suggestion clearups

[§hadow]

ok lets start with a much debated argument....MAJIN VEGETA...ok seems that people are 50/50 on this thing...50% say it was a powerup and 50% say it is just normal SSJ2 only with babidi in control of vegeta...ok to cut a long story short BOTH are wrong....seriously guys read up on what your saying. When vegeta was taken control of by babidi and turned into majin vegeta YES there was a power increase HOWEVER at the same time it ISNT a power increase, When babidi took control he awakened the evil power within vegeta which was sealed away inside vegeta after numerous events which was slowly turning vegeta into a good guy, babidi made vegeta evil and in turn vegeta felt no pity or regret whatsoever and was able to unleash his full potential. ok and so that this is balanced...YES IT IS DIFFERENT FROM SSJ2!, it is shown in budokai 3 as different and it is also different in the way i described above.

That was the 1st one



ok number 2

kamehameha vs Gallick Gun: ok to put this blatantly...GALLICK GUN SHOULD BE STRONGER, in the episodes goku was at "KAIOKEN X3" to break even with gallick gun....ok now call me crazy but i'm pretty sure that the gallick gun would have completely anihalated the kamehameha without kaioken, and goku had to go up to "KAIOKEN X4 NOT X5" to beat it...if ESF is based on the episodes, sorry to to sayn but you developers made a bit of a mistake.

ok number 3

new attacks for vegeta: i can think of several which are not in the esf game or which need modifying, in episode 253 (i think) union of rivals you may note that vegeta actually uses scattershot, when vegeta and nappa destroy arlia vegeta uses a 2 finger attack to destroy the planet. From a RPG game by snes i noticed vegeta can use Bakuhatsuha which is like when nappa points 2 fingers up to destroy a whole area (i dont expect you to put that in, coding would be next to impossible) i would also like to point out when vegeta charged cell after trunks was shot with a fingerlaser through the chest...all those ki attacks were not simple ki blast, alot of them had light trails behind them, to represent that i think that vegeta should have an extra attack which depending how long is charged throws out more generic balls instead of that crappy ki blast thing, i dont use it cause it either gets dodged or blocked. thats about it on vegeta's attacks.

and number 4 overpowering of characters

ok i'd like to say congrats to the admins on FURTHER overpowering goku and buu who currently are the best in the game...goku gets SSJ3 to overpower and buu can steal attacks now? why dont you just take out the rest of the characters guys, your overpowering characters, gohans mystic ability should be included i feel as it WAS in the episodes and was BEFORE goku used his SSJ3 for the 2nd time, skimping out of transformations guys?, also a good transformation for krillin would for him to have the UNLOCK POTENTIAL trans which was a power increase given by GURU, and THEN going into his other body, piccolo's trans....sorry guys it's gonna have to be boring loss of cloak HOWEVER piccolo deserves 2 trans,combind with nail AND combine with Kami as they were both trans's as when he joined with both he got MUCH stronger. NOW BUU CAN TAKE PEOPLES ATTACKS? HE'S POWERFUL ENOUGH!!!.

hmmmm ok number 5

semi supersayain: ok JUST NO, in that picture it was right before goku was to take on the ginyu force in otherworld with pikkon when frieza king cold and cell were causing trouble, he was merely powering up you really reckon he would need to be anywhere near super sayain? i think not.

ok if you can think of any other things i could bring to light just ask me.

