Sarah Palin - Oh, Great...

[Zeonix]

My problem is with this statement:

I still think that teaching one belief and not allowing discussion of others is tantamount to simply teaching that this is the only way.

What "belief" is being taught, exactly? Are we talking about atheism as a belief system (which, again, has no place in the education system and isn't something I've ever encountered), or are you talking about teaching creationism without talking about every other religion's interpretation?

 

[guest]

Are we talking about atheism as a belief system (which, again, has no place in the education system and isn't something I've ever encountered)

If you treat aetheism as a belief and hold Christianity up to the same scrutinies you have for it, then we'll end up teaching no philosophy whatsoever in school? No trying to explain to children what death is and why plants exist?

I don't understand, how do you not teach aetheism in schools? Surely just not teaching Christianity is teaching aetheism?

 

[Skiwan]

Subjects should only cover their own subjects. religious education should cover religious theories and beliefs, while science should teach science, mathematics should teach mathematics, English teaches English etc. There should be no teaching of personal opinion or bias during any subject, like how in Government and Politics lessons teachers are not allowed to disclose their personal preference between parties dispite it can be sometimes clear by how they teach, but this is somewhat unavoidable. Here we have a requirement for all secondary schools here that you must have at least 1 hour of Religious education a week, same with Physical Education. We were taught about creationism during RE, and I felt it was treated appropriately. If they started teaching it during science I do not believe it would receive the correct treatment or respect.

 

[sub]

If you treat aetheism as a belief and hold Christianity up to the same scrutinies you have for it, then we'll end up teaching no philosophy whatsoever in school? No trying to explain to children what death is and why plants exist?

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here.

I don't understand, how do you not teach aetheism in schools? Surely just not teaching Christianity is teaching aetheism?

Wrong.

Just because religion is not mentioned does not mean atheism is being advocated. Let's say I own a company that sells cars. Just because I'm not selling boats doesn't mean I'm telling you to never buy a boat. I just don't sell it.

 

[Optional]

That's my point. They beileve in that there absolutely cannot be a god, despite lack of proof. Yet, they decry theists for believing something without proof.

As for your comment Nix, I already conceeded that point to Sub. Do I really need to conceed it again to you?

As an aside, I am not a gnostic theist. I was convinced through an event in my life which could not be explained logically that god exists. I have my personal proof, and it's not something that I could use to convince any other human being except for the ones present for that event. Do I believe god exists, yes I do, and I believe I have actually witnessed his work. That is proof enough for me. Every thing else needs to be questioned, including how organized religeon presents God to us. Now that I'm not in the republican party, maybe I loose my membership in gnostic theism before that becomes the next big label on me.

If someone walks up to me and tells me everything in this holy book is true, I'd ask for proof.

I don't believe in the absence of a god. I simply know that there is absence of proof for a god. Why would you believe in something that had no proof? You are a gnostic atheist in respect to other gods. Do you believe in Thor or Zeus? Why not? Look at all the stories and information there is available on both of them. Tell me why you don't believe in them - seriously, I want to know.


Edit:

Video of McCain admitting mayors/governors don't have real national security experience and hence would need on-the-job training:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzhFDQIgGSg&eurl=

 

[Optimus Prime]

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Planned Parenthood wins.

 

[DiebytheSword]

If someone walks up to me and tells me everything in this holy book is true, I'd ask for proof.

I don't believe in the absence of a god. I simply know that there is absence of proof for a god. Why would you believe in something that had no proof? You are a gnostic atheist in respect to other gods. Do you believe in Thor or Zeus? Why not? Look at all the stories and information there is available on both of them. Tell me why you don't believe in them - seriously, I want to know.


Edit:

Video of McCain admitting mayors/governors don't have real national security experience and hence would need on-the-job training:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzhFDQIgGSg&eurl=

Actually, no I am not a gnostic atheist of other religeons. I believe that there most certainly could have been proof for these people as well. What exactly these gods were, or what they could have been, to me, is up to debate. I do not follow those gods, because my religeon precludes worship of other gods. I have no proof for them, so I cannot say they did or did not exist.

