16 direction swoop?

[manontherun]

I think you should be able to swoop in any direction you want. To make it easy it should be...

(Since repeatedly double tapping diagonally would be awkward on the keyboard), you would double tap and hold any of the normal 6 directions like now first, then if you want to drift diagonally you can.... lets say you want to go forward, up and left at the same time. You would first double tap forward and hold, then you would just hold Left+Jump/Up and you will be drifting diagonally Up-Left and at the same time still swooping forward. You can let go of Up and Left and continue the normal forward swoop... (this is important if you want to change swoop to the same direction you were just drifting in...Ex: You are swooping forward and drifting up-left, but you want to now switch to left swoop, so you let go of the left key for a quick second and double tap left like you would normally do now.)

Note: Of course you can't drift in opposite directions so if you hold left first you have to let go of left then hold right if you want to switch. Otherwise, the move right command would be cancelled.

This can possible get rid of the need to swoop blindly in a direction just so you can at the last second turn and hit them from the side. Basically, you should always be focusing your opponent in your crosshairs, while still having the same maneuverability as before. Yet people can still use that old blind style if they wish and are good enough.

This will create more diversity is styles and more freedom in movement.

I hope I explained this clearly enough for you all.

Later.

 

[KilledWithStyle]

You do know that there is a mouse in this game..... correct?

 

[manontherun]

That has nothing to do with what I posted above...(Explain why you posted that)

This will diversify the playing style and give it more freedom. And also speed things up a little while making it slightly harder to just swoop straight at people. IMO...oh and a little less need for teleporting to get around people.

 

[Orbit]

I don't think you can hold 3 buttons at the same time (+rightmouse).
and I think KWS meant that instead of holding left while swooping forward, you can just move the mouse alittle to the left.

 

[KilledWithStyle]

OMG even you should see the problem with your suggestion

I see no need for this due to the fact that when your looking at someone its easier to hit someone. If you want to avoid attacks twitch your mouse so you are looking away from them so you simply go around them. Adding thiese moves are just a way to combine **** that really is not needed. You can already go the full circle around you just by using the forward and backwards swoop. And they made it easier due to the fact that you can side swoop left and right. And even more easier due to teh fact that you can swoop directly up or down. So I see ABSOLUTELY no reason to add thiese attacks unless you have no clue what a mouse is for. That is why I said "You do know that theres a mouse in this game... correct?"

Not to mention there is an other factor holding people down. I know that the HL engine (from what I have observed) somehow divides the keyboard into sections. Each section can only handle 2 inputs at once. Due to the way that I know people have arranged thier keyboards can't handle that many inputs at once. Infact once I was doing a 3 combo that would have worked if I hadn't based my controols around they keypad instead of the center of the keyboard.

 

[manontherun]

I can easily hold three keys (and more), I do it with other games, and yeah you can move mouse to the side but thats one dimensional you have to be swooping straight forward. Everyone basically has the same style when they become a vet and everyone does the blind, straight swoop, mouse move to the side, then at the last second do a side hit. But with more swoop directions we can have more diversity it the way you charge at people or the way you are defensive... If we got 6 way swoop why not all way swoop? Besides you can't swoop left or right then control where you are going besides going in a a circle no matter what you do with your mouse, thats too one dimensional IMO. It's like if you could only move in the 6 directions period without swooping, think about how wierd that is to have to always move you mouse a certain way to get a angle. It's one dimensional and takes away from the full potential and diversity in styles of play.

From playing ESF alot and getting used to the straight forward swoop, you'lll probably forgot you can aim differently.... by using your body movement. There is a difference in the way you aim when you are going straight forward then if you are moving diagonally.

The most importantly point is it'll give the game more freedom.... Though if you didn't want to, you don't have to use it.

 

[Ravendust]

I can easily hold three keys (and more),

He didn't mean that, he means that most keyboards do not recognise more than 2 buttons held down. You can have 2 keyboard buttons and 2 mouse buttons but thats it. Not that I can foresee many situations apart from this suggestion where you'd need to have more.

 

[Carnage the 1]

Ugh, KWS has a very good point. It's good as it is, if you think it's not good enough then it's your problem - not ours. Basically, you can already have great fights with just swoop forward (as seen in 1.1 ^^) and the other directions already made it better, 16 directions would be overdoing it and 'screwing' it up completely

 

[manontherun]

Ugh, KWS has a very good point. It's good as it is, if you think it's not good enough then it's your problem - not ours. Basically, you can already have great fights with just swoop forward (as seen in 1.1 ^^) and the other directions already made it better, 16 directions would be overdoing it and 'screwing' it up completely

People said that about 6 way. :/ I don't see how it will screw anything up, I only see it enhancing. You aren't forced to go 16 its just you can have more control of your movement after you swoop (if you use it)............... But for this idea to reach it's full potential they'd have to make swoop endless (until you run out of ki).

