your enemy with a move that has lots more stun than the time it takes you to recover, you can continue on with another string of attacks after it. For example, if you pick Dabura, and do (>p,p,p,p), he will recover while they are still stunned. You can link this into, say, his (p,p,p,p,e), or a lot of other nifty stuff. Canceling is important for this feature because it lessens your recovery time. You can stun an enemy before a cancel, and then recover super quickly to continue hitting them, say with goku's (>p,k,k). Hold down the last kick, and cancel it, and then follow up with whatever.

Resets are more complicated, and require you to get behind the enemy. Getting behind them is easily accomplished after canceling into a stun; if you use the dash command to do the cancel, you can get behind them before they can recover. This gives you additional stun to work with, which makes a lot of combos that normally don't connect work. All you people complaining "I can't get Final Flash to connect...Special Beam Cannon...ad infinitum," this is the official way to do it. They connect when comboed into properly, but you're right - if you don't know what you're doing, you normally can't connect them.

Eh, but I digress. Back to resets. When your enemy attempts to block while you're behind them, they spin around really fast and get into position. If you hit them during this time, it resets them, taking the combo counter back down to 0 and turning the damage back up to full, as well as spinning them back around again. This is really powerful, allowing virtually every character to pull off one combo kills if they guess right on the reset. The problem is, if they don't try to block, it won't work, and you'll find the rest of your combo whiffing due to the timing difference.

Juggles are the most common kind of combos to do. Smack them up into the air, then bat them around while they're up there. Fun!
This requires timing, but is intuitive, and most average players can already do it to some extent.



http://www.shoryuken.com/forums Has a more in depth explanation!


For some videos of real combos, and to see the power of this system in full view, please check out the combos and associated video clips at this SRK thread:

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, onto actual game play - change ups, mind games, and pressure, as promised. This also revolves the cancel engine.

The trick is, there are a million ways to defeat a blocking opponent, and you need an easy way to set them up. They are all set up perfectly off a single cancel, which is where the fun stuff starts.

Let's say you take Goku, and get your opponent to block your (k,k,k,k). You start charging the last (k). Now, what are your options? You could:

Cancel into a throw.
Cancel into a transformation, knocking him back and prepping a combo.
Cancel into a (>>k/p), for a super close range dash attack, which breaks their guard and preps a combo.
Cancel into a charged (<p+k) or (>p+k), depending on whether you think they'll block or try to attack, and cancel it at will for the psych out. If you land the charge (<p+k), juggle your heart out.
Cancel into another chargeable chain, say (>p,k,k), and repeat, to pour on the pressure and punish if they try to escape.
Cancel into a sidestep to bait an attack.
Cancel into a block in anticipation of one.
Cancel into a move with good recovery, say (p) or other generally safe poke, and throw immediately afterwards, or else launch into another string if you think they'll anticipate the throw.
Cancel into a backwards dash, (>e). In all likelihood, you get block damage. At best, they see what they think is a chance to get out, and eat Kamehameha. You can very the timing to catch them if they try to sidestep.
Don't cancel, and let the charged up blow cut through their guard and knock them down, or into the air for an easy juggle.

The beauty of instant recovery is that there's no moment where you're vulnerable. In addition to these options, many characters have chains that inflict guardbreak if blocked (Majin Buu, Teen Gohan, etc.), which prep a combo as well, and roughly half of the characters have chains where the death blow part can be charged up. For instance, if you don't bother to cancel Videls Falcon Rush, but let the launcher become fully charged, it will slice through their guard and they will eat the special move, which is much more painful than a generally unimpressive uncancelled kick or punch.

Escaping this kind of pressure game is difficult. You never know what they're going to do - your opponent has lots of options, and I'd judge your odds of guessing right at around 30%. Try to counter-throw, in the hopes that they'll go for it? Try to counter attack, in the hopes that they mess up? Try to dash away, in the hopes that they won't immediately pursue the offensive, but will side step or cancel into a block or somesuch? Look for an opening to transform, which (if he stayed close enough) will knock him back and reverse your fortunes? If you guess wrong, you eat combo. If you guess right, you've set yourself on the offensive, and now it's your turn to force him to do the guessing.

A match between two good Budokai players is a lot of fun, and very deep, and lightning quick. The first person to screw up eats a lot of damage, and resets the whole thing. Then it's back to poking, prodding, and psyching out, with both sides vying desperately to get on the offensive, where they have the decisive advantage. Two screw ups usually signals the end of the game, and sometimes it only takes one.