 

[DaRkOwNs]

ok i'd like to say congrats to the admins on FURTHER overpowering goku and buu who currently are the best in the game...goku gets SSJ3 to overpower and buu can steal attacks now? why dont you just take out the rest of the characters guys, your overpowering characters, gohans mystic ability should be included i feel as it WAS in the episodes and was BEFORE goku used his SSJ3 for the 2nd time, skimping out of transformations guys?, also a good transformation for krillin would for him to have the UNLOCK POTENTIAL trans which was a power increase given by GURU, and THEN going into his other body, piccolo's trans....sorry guys it's gonna have to be boring loss of cloak HOWEVER piccolo deserves 2 trans,combind with nail AND combine with Kami as they were both trans's as when he joined with both he got MUCH stronger. NOW BUU CAN TAKE PEOPLES ATTACKS? HE'S POWERFUL ENOUGH!!!.

your being rude and pompous stop it. the teams smart they have WAY more in the game then they told us. ssj3 and buu will be balanced, either with them having penalties or the rest of the characters having strong transes or attacks

kamehameha vs Gallick Gun: ok to put this blatantly...GALLICK GUN SHOULD BE STRONGER, in the episodes goku was at "KAIOKEN X3" to break even with gallick gun....ok now call me crazy but i'm pretty sure that the gallick gun would have completely anihalated the kamehameha without kaioken, and goku had to go up to "KAIOKEN X4 NOT X5" to beat it...if ESF is based on the episodes, sorry to to sayn but you developers made a bit of a mistake

they didnt make a mistake with this they thought that with bigbang and final flash his attacks would be overpowered and vegeta is meant for fast melee/beaming so his gallick gun is ideal if you need a strong but fast charging beam in the middle of melee

 

[Cap J]

And let's not forget the fact that Vegeta was also stronger than Goku at that point.

 

[Ravendust]

This isn't really a clearup, and you certainly didn't need to make a new thread for your oppinions when all five points have active threads.

Majin SS2 Vegeta - Of course it was a powerup, SS2 Goku was stronger than SS2 Vegeta, so Vegeta gave his mind to Babidi in exchange for enough power to close the gap. It increased his power, so it is a powerup. What it isn't, however, is a seperate form, in the same way there's Majin Dabura, Majin Pui Pui, Majin Yakon, and so forth. Using Budokai 3 as evidence doesn't really give a strong arguement.

KHH/GG/Kaioken - The reason he needed to go up to x3 to draw equal was because Vegeta was a much stronger person than him anyway. Yes, Gallitgun was a stronger move, and if you work everything out with the official powerlevels it goes something like this:

Kaioken - PL x1.5
Kaioken x2 - PL x2
Kaioken x3 - PL x3
Kaioken x4 - PL x4
Kamehameha - PL x2.2
Gallick Gun - PL x3

So although, Gallick Gun (PL x3) is stronger than Kamehameha (PL x2.2), a Kaioken Kamehameha (PL x3.3) is stronger. Goku needed a Kaioken x3 Kamehameha (PL x 6.6)to match Vegeta's Gallick Gun (PL x3) because Vegeta was a lot stronger. But as DarkOwnz said, his other attacks are devastating, even if a weak, fast Gallick Gun isn't true to the show, it maintains balance. Also, seeing as Kaioken isn't even in ESF I don't see why you're saying the dev team made a mistake.

New Vegeta Attacks - As you list them, Renzoku, Giant Storm, Renzoku again. Remember the artwork improved as the series progressed, so more detail like blast trails became more prominent.

Overpowering - There's a big b1.3 discussion thread over in ESF Chat specifically for this, although I agree that giving Buu the ability to steal attacks is a bad idea.

Semi/Giji/False Super Saiyan - As clarified by the thread on this topic, he was just powering up in that pic. False Super Saiyan is used once by Goku against Lord Slug and is never seen again. Because it's movie content it is unlikely to be added.

As DaRkOwNz said, you're being fairly disrespectful, you only know a small amount of 1.3 info that the team has bestowed to us, just trust in them, they know what they're doing when it comes to balancing. I'd suggest you go to ESF Chat and read the super 1.3 discussion thread, hopefully it'll answer some of your questions and ideas.

