So this got me thinking

[The Deco]

I am training in Olympic Taekwondo (I wish I knew what Olympic meant before I joined :/) and we are forced to use striking, kicks only, stomach height. (no groundwork, no anything else) I thought to myself in that moment that I would move to ground work (I couldn't stand right) but I can't - forced to use striking, and striking only, legs only.

He actually aimed for my thighs (I was told that I hit people in the thigh also in other fights, accidentally of course) and this was a kind of a punishment that I was supposed to learn from NOT TO HIT LOWER THAN THE STOMACH, even by accident.

So in this "punishment fight" I hit him 1 time in the ass or thighs, cant recall, and he started aiming lower, for my thighs (the punishment for my sin).

That is not the point, the point is I failed to defend from low kicks appropiatley so I am asking, which arts focus on the full body, thighs, shins, arms, elbow, fists and so on. I am talking both defending, deflecting, dodging from those body parts and attacking with them. Also, which arts are more hybrid and less focused on 1 style. (Taekwondo on striking and Jujitsu on grappling and groundwork for example) So Ive heard that Ninjutsu is hybrid.

I respected that I was crippled temporary and I wanted to continue, but I could not stand and kick and also I could not go for other style (I almost tried to knockhim down with some ground grappling technique)

That is why I want to see and learn - which arts are more loose and let you have a more variety of styles (striking,grappling, counter attacking, pressure points, bone to bone attacks and so on) and not forced to use one in the trainings and that will also teach you things that on the street will let you be more flexible, like when u get injured and you want to change your style for grappling in that specific moment.

 

[Killface]

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu really focuses on ground game and grappling...

Go watch UFC. Most fighters incorporate Jiu-Jitsu in their fighting techniques. But as for a type of technique training that utilizes all forms of combat? I'm not sure.


As stated, UFC fighters incorporate BJJ in their fighting. But they supplement that with other techniques and fighting styles. Bruce Lee once said:

"the best fighter is not a Boxer, Karate or Judo man. The best fighter is someone who can adapt to any style."


Coming from arguably the father of MMA, that says quite a bit. Tough out what you're learning right now, supplement that with some upper body striking techniques (Boxing, presumably), then incorporate that with BJJ. That'd be your best bet, bud.

Edit: [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_martial_arts[/ame]

As stated in that article below,

Popular disciplines

Most 'traditional' martial arts have a specific focus and these arts may be trained to improve in that area. Popular disciplines of each type include:

* Stand-up: Various forms of boxing, kickboxing/Muay Thai and forms of full contact karate are trained to improve footwork, elbowing, kicking, kneeing and punching.
* Clinch: Freestyle, Greco-Roman wrestling, Sambo and Judo are trained to improve clinching, takedowns and throws, while Muay Thai is trained to improve the striking aspect of the clinch.
* Ground: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, shoot wrestling, catch wrestling, Judo and Sambo are trained to improve ground control and position, as well as to achieve submission holds, and defend against them.

Some styles have been adapted from their traditional form, such as boxing stances which lack effective counters to leg kicks and the muay thai stance which is poor for defending against takedowns due to the static nature, or Judo techniques which must be adapted for No Gi competition. It is common for a fighter to train with multiple coaches of different styles or an organized fight team to improve various aspects of their game at once. Cardiovascular conditioning, speed drills, strength training and flexibility are also important aspects of a fighter's training. Some schools advertise their styles as simply "mixed martial arts", which has become a genre in itself; but the training will still often be split in to different sections.

While mixed martial arts was initially practiced almost exclusively by competitive fighters, this is no longer the case. As the sport has become more mainstream and more widely taught, it has become accessible to wider range of practitioners of all ages. Proponents of this sort of training argue that it is safe for anyone, of any age, with varying levels of competitiveness.

 

[The Deco]

Yeah, I know about the MMAs, although some arts are already "mixed" in themself (hybrid martial arts)

I guess it would be best to train a good art of each fighting style, dropping the bad aspects of it and fuse it into one style, like MMA does. But this takes time to master a lot of arts.

Thanks for the comment though

 

[Deman]

Killface pretty much nailed it. I was taught "Jeet Kun Do" when I was younger and we incorporated strikes of pretty much every kind as well as grappling, but I later learned there really is no "form" to Jeet Kun Do and that it is actually more of a philosophy than anything else.

BJJ is as good art as any to learn groundwork and grappling. I know Muay Thai incorporates the elbows and knees as much as punches in kicks as well. But like said above, the best art form is going to be a combination of many that works for you.

 

[Killface]

MC might be able to help... but to the best of my knowledge, there is no single Martial Art that incorporates everything or near everything.