I've said a lot of good things about the game, and all in all I do believe it's a good game. It has it's flaws, and I think there are better fighting game out there, but this one seems to get it's reputation purely from a lack of knowledge about the game. And it's all the fault of the people that brought you the game, for giving no one any reason to think the game supported anything like this.

You know what Atari needs to do? Launch a support website that really shows the series off. Start up a stir in the fighting game community. Let people know what the game is all about. Put up video clips that show how the game should be played, and host tournaments and whatnot.

If anyone actually reads this, I am officially impressed. Thanks for sticking around for the rant


written by Goryus from the Atari forum and not from me
So there you have it folks. That is Budokai 2's true potential. It takes practice, but what doesnt? This also adds more depth into the game itself. You can post your thoughts about this, but whatever you say you cant argue... If played properly Budokai 2 can truely be a hard good fighting game.
 
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Heh.. I can't argue? Just watch me.

This one feature doesn't make up for the rest of the retardation that the game emits. You can't say "oh if you haven't used this ONE feature, then you haven't played it". A game shouldn't rely on one thing to make it or break it. It doesn't speed the game up any, it doesn't suddenly make the blocking system any more complex than it was before. The movement is still sluggish, and the fact that every character is more or less the same, with the exception of appearance, is still present.

Also, the way he describes using the cancel feature right after a stun-hit, sounds like an exploit to me. If it's a cancel, then it's obviously meant to cancel the attack, not to let you recover quicker even after you attack. Also he mentiones that the methods he suggests aren't in the book, which makes it sound even more like an exploit.

Lets make a list of what makes this game a terrible fighter:
- Slow/Sluggish movement (Enviromental effects and interactive levels are barely put to use becuase of this)
- characters are all very similar
- simple blocking system
- no parry system
- cinematic moves(just my opinion, but fighters should be fast-paced, and I don't want the game doing my moves for me.)
- NO POWERSTRUGGLING (this is a damn DBZ game... and you tell me you can't powerstruggle?)
- Can't jump or fly (.... -_-)
- Dragon world mode ( wtf... is this..)

I don't care what this guy says, feature or no feature, it doesn't make the game any better.
 
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wow that reminds me on dbz hyper dimension,i needed alot of time until iv discovered features like flash-battles or the blast-battles in the sky.
but yeah budokai series still sucks.why cant they just make the gameplay like in dbz supersonic warriors buhu!
 
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No matter what, im still VERY disappointed with budokai 2, there was no effort put into it, i mean, they used the same stupid sounds, music, and models. The dragon mode thing was queer, the voice overs made me angry [just very stupid], and there was no story mode [which was my favorite part of budokai 1]. I mean yea, the fussions where cool and all the new characters where, but it was boring, didnt really feel like a dbz game [like Dragonball gt: final bout]. I really hope if they make a budokai 3, its alot better then this.
 
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Phatslugga said:
Heh.. I can't argue? Just watch me.

This one feature doesn't make up for the rest of the retardation that the game emits. You can't say "oh if you haven't used this ONE feature, then you haven't played it". A game shouldn't rely on one thing to make it or break it. It doesn't speed the game up any, it doesn't suddenly make the blocking system any more complex than it was before. The movement is still sluggish, and the fact that every character is more or less the same, with the exception of appearance, is still present.

Also, the way he describes using the cancel feature right after a stun-hit, sounds like an exploit to me. If it's a cancel, then it's obviously meant to cancel the attack, not to let you recover quicker even after you attack. Also he mentiones that the methods he suggests aren't in the book, which makes it sound even more like an exploit.

Lets make a list of what makes this game a terrible fighter:
- Slow/Sluggish movement (Enviromental effects and interactive levels are barely put to use becuase of this)
- characters are all very similar
- simple blocking system
- no parry system
- cinematic moves(just my opinion, but fighters should be fast-paced, and I don't want the game doing my moves for me.)
- NO POWERSTRUGGLING (this is a damn DBZ game... and you tell me you can't powerstruggle?)
- Can't jump or fly (.... -_-)
- Dragon world mode ( wtf... is this..)

I don't care what this guy says, feature or no feature, it doesn't make the game any better.
I'm pretty sure this is an exploit. And you ALL know how I feel about exploits. Allt his dude seems to be doing, is telling you this great way to **** up your opponent's groove fo fighting within the game's normal framework.
 

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