P.S. No one said anyone would completely have to change their styles, but it'd allow others to develop different styles.... The added 6 way, it gave us more control and people developed different styles, now this will do the same IMO.

 

[Carnage the 1]

It's not needed, really...

 

[manontherun]

He didn't mean that, he means that most keyboards do not recognise more than 2 buttons held down. You can have 2 keyboard buttons and 2 mouse buttons but thats it. Not that I can foresee many situations apart from this suggestion where you'd need to have more.

I don't completely get that because, I (in ESF) can HOLD up+left+forward at the same time and my character will fly/float in that direction. So how exactly will it not work in swoop? Sorry you got to explain the HL better so I can understand.... And I don't know what keyboard wouldn't allow you to hold 3 keys (IN GAME) because I've never come across one. (Now in Windows thats another story but in a game, I've never....)

.....It's not needed isn't really a good argument because alot of stuff in ESF is "not need", or atleast some people think they are... Honestly, the way ESF is played now 6 way swoop "isn't needed" but it sure did enhance... some 1.1 vets disagree though....

 

[manontherun]

Also I forgot, whenever you are using DRIFT (I'll call it that so people can understand easier, instead of 16 way) your main direction is the one you 6 way double tapped with, so you will go in that direction with the most velocity/speed. So, at high ssj speed it'll be cool to feel like you are turning and fighting against the air like a jet does.

Only major difference in all this is that they'd have to change the function of swoop to allow a certain amount of movement/freedom (Not a whole new diagonal double tap swoop command). So you still will be doing double tap 6 ways, but you can control yourself a little more after to make the game more dynamic in the angles you can melee, block, beam, everything.... I guess some people didn't get what I meant by 16 way, there was a reason why I point the Question Mark there...

To explain the concept a little more, Ill give some examples of how it will work...

Right Now:
1. Whenever you swoop straight at someone your mouse becomes your greatest and only tool to aim at your target, but if you want to attack them at an angle you have to move your mouse away to the side to try to get around them.. (This doesn't happen in DBZ, or in real life, you are always supposed to face your target)

2. Whenever you swoop to the side left or right you can only go in a circle or straight line, you have no up or down movement no matter how you move your mouse.

With my idea:
1. After you swoop straight forward you can now hold left, right, up, or down, and any mixer of two diagonally (of course, as I stated earlier you can't go left+right or up+down, its impossible to go in opposite directions.). Whenever you want to melee hit your target from the side you have two choices, you can stay swooping straight forward and turn to the side and blindly try to get a hit, or instead you can now use drift to get above/below/side of them. (Also, this will be faster and less predictable than switching double tap swoop directions, because right now you almost always 99.9% of the time have to go double tap back to forward swoop if you want to hit. Anyone can see that a mile away.)

2. Whenever you swoop to the side left or right you can now drift up or down, along with other directions. So if you don't always want to swoop left and come with the same predictable swoop forward move. You can now use all your movement abilities to find your own way of getting around them and mixing it up (along with your old strats).

I also think the one dimensional way swoop works now, is part of the reason why transformed melee doesn't work so well right now. Especially in lag!

P.S. I'll come back with more reasons why I think this will enchance things a bit later.

 

[KilledWithStyle]

Read the post before you answer. (and also edit)
I said that it divided the keyboard into sections . Each section of which can only handle 2 inputs at once. like I can do qw and one far away p. Or i can use directions, shift controol, and num pad.

But the fact is that people with my type of keyboard wont be able to use my config, so they use the default. Which I know it becomes hard to input more than 3 when you get to that situation.

And lastly. YOU ALREADY HAVE ALL 360 degrees on the X Y and Z axis covered in the sphere wiht just the forward and backwards swoop.
If you look a certain direction(lets say to the left and upwards) and do forward, you can go left, up, and forward :O!!!!!!
If you look a certain direction(lets say to the left and upwards) and do backwards, you can do right, down, and backwards :O!!!!!
Every driection is already here and accounted for. You just have to learn how to aim with your mouse.

And I quote:

You do know that there is a mouse in this game..... correct?

YOu said your mouse becomes your only tool of aiming. WELL DUH. How else do you expect to hit someone, with a pencil?

 

[manontherun]

If you think the mouse is the only tool to aim with then you haven't played other fps much. You can actually use your movement (strafing sideways to help you aim) an example would be moving in the same direction when they move and only using the mouse slighting, this helps alot in lag.

But besides that, I forgot to mention something....