 

[Deman]

Deco, now that I've heard you're Israeli, I would strongly suggest looking into Krav Maga. I know your military teaches it as a part of basic, but I don't know if you've got the option of learning it outside of that. Krav Maga is kind of like Occam's Razor when it comes to martial arts, foregoing flowing, beautiful techniques and instead simplifying combat. It doesn't have much emphasis on kicks(for good reason, bad kicking technique can put you in even worse positions) but you've already got some TKD under your belt so that shouldn't be an issue.

 

[MC]

You can't go wrong with MMA (provided you can find a good school).

Most MMA schools offer classes for various individual martial arts, though what's offered varies between schools. So, if you just want to learn Boxing, you can do that (provided they offer classes for it). Or if you want to learn Muay Thai and Judo, you can do that as well (once again, provided they offer classes for them). Though, it's often recommended that you should focus on one martial art and wait until you become proficient at it before starting another (this way you're not having to juggle between the two). And finally, MMA schools also offer MMA classes that teach you "everything" (striking, clinching and groundwork) rather than an individual martial art.

Here's some examples of what to expect when looking for an MMA school:

http://www.americantopteam.com/service_details.php?CategoryID=2
http://www.sbgi-pdx.com/curriculum.htm

You also can't go wrong with learning Boxing or Judo. Both of which are highly recommended because they're practical, cheap and widely available.

Either way, avoid martial arts that lack hard-contact, non-compliant sparring and "aliveness." Hard-contact, non-compliant sparring is a must if you want to become a better fighter. That is, hitting with enough force/power that makes you or your partner never want to drop their hands again, but not enough to knock each other out (though it does happen). And "aliveness" because it incorporates footwork, head-movement (like in Boxing), timing, etcetera.

In other words, this is what you should look for:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG0PIQ-mlH0[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AF8NKwY09c[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYBjsMPYS7c[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJk8XDHiZcE[/ame]

This is what you should avoid:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFd7t_l6YW0[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Tu3RmS4nZ8[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdt4Yyrb1IU[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvJ7JkocWn0[/ame]

And, here's a video on what "aliveness" is and it's importance in martial arts training:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imjmLWj5WCU[/ame]

 

[Deman]

Though "aliveness" is important, one still should incorporate some sort of resistance and form training. Striking a heavy bag with the proper form gives you an idea on how to maximize your blows and also builds up helps build bone density, preventing injury.

 

[Nuttzy]

pffft, you kids and your kick dancing


seriously though, if I had to recommend anything it would be boxing. most martial arts are complete BS, and work only in sanctioned matches, with rules and whatnot. In a full on brawl the majority of what you learned is impractical or will just get your ass kicked.

boxing will give you punching power which is always relevant. In any kind of fight.


I broke a 19 year old kids forearm AND dislocated his shoulder when he attempted to block a blow to the chest. (yeah thats right fools, I have more in common with Kimbo Slice than just a massive beard )

 

[The Deco]

pffft, you kids and your kick dancing


seriously though, if I had to recommend anything it would be boxing. most martial arts are complete BS, and work only in sanctioned matches, with rules and whatnot. In a full on brawl the majority of what you learned is impractical or will just get your ass kicked.

boxing will give you punching power which is always relevant. In any kind of fight.


I broke a 19 year old kids forearm AND dislocated his shoulder when he attempted to block a blow to the chest. (yeah thats right fools, I have more in common with Kimbo Slice than just a massive beard )

Kick dancing you bet! I hate it

So Nuttzy, that 19 year old, what was his physical structure? big, small, weak, strong, massive bones, pussy bones, tall and slim, short and fat, tall and fat etc...

 

[Grega]

Sorry nutzy but in an open fight boxers have a fatal flaw ^^

Low kicks can kill them. Boxing only trains upper bodey attack and defense. While it does teach mobility it neglects leg defense.

 

[Nuttzy]

My legs have help up my 300 lb fat ass for years, it will take more than a little kick to budge them.

that being said, I wouldnt **** with someone who knew a little kickboxing, knees friggin hurt.

 

[Mkilbride]

My dad always got into fights when he was younger and is quite a good boxer. Fast and powerful punches, he had a reputation back then he tells me.

Though when me and him used to play fight as a kid, I'd start kicking his legs and sidegut and he'd be all like

"Hey! No cheapshots!" lol

He said "Real men box" and that using your legs is "Dis-honorable" in a real fight. He's a good guy and a good fighter, but yeah, most boxers look down on using legs, and as such, they have almost no defense against them.

