Atheists, my frustrations, and your opinions :P

[Chakra-X]

Oh god I laughed so hard



The Bible was written by the Romans to control the peasant workers. Eve is designed to teach women of their role in life- the obedient follower- but also (in her betrayal, eating the fruit) to warn men to distrust women.
The Bible is full of teachings like "don't sow two types of cloth into one piece of clothing or you'll go to hell" because it was designed to teach the peasants how to live cheap, empty lives while working for the manipulative empire. After the dark ages the Church became a branch of the government- that is, the Monarchy- of England to manipulate both the peasants and Parliament.
E.G marriage exists to stop over-population, the commandments exist to re-enforce the law (Because back then the law was just something pushed onto people by the Monarchy, it needed a moral backing to ensure people follow it) and Jesus taught total pacifism to pacify the peasants, to prevent any unruly behavior- rioting, fighting the taxmen, overthrowing the Monarchy.
All of this is very well evidenced by Native American history- of how after the end of slavery (Which the Church did play a part in) Churches started finding the poor, homeless blacks and integrating them into society by teaching them Christianity, saying "The Bible is right, and all your native culture is wrong". If they hadn't, modern black culture would probably be far more unique and intelligent.

The Bible is not a holy text nor is it a silly joke some ancient Arab made up, it was designed to control people like you and me, to make us content with our role in life and to make us hard workers.
I don't have anything against spirituality but it should be a personal venture, there is absolutely no reason to follow the Bible or Christianity, only remnants of a more openly imperialistic and dominant society.

Most of this makes sense, in a scary kind of way haha. Couple things confuse me though.

Are you saying the bible only *claims* to make Jesus a pacifist to pacify the poor, or if the actual Jesus said this to keep the poor under control?

My ancient history when it comes to the bible is sketchy, but I thought the Jews were the ones who began the bible and were at the same time a relatively unpopular and persecuted group of people, but eventually gained in numbers (I forget why as well). Please correct me if I am wrong, but I always thought the Romans went after Christians?

I've also been disturbed on the percentage of African Americans who are Christian.

http://www.christianpost.com/articl...cans-most-religiously-devout-group/index.html

While slaves needed religion to give them that last tidbit of hope, it's disappointing to think that the majority of blacks are Christians simply because they were given horrible situations when trying to create their own culture/lives in this country.

 

[Dienekes]

I always find it interesting that many Christians who "reform" themselves and throw religion away become atheists; how absolute belief in a God becomes absolute disbelief in a God. They're polar opposites, and yet the same in that they're extremist views separated only by degree. Their thought process is essentially the same despite arriving at different conclusions.

Thats just me, though. I'm agnostic in that I simply don't know and dont think anyone truly ever will. Not in our current plane of existence anyway. That isnt to say we should stop searching for answers and dismiss the "impossible" out of hand, especially if it's just something outside of our current level of understanding and not an impossibility in a universe of infinite possibilities. I've had devout atheists scoff at me and say im just an undecided atheist. I think I'm taking the most logically sound route considering how little we actually know about what is "out there".

Absolutisms are kinda silly, be it in the form of religious doctrine or atheistic non-beliefs.

 

[Pain]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtdoEN90eG8[/ame]

 

[Dokutayuu]

I always find it interesting that many Christians who "reform" themselves and throw religion away become atheists; how absolute belief in a God becomes absolute disbelief in a God. They're polar opposites, and yet the same in that they're extremist views separated only by degree. Their thought process is essentially the same despite arriving at different conclusions.

I'm far less religious than I used to be. Ironically, the decline started as soon as I joined a Catholic school.

However, I do believe that the Bible (if interpreted in the "right" way) sets pretty good guidelines on life. However, there are quite a few parts that I disagree with, perhaps that caused my drift from religion.

 

[Grega]

And the Romans were certainly the ones that wrote most of the Bible and popularised the religion, but it may have been around in a smaller shape before.

While the entire new testament was written during Roman times there is a little problem with your deduction.

The Romans didnt think well of christians untill well after the relligion became popular. Need i remind you that the Romans had very little of their own stuff and had mostly stolen it from others. Most of their culture and especially their relligion was stolen from the Greeks. Even the gods they had were preety much an exact copy of the greek gods with names switched. So christianity didnt really have a place there untill well after its establishment.

The Romans initially branded Christians as heretics and were executing them. Kinda ironic that Christians did the same thing to other relligions a couple of centuries later.

 

[Sicron]

Because of hope and fear I guess. Do something bad and God will spank you, do something good, and your afterlife will be filled with nothing but good stuff in heaven. Certainly sounds more appealing than just...dieing, doesn't it?

People are afraid of the unknown, and have been for as long as humanity exists. Thunder being created by the god Thor, Aphrodite granting you fertility, Ares guiding you in times of war. Not believing in them, who knows what could've happend? People tend to cling to whatever gives them hope that their lives in the future may be better than they are now.

I guess that's why people believe in the Bible.

 

[Disguise]

It looks like the response I made didn't get posted.

You can't say that the bible is only a form of control. People control people, and those who control people are also controlled by other people. Whichever devices they use to do so, whether it be chains or legally binding words, don't matter.