Despite McCain's words, I still feel that Govenor is the next logical step to President.

Lets do it this way.

I am a Govenor of my state for less that two years.

I am an avid outdoors person, and can fish and hunt.

I have vigorously faught corruption in my own party and taken on big buisness in my state.

Who am I?

Yeah, Teddy Roosevelt was completely wrong for the job of president as well.

 

[Optional]

You imply that there is proof of a Christian god. Please, show it to me - I want to see it.


Also, who am I?

I ruled the most powerful nation on Earth in my time.
I fought and killed many people my citizens and I considered evil.
I expanded my nation and made it even more powerful while fighting my nation's evil.
The old government imprisoned me several times while I still had the support of the majority of the nation.

My name is Hitler, nice to meet you.

My point is you can apply your logic to anyone, Cuc. You can make anyone sound great and selfless. Doesn't mean you can make a good leader.

 

[DiebytheSword]

I said, there was personal proof for me, it would never convince you, nor was it meant to.

I couldn't show it to you even if I thought it would change your mind. It's not something that was seen.

Also the point of that statement above was that Sarah Palin had similar credentials to a popular and loved president.

 

[MC]

Also the point of that statement above was that Sarah Palin had similar credentials to a popular and loved president.

Except you're missing two things. That was Theodore Roosevelt, this is Sarah Palin. And that was then, this is now.

 

[DiebytheSword]

And requirements for the office have not changed.

All I'm pointing out is that great presidents have come from the Govenor's Mansion.

 

[MC]

And requirements for the office have not changed.

All I'm pointing out is that great presidents have come from the Govenor's Mansion.

What's George W. Bush's excuse, then? And what's to keep her from being no different, if not worse than George W. Bush if she were to become president?

 

[Pieter Paul Rubens]

We can all argue until we all turn purple of rage, but we won't change each others views on religion. It's something a person has to discover and decide for himself whether to believe in one or more higher beings, or just nothing at all.

I was raised in a moderate Catholic family, every school I've been on was Catholic and I actively went to church when I was younger. Despite all that, I've stepped away from Catholicism due to different events throughout my life that either indicated that God is a sadistic ****, or there's no God at all. But that doesn't mean I don't have respect for people that do believe. In fact, I still believe, just not in a higher being. I believe in my own individual soul, my own personal balance, my own values and my own life.

And no matter how much I respect other religions, they remain individual choices. Cuc chose to believe in God, because of some events throughout his life. I lost my faith in God due to certain events in my life. And because religion is individual, it should not be taught in schools. It should not be used to run a country, to guide a nation. This can't work and this will never work. That's the one thing about religion that can actually be proven: religion can't rule a nation. The proof is there, look at the Islam (a.k.a. terrorism to some), look at Nazi-Germany, look at the crusades, look in history books. All that is actual proof of why religion shouldn't rule a nation. Individual believes should not be the voice for millions of people, reason should be that voice.

 

[DiebytheSword]

What's George W. Bush's excuse, then? And what's to keep her from being no different, if not worse than George W. Bush if she were to become president?

Oh he's prepared for the job, and performs it with ruthless abandon. The probelm is that he makes bad choices. And to be honest, you can't guage that from anyone, Obama or McCain might be just as bad as bush with critical decision moments.

 

[sub]

So then you can't gauge performance based on the fact she was a governor.

 

[Devion]

Taught and debated are two different things.

And lets face it, if evolution is so right versus religeon, then why are you worried? Shouldn't the fallicies be self evident?

Well isn't it self evident?

Because creationism isn't science. If you put creationism on the same platform as evolution, you are giving a signal that creationism is a valid scientific theory to be discussed. Now anybody with a little bit of knowledge about science can tell you that creationism isn't science. Therefore it should never be taught in the science classrooms.(It could be a good subject in mythology classes......)