 

[The Deco]

Actually, im very focused om the practicality of the art, but am also focused on body conditioning in the training. I want a great focus will also be on creating a good warrior body - from stamina to bones to muscles to endurace of hits. I know boxing supposed to answer that but it is too competitive for me (rules: no under the belly and so on) im looking for something real than competitive (takwan****)

I don't think im looking for an internal art, but I am looking for something that will also blend with internal exercises, such as meditation, learn ki flow and so on. (this is less focused on the fighting, its more for my self well being. although it could be awesome if it would incorporate to the fighting itself)

 

[MC]

Here's a list of martial arts off the top of my head that have a good reputation for being practical:

Boxing, Kickboxing, Judo, Brazilian Jiu-jitsu, Sambo, Savate, Muay Thai, Lethwei, Kyokushin Karate, Ashihara Karate, Wrestling (Catch, Submission, Freestyle, Greco-Roman, Shoot, etcetera) and Sanshou.

And guess what? They're all competitive/sport martial arts!

Do you see where I'm going with this?

Not being taught how to hit below the belt isn't going to keep a Boxer from knocking your head off with a right-straight. Not being taught how to eye-gouge isn't going to keep a Brazilian Jiu-jitsu practitioner from dislocating your elbow with an armbar.

 

[DiebytheSword]

A lot of good advice has already been given. I'll add some things from my point of view.

First lets dispel some myths:

1) BJJ is not a god martial art. Get this out of your head now. Its good, there is no doubt, and its effectiveness on the ground with ONE opponent is arguably the best. It does not stop your victims freinds from kicking you repeatedly while you choke someone out or break his arm. Again, I'm not saying it isn't good, but it isn't perfect, and if you think it is you have issues.

2) Mixed Martial Arts schools replace training in individual styles. Sure you can go to Burger King and get a double whopper flame broiled really fast, but you aren't getting a gormet hamburger. You do that at a resturaunt. Take that where you will, but there is a reason why you don't learn math in social studies and science in english. If the school is really good, it will have classes from seperate instructors teaching you different styles at different times. No one argues that learning multiple styles is bad, nor is learning multiple styles at once bad. Learning stripped down versions of those arts all in the same class is a recipie for failure. Someone mentioned Bruce Lee as the father of MMA, remember that he learned individual styles and taught a philosophy. Important distinction from what he did to modern pit fight, everything revolves around muy thai and BJJ, MMA.

3) No one style is perfect. Sure you'll have your favorites, I'm biased, your biased, and your teachers are all biased, they are, after all selling their knowledge. Its a business decision to **** talk the other guy. That being said, you need to compliment styles you already know with gaps in your perffered styles. Deco, you've already identified that you are restrained in your olympic sport class. Some schools of TKD teach both the sport and the martial art behind it, those are the ones you should seek out. You'll learn a bit of everything. That aside, you need to concentrate on the weak areas of TKD. Punching and Grappling. A good TKD school will cross train in Hapkido, a different Korean style that is similar to Akido. That will teach you some cinch grappling, cinch striking is complimented well by real TKD, which uses quite a few elbows and knees. Failing that, you can look to Muy Thai, any form of hard/soft Kung Fu (Wing Chung, 5 Animal, Hun Gar etc). For ground battles you were offered a very good list earlier.

4) X techniqe is useless in Y situation. This is the dumbest **** I've ever heard. People have been doing things like this for thousands of years for a reason: it works. Every tool is useful if you know how to use it. Therfore, learn everything you can.

5) [Insert awesome military martial art here] is better than all other styles. I had fun with this when someone trained in SCARS had no other basics mastered from any other martial art. If you can't hit me, you aren't going to get to use a fancy autokinematic. Krav Maga was mentioned. Good stuff, but only usefull when tied to something else.


Theres a lot of blanket stuff that gets said, and very little of it has actual merit. A great deal of learning a martial art is finding a reputable master. You can't learn from a tape/DVD/Youtube vid, it doesn't correct you when you **** up. You can also find someone that tries to teach you how to score points in a tourney, he's equally useless. Tae Kwon do teaches high kicks because it streches out your comfort area of where you can throw a kick with accuracy and power. This is always better than only being able to kick rib high and not hit anything but the target stripe on the armor convincingly. The version of TKD I learned had hand techniques, hapkido techniques, elbows and knees as well a few grapple and throw techniques. There was quite a bit more, but that's not for here. The point is, your TKD school is the problem with TKD. There are several McDojangs only interested in scoring trophies and medals. Mix it up some, but don't forget the stuff you learned in TKD either. TKD is what Bruce Lee chose to compliment his main style of Wing Chung for medium and long range offensive strikes with his legs, remember that.

 

[The Deco]

A lot of good advice has already been given. I'll add some things from my point of view.