Pacifism is the realization that pointing the finger at another makes us guilty of the same. It approaches problems in a non-threatening manner to provoke ACCEPTANCE, not resistance. We accept others, so others accept us. They don't force others to agree with them, they share their beliefs. Pacifism is as non-controlling a gesture as you can get, so I can see why you'd consider it submission. How else would you fight against enslavement though? Martin Luther King preached it, and it brought about many social changes in equality.

100 years from now someone like yourself may look back and say that you were controlled by television, the internet, business, and government. You had no mind of your own, you just did and thought everything that was presented to you, like you had no choices and no freedoms. What would you tell that person then? Most likely that they're guilty of the same. To reiterate, pointing the finger at others makes us guilty of the same.

You're making a lot of assumptions here, that the chicken came before the egg. How do you know the bible was not written in the image of man, instead of man becoming the image of the bible? You say they all did what the bible told them to, yet I say it was man who made the bible as a tool for themselves; akin to the book Diderot wrote Enclopedie, which shared common knowledge amongst the people.

If you read into that example, Diderot was persecuted for causing social disorder, and that does back your opinion of what wrongs the bible influenced in society. But look 1750 years before that time to where it originated from. Jesus and his followers who were a big part of the bible were also persecuted for social disorder as well. Bearing persecution for preaching the truth is what the bible exemplifies and praises those individuals for.

Man wrote the bible. The bible didn't write Man. It was written after events took place to remember them, it didn't come first. God, a genuine and untainted power, wrote it. Man that is overwhelmed by selfish desire cannot speak for God, but man who cares not for himself but for his people can. That makes all the difference and should never go unrecognized.

If we all understood the bible for what it was 2000 years ago and not what it became afterwards, then we'd be closer to appreciating it for what it was truly worth. Since we cannot know, we can only look at it for what it symbolizes and not take it as fact. Don't worship the book or the Word people use today; praise and respect those who followed it and sought to improve the lives of others.

Today, God and the bible take on different forms that are hard to recognize, especially if we overlook the people behind it and their good intentions. I'd say The Beatles are a more modern form of God and religion than the pope is.

 

[sub]

You can't say that the bible is only a form of control. People control people, and those who control people are also controlled by other people. Whichever devices they use to do so, whether it be chains or legally binding words, don't matter.

Pacifism is the realization that pointing the finger at another makes us guilty of the same. It approaches problems in a non-threatening manner to provoke ACCEPTANCE, not resistance. We accept others, so others accept us. They don't force others to agree with them, they share their beliefs. Pacifism is as non-controlling a gesture as you can get, so I can see why you'd consider it submission. How else would you fight against enslavement though? Martin Luther King preached it, and it brought about many social changes in equality.

100 years from now someone like yourself may look back and say that you were controlled by television, the internet, business, and government. You had no mind of your own, you just did and thought everything that was presented to you, like you had no choices and no freedoms. What would you tell that person then? Most likely that they're guilty of the same. To reiterate, pointing the finger at others makes us guilty of the same.

Pointing the finger at others makes us guilty of the same? I've seen this argument get put forth before, and it's such bull****. I can damn well point fingers at someone without being guilty of the same crime. If I think Ted Bundy was a murderer, that says absolutely nothing about whether or not I am a murderer myself.

 

[Disguise]

Pointing the finger at others makes us guilty of the same? I've seen this argument get put forth before, and it's such bull****. I can damn well point fingers at someone without being guilty of the same crime. If I think Ted Bundy was a murderer, that says absolutely nothing about whether or not I am a murderer myself.

If you want to kill him for being a murderer, then you're taking a life just the same. I know that's looking at it in black and white, but you have to admit that the fact this relationship exists is worth putting a lot of consideration into.

 

[Grega]

But other than being a few civilizations late, which is probably what I deserve for using Zeitgeist as study material, you don't disagree with anything in my post?

Knowing all this why would you ever want to believe in The Bible

I agree ot the fact that the Bible was written by man and that with the hundreds of translations lots of things probably got changed to better suit the ones who had them translated.

That doesnt need to stop me from forming my own opinion and believes based on stuff written in it.

I dont believe that something can be 100% good or evil. There is no pure black or white. Its all shades of grey. It just gets darker or brighter depending on the influence people get through their lives. I allso formed my own opinions obout the power of God and the Devil. The one that i call God is the voice taht tells me it was wrong when i do something bad or that tells me i shouldnt do something bad. Devil i call the voice that tells me the oposite. I allso believe that aside from telling me that they have no other power what so ever. They are both a part of me and form my personality as it is and it is totally up to me to follow one or the other. Thats how i interpret the free will that the bible preaches.

As i said i dont believe in the bible word for word. But i believe in the hints it gave me.

@Disguise how about this then. If you kill someone to save someone elses life. Does that make you a killer in need of punishment?

I think that the result is not as important as the intention. If you kill someone with the intention of ending their life then its bad, but if you kill someone cause you see no other way to save someone else then i dont see that as a bad thing. Its all a shade of grey though which we must navigate till we reach the end of the line.

 

[Disguise]

Whatever allows love to exist is the right choice. If the man is the embodiment of hate, then the only way is to get rid of him. As long as I don't kill him because I hate him, then it's fine. You might have a hard time killing someone you don't hate though.