 

[Skiwan]

ok i'd like to say congrats to the admins on FURTHER overpowering goku and buu who currently are the best in the game...goku gets SSJ3 to overpower and buu can steal attacks now? why dont you just take out the rest of the characters guys, your overpowering characters, gohans mystic ability should be included i feel as it WAS in the episodes and was BEFORE goku used his SSJ3 for the 2nd time, skimping out of transformations guys?, also a good transformation for krillin would for him to have the UNLOCK POTENTIAL trans which was a power increase given by GURU, and THEN going into his other body, piccolo's trans....sorry guys it's gonna have to be boring loss of cloak HOWEVER piccolo deserves 2 trans,combind with nail AND combine with Kami as they were both trans's as when he joined with both he got MUCH stronger. NOW BUU CAN TAKE PEOPLES ATTACKS? HE'S POWERFUL ENOUGH!!!.

I dont think they'll be too overpowered, they arent that stupid =\, but i do agree with all the transformations youve mentioned (cept vegeta), i was actually quite disappointed by the forms that are officially going to be in 1.3, however they are making new characters so that'll make up for it... i hope =x

Vegeta's renzoku really should be altered, and in the show they are ki blasts, the trails are in the show just to indicate movement, they should be straight firing and rapid like piccolo's scattershot, but hey, people ignore the facts.

they didnt make a mistake with this they thought that with bigbang and final flash his attacks would be overpowered and vegeta is meant for fast melee/beaming so his gallick gun is ideal if you need a strong but fast charging beam in the middle of melee

you can use a kamehameha in exactly the same way, and goku has kame torpedo's and 2 types of spirit bomb, and solar flare, and just think of the charge time needed for final flash and the speed it moves, big bang is quick and efficient though, but u cant beam struggle with it =\ and you have to stand still. I think galit gun should be more powerful than kamehameha, its not like it'd effect vegeta's arsenal that much, whats more is that he doesnt get those attacks in his normal form, where as goku does. I hardly ever use my characters transformed, and if ur vegeta you notice how little and ineffective ur galit gun can be, even when you're the most powerful player there.

The majin vegeta part is utter crap, it multiplied spopovich's power considerably, as it would with vegeta too. Vegeta always tried his best he trained solidly, there was no unlocked potential, all that crap about awakening the darkness in his heart was a lie, he didnt want to admit he needed the help from babidi to beat goku, its not in the english version, but goku doesnt believe it, because he knows he still cares for bulma and trunks (like we see before he kills himself), vegeta was trying to coverup that he needed the powerlevel boost to beat goku, that in vegeta's eyes was dishonnourable, so he covered it up. I might be a little off, but im a lot closer to the truth than you.

 

[Chakra-X]

I have to disagree a bit...

Ok gallic gun, i am HIGHLY convinced the first time he used it, it was really a super gallic gun. Cell who absorbeed android 17 (which is a LOT stronger than vegeta at saiyan saga) used gallic gun and it was nearly powerful enought to destroy the earth. And besides, he has final flash AND big bang attack, i see absolutely no reason to give him a another medium-strong beam.

Goku and Buu are the 2 strognest characters at the end of Dragonball Z, what do you expect? I admmit Piccolo and gohan seem to have disadvantages, but goku and buu are not truly over powered. Super saiyan 3, ok, an extra form, but how long does it take to get to it? Spirit Bomb is no where near over powering him, if he gets enough time to chrage a ful spirit bomb, players are just ignoring him, being their fault. Yes he can teleport when he charges a beam when ssj, but wat do you expect? He loses the spirit bomb and I doubt they will let him use the super spirit bomb he used to kill super android 13. Al he has that is unique is the kame torpedo and a medium beam move. How is he overpowered??

Buu, the only i cant stand about him is that damn candy attack, but ho well...Yes he can get kid buu, but how long is that really goin to take??? Stealing attacks is a "nifty" feature, but probably only attacks like sbc, kamehameha, gallic gun, and destrocto disc. I assume it would also replace either candy attack or mouth blast, so not really over powering him, just a new move. The only thing i could see as "over powering" is his high pl and being able to movve with mouth blast, which is a large blast radius.

As for kaoiken, i say thats just goku's 2nd turbo "turbo pressed twice". It acts as turbo, but instead of giving 15% pl. its 30-40% and lowers health a bit.