First lets dispel some myths:

1) BJJ is not a god martial art. Get this out of your head now. Its good, there is no doubt, and its effectiveness on the ground with ONE opponent is arguably the best. It does not stop your victims freinds from kicking you repeatedly while you choke someone out or break his arm. Again, I'm not saying it isn't good, but it isn't perfect, and if you think it is you have issues.

2) Mixed Martial Arts schools replace training in individual styles. Sure you can go to Burger King and get a double whopper flame broiled really fast, but you aren't getting a gormet hamburger. You do that at a resturaunt. Take that where you will, but there is a reason why you don't learn math in social studies and science in english. If the school is really good, it will have classes from seperate instructors teaching you different styles at different times. No one argues that learning multiple styles is bad, nor is learning multiple styles at once bad. Learning stripped down versions of those arts all in the same class is a recipie for failure. Someone mentioned Bruce Lee as the father of MMA, remember that he learned individual styles and taught a philosophy. Important distinction from what he did to modern pit fight, everything revolves around muy thai and BJJ, MMA.

3) No one style is perfect. Sure you'll have your favorites, I'm biased, your biased, and your teachers are all biased, they are, after all selling their knowledge. Its a business decision to **** talk the other guy. That being said, you need to compliment styles you already know with gaps in your perffered styles. Deco, you've already identified that you are restrained in your olympic sport class. Some schools of TKD teach both the sport and the martial art behind it, those are the ones you should seek out. You'll learn a bit of everything. That aside, you need to concentrate on the weak areas of TKD. Punching and Grappling. A good TKD school will cross train in Hapkido, a different Korean style that is similar to Akido. That will teach you some cinch grappling, cinch striking is complimented well by real TKD, which uses quite a few elbows and knees. Failing that, you can look to Muy Thai, any form of hard/soft Kung Fu (Wing Chung, 5 Animal, Hun Gar etc). For ground battles you were offered a very good list earlier.

4) X techniqe is useless in Y situation. This is the dumbest **** I've ever heard. People have been doing things like this for thousands of years for a reason: it works. Every tool is useful if you know how to use it. Therfore, learn everything you can.

5) [Insert awesome military martial art here] is better than all other styles. I had fun with this when someone trained in SCARS had no other basics mastered from any other martial art. If you can't hit me, you aren't going to get to use a fancy autokinematic. Krav Maga was mentioned. Good stuff, but only usefull when tied to something else.


Theres a lot of blanket stuff that gets said, and very little of it has actual merit. A great deal of learning a martial art is finding a reputable master. You can't learn from a tape/DVD/Youtube vid, it doesn't correct you when you **** up. You can also find someone that tries to teach you how to score points in a tourney, he's equally useless. Tae Kwon do teaches high kicks because it streches out your comfort area of where you can throw a kick with accuracy and power. This is always better than only being able to kick rib high and not hit anything but the target stripe on the armor convincingly. The version of TKD I learned had hand techniques, hapkido techniques, elbows and knees as well a few grapple and throw techniques. There was quite a bit more, but that's not for here. The point is, your TKD school is the problem with TKD. There are several McDojangs only interested in scoring trophies and medals. Mix it up some, but don't forget the stuff you learned in TKD either. TKD is what Bruce Lee chose to compliment his main style of Wing Chung for medium and long range offensive strikes with his legs, remember that.

Thanks Cuc.

Yeah, even though TKD is not something I can hold on to by itself, or tell in a street fighter HEY NO SHIN STRIKES, the techs themself will come in use at a point.

I agree that BJJ will be good against 1 fighter, but I can also say the same on Aikido, Jujitsu and Judo. I don't think any grappling art teaches you fighting against multiple opponents in the same time. That being said, they are all will be a problem in a bar brawl. ))

I don't agree on your 4th part though. Bruce lee himself said that there is no BEST technique, there is the right technique for the right time. I will give you an example, if I will fight against a BJJ 1 vs 1, with only my TKD kicking and some basic punching that we only use in Kata. (and if you want to go even further, my 1/2 year Jujitsu training when I was 10)
I agree that all the tools are useful, but preferably, do not use the wrong tech in the wrong situation.

I am sure that will leave me dead.

Thanks.

I am still looking for replies if people have to offer

 

[DiebytheSword]

Perhaps I worded it badly, but I was trying to say what you just said. Every technique has a time and place where it is perfect to use, therefore don't ditch them or turn your nose up to learning them just because someone tells you they fail (high kicks are a really good example, I won a streetfight with one of those).

Also Judo is slightly different than the other grappling arts, and I can imagine it used against multiple fighters, as a lot of it is throws. Throw guy A, throw guy B, throw guy C and the break his arm.

Akido and Hapkido are often used standing up, and leave your legs able to do things.