And if that isn't clear, then let me put it this way. You don't teach flat earth vs globe earth in geography class, now do you?

I was a supporter of McCain before he choose Palin. He was quite liberal for republican standards and that he could set an example that the republican party was getting rid of it's religious tumor. But sadly, he choose a christian fundamentalist.(Although I support free choice etc., McCain alone would never ban abortion etc., but with Palin as potential VP it's a whole different story)

It's sad how a country, based on a secular constitution, gets it's president based on who is the most pius. I hope America will get out it's (social)dark ages soon.

To me, Optional, seperation of church and state means that neither one should be involved in running the other. For instance, we should not have a bishop running the united states, and there should never be a state controlled religeon. Religeous belief in schools is dodgy, because we teach atheism in school. Atheism is a religeous belief, you have faith that there is no supreme being.

I don't want to personally attack you, but your ignorance is getting the better of me.

Calling atheism a belief system is just plain RETARDED and IGNORANT. It is a lack of belief and it certainly isn't being taught in schools.

Atheism is a greek word for nonbelief, the translation is literally, no gods. You could also call it nontheism.

Or do you also have faith that you do not believe in lepricons? Do we call this "religion" alepriconity?

Atheism isn't a philosophy, religion or political point of view. Just like not believing in astrology, tarots, ghosts and things like that.

 

[guest]

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Planned Parenthood wins.

I find it hilarious that there are people who believe Obama ISN'T a "politician who will say ANYTHING to get elected".

 

[Zeonix]

And requirements for the office have not changed.

All I'm pointing out is that great presidents have come from the Govenor's Mansion.

I think it's unfair to those presidents to compare them to Palin. I mean, Reagan ran California, which has/had one of the strongest economies in the world, and one of the most heavily populated states in the country, and FDR ran NY. Those two states stand pretty much on their own. Alaska? Not so much.

 

[J-Dude]

Well isn't it self evident?

Because creationism isn't science. If you put creationism on the same platform as evolution, you are giving a signal that creationism is a valid scientific theory to be discussed. Now anybody with a little bit of knowledge about science can tell you that creationism isn't science. Therefore it should never be taught in the science classrooms.(It could be a good subject in mythology classes......)

And if that isn't clear, then let me put it this way. You don't teach flat earth vs globe earth in geography class, now do you?

I was a supporter of McCain before he choose Palin. He was quite liberal for republican standards and that he could set an example that the republican party was getting rid of it's religious tumor. But sadly, he choose a christian fundamentalist.(Although I support free choice etc., McCain alone would never ban abortion etc., but with Palin as potential VP it's a whole different story)

It's sad how a country, based on a secular constitution, gets it's president based on who is the most pius. I hope America will get out it's (social)dark ages soon.

I don't want to personally attack you, but your ignorance is getting the better of me.

Calling atheism a belief system is just plain RETARDED and IGNORANT. It is a lack of belief and it certainly isn't being taught in schools.

Atheism is a greek word for nonbelief, the translation is literally, no gods. You could also call it nontheism.

Or do you also have faith that you do not believe in lepricons? Do we call this "religion" alepriconity?

Atheism isn't a philosophy, religion or political point of view. Just like not believing in astrology, tarots, ghosts and things like that.

Buddy, simmer down, because you are playing with FIRE. I'm controlling the urge to lash back at you for same gnostic atheism Cuc was talking about previously because I don't want this topic locked, but I'll just say you're just as closed minded as the most hard core RELIGIOUS extremist by what you're saying.

On a side note, I feel someone in charge of Alaska probably has experience in:

A: Foreign relations

B: Running an isolated land mass quite a ways away from Mainland US, which I think gives her a more self-reliant feeling which is perfect for the job.

 

[MC]

I request that this thread be closed.