 

[DaRkOwNs]

all i want is gallick gun NOT to look like a generic beam they should really make it bigger

 

[§hadow]

disrespectful? NO lol learn what disrespect is i am critisising points ok i mean no disrespect to the team and as i forgot to include it in my original post i would like to add that i respect everything the ESF team is doing to keep it alive i am merely critisising.

Now about goku and buu let me just sum them up, 3 trans each, extremely powerful beams, goku has spirit bomb and buu can steal attacks...OVERBALANCED compare them to other characters, who cares if they were the best in DBZ at the end this is supposed to be a game that while based on the series it is also meant to be balanced that is what i'm trying to say

vegeta's attacks...point conceded you are right about vegeta supposed to have fast beam attacks if that is so however i would like to see vegeta's powered up ki blast volley to have more ki blasts in it if at all possible.

Majin vegeta...ok just read through the text again buddy, i said it is and at the same time it isnt, did vegeta's personality not completely change? it did and it wasn't babidi controlling him as once vegeta was taken over he did not obey babidi's order to kill supreme kai. agreed though it is NOT an extra form as vegeta had no control over it for a start.

kamehameha vs gallick gun....ok seriously if vegeta was THAT much stronger than goku do you reckon he would have been worried when he read his scouter and saw 9000? i think not. KIWI was at power level 11,000 ish on planet namek and he was stronger than vegeta before his fight with goku. But the PL table seems to be about right...i wouldn't have thought it was a super gallick gun...but who knows it might have been...

 

[Ravendust]

I'm not going to bet money on it, but i'm pretty sure ascending to a higher level made them more serious and 'evil' (like a true Saiyan). Like when Gohan went SS2 and kicked a Cell Jr. in half without blinking or making any noise, dead serious. Or when Goku went SS3 and his voice got hella deep. Also when Vegeta finally got the power to beat Goku, of course he was going to be aggressive and want to fight him. His personality didn't completley change (he was dark before) it just got more extreme.

 

[niobe]

uhmm, mistic gohan is stronger than anyone in the series.
even ssj3 cant be that strong.
now about the majin vegeta, let's say this for the 100x.
the first ssj2 is weaker than majin vegeta, the second ssj2 is stronger than majin vegeta.

so that is:
ssj2 before majin - just like gohan
majin vegeta - just as strong as goku
ssj2 after majin - atleast 20.000.000pl more

is there no one that can read around here.

also, the gallit gun must be stronger.
it is the only attack he has special and vegeta is(what the whole forum is saying for about a year) 1 of the limmited char's in the whole game.

o yeah, and there is no such thing as a semi/fake ssj.
this is the same discussion as saying that there is an ussj2, the only forms you have betwean normal and ssj2 is ssj-assj-ussj and no other crap.(man, this is getting dbaf in this way)

 

[Rayos]

umm not to burst the bubble...but if you want to get technical.

ssj vegitto is the strongest character if i am not mistaken for the dbz series...though he IS a fusion...he is a seperate character...same for gotenks


also if i am not mistaken...EXACT power levels were dropped after the frieza saga...or was it cell saga...there were no exact power levels in any manga//episodes for the buu saga. I really do not know where you are getting this information. And if you say from a website...i will laugh at you



and please don't bring in a fan based dbaf into this...that is not necessary to state what this is turning into

 

[Ravendust]

The powerlevels I posted are from the Saiyan Saga, niobe has nothing official to go on, Toriyama dropped powerlevels because he felt they were too restricting when it came to deciding the outcomes of battles.

o yeah, and there is no such thing as a semi/fake ssj.

What do you call the form Goku was in when he broke Lord Slug's wrist then?

 

[niobe]

i'm only talking about the serie's baka

 

[Rayos]

And yet you still didn't comment on what i said....figures


and at what point did you state non movie? i don't see that written anywhere

 

[Eon]

Don't knock it til you tried it?

All I can say at the moment. >_>