I know alot of people that hate ESF for one reason only and they all say its because of the restrictions of movement, it doesn't give them the same freedom they are looking for in a fast paced game such as ESF. They all say swoop sucks and they should just make turbo faster and scrap swoop. I like ESF but I can see their point, and I know why alot of people don't like it. I'm trying to find ways of improving the "freedom" and I think this would give them the freedom they want and give a boost to the ESF community. Yeah alot of people are used to the old system but that doesn't mean it can't be improved and make the game that much "more" enjoyable for everyone even the ESF haters...

BTW having to go left, up, left, whatever then back to forward swoop is repetitive and slow... and it doesn't work so well with transed characters. Thats why vets harderly do all that. The teleport + blind swoop move is the way to go most of the time..

Anyway, I know any smart ESF mod would consider this to improve their game, doesn't even have to be my setup as long as its an improvement in the freedom feeling in the movement.

Thx

 

[Eon]

It's just unnecessary, so what if it's not used in real life or DBZ, in real life or DBZ no one uses cross hairs to target their opponent. I'm sure the "smart" people of the ESF team ( I didn't know there were dumb ones... ;O! ) have considered it and shot it down.

 

[manontherun]

Yeah in real life you don't turn around or to the side if you are trying to attack someone. You keep them right in your view, or you are gonna get stole (Punched right you weren't looking for trying something stupid like that). And yeah the "smart" mods turned it down because they don't want their game to have more freedom, even if they don't use my idea. They shut the whole premise of more freedom because we know the "smart" mods don't want the game to be more smooth or to gain more fans....

Quit trying to misconstrue my words, because you fail.

thx

 

[KilledWithStyle]

wow you just shot down one of the esf team members. He has more insider than me. Listen to his SOUND ADVICE.

 

[Jimesu_Evil]

And yeah the "smart" mods turned it down because they don't want their game to have more freedom, even if they don't use my idea. They shut the whole premise of more freedom because we know the "smart" mods don't want the game to be more smooth or to gain more fans....

Quit trying to misconstrue my words, because you fail.

thx

No, the ESF team will probably shoot it down because there is only one person who thinks this is a good idea: YOU. Read everybody else's posts. Not one person has agreed with you. The team will not use ideas which only one person thinks are good.

And saying the team doesn't want the mod to be good just because they don't use your idea only makes you look like a whinging crybaby. Not using this idea won't make me like ESF any less, nor will using it make me like it any more.

Face it, nobody here thinks your idea is neccessary. If you can't get the hang of the swoop system, then that's something you'll have to deal with, not the ESF team.

 

[Skiwan]

you can already move in any direction you want, what the hell is this suggestion about? i mean really, what the hell could you write about for so damn long, you currently can move anywhere on the XYZ axi isnt that enough? i mean, in your suggestion i can currently do everything with the current swoop system, i really do not understand why you think this is needed, to me it'd be a waist of the teams time.

"Quit trying to misconstrue my words, because you fail."

If you hadnt noticed, nobody agree's and getting all upity about your disscussion skills isnt going to make them agree with this suggestion because it is completely rediculous. In real life i wouldnt be pressing buttons to make me fly through the air >_>

"BTW having to go left, up, left, whatever then back to forward swoop is repetitive and slow"
I can do that in under 3-4 seconds tops, what game are you playing?

"I know alot of people that hate ESF for one reason only and they all say its because of the restrictions of movement"

Sorry but wtf... esf gives you the most freedom of movement out of every game i have ever player, i repeat, EVER played. In what other game can you move in more directions than esf? i mean >_> call me old fashioned but in my universe we use 3 dimention XYZ. Who the hell told you they hate esf because they are restricted in movement?

Also your suggestion would be impossible to implement, as others have told you, most keyboards dont allow you to press that many buttons at once.

 

[manontherun]

wow you just shot down one of the esf team members. He has more insider than me.

That's saying much...

Anyways, I'm still sure the team would want to give their game more of feeling of freedom and smoothness even if they didn't use my idea at all. The point is the reason people hate esf is because they can't stand the restriction of movement, either that or they are some 1.1 lover that hates 1.2 adv. melee... Somehow they should deal with this issue if they want to make their game better. Because you can almost always ask anyone "why?" when they try ESF and they say it doesn't appeal to them...Their answer will most likely be "because its slow and restricted, its not smooth". I like ESF but I kinda agree, its just some of the better qualities outweigh the bad for me, but I still know it can and should be improved...

But ah well you can't win with most of these forum heads, they think ESF is l33t perfect greatest game of all time OMG nothing needs to be changed what are you talking about?.... :cry:

Atleast I got my ideas out, they can choose to ignore them but they will decide that, as long as they get a good read of it and know where I'm coming from eh..... :] (If they even read)

thx :tired: