Saiyan Blood?

[|Xiphos|]

k i kno this is an unfair advantage for most saiyans but hey, so what? :laff:

saiyans increase their power after a 'near death experience'. their power increases significantly, like in the db series. well, in esf it cud be just a small increase just to make it a little fair... :S

altho it wud b better if ther was a self healing thing to survive the near death experience.

well, this could encorage cowards...

 

[JasonX]

go away saiyans are almost perfect... lol look at krillin piccolo i feel sorry for them

 

[Grega]

k i kno this is an unfair advantage for most saiyans but hey, so what? :laff:

saiyans increase their power after a 'near death experience'. their power increases significantly, like in the db series. well, in esf it cud be just a small increase just to make it a little fair... :S

altho it wud b better if ther was a self healing thing to survive the near death experience.

well, this could encorage cowards...

This game is more about trying to balance out characters. So saiyan blod would ruin the whole koncept. People would get senzubeans (yes some maps have senzubeans) hurt themselves and than heal to get PL. Lame way but it would happen.


@Gohan Piccolo maby but not Krillin. Fastest person in 1.2 XD

 

[J-Dude]

This game is more about trying to balance out characters. So saiyan blod would ruin the whole koncept. People would get senzubeans (yes some maps have senzubeans) hurt themselves and than heal to get PL. Lame way but it would happen.


@Gohan Piccolo maby but not Krillin. Fastest person in 1.2 XD

You know, that's the thing I think that holds ESF back from reaching it's full potential. The team is too afraid of making anything unfair, and limits it's gameplay in every way by trying to achieve this impossible thing called "balance". But the thing is, "balancing" makes it something other than DBZ. ESF is a fine example if online multiplayer combat, but a bad example of a DBZ game. The ESF team seems to have forgotten what it was made for: to create a fun Dragonball Z experience. I've seen hundreds of suggestions placed here, and nearly all were shot down because they would throw the delicate character balance out of whack and commit the "horror" of making one character more favorable than another. Unfortunately, that whole mentality is shot to Hell by the fact that Goku and Vegeta are the most popular characters from the fact that everyone likes them. How is that balanced?

ZEQ2 is the only modders I know who seem to get it. They throw out this balance concept. I've seen it stated by their team: "There's no need to balance anything; the series balances itself." Instead of being another DBZ mod with HUD screens and scroll-through attacks that are used like types of guns, they said plain out that if it can be done in the series, it can be done in the game. Every attack, every feature, every oh so minor detail is taken on so as to respect the Dragonball series in it's fullest.

In ESF, balance has become the fascist dictating fun police. I've seen hundreds of attack suggestions, cool features and potentially revolutionary ideas shot down because it has a possibility of giving one character class an unfair advantage. And so what happens if, say, you give EVERY character their fullest features? Now each character has their OWN curveballs to throw, and so this imbalance works into a different strategy per character. The key to balance, is imbalance. I can only hope the ESF team comes to realize that though a succesful mod, it's far from a revolutionary DBZ experience. That part of this mod, I now realize, died a long time ago.

 

[Adaptus]

Yeah, or the Team just wants to make it fair for everyone to play as their favorite character without getting their ass kicked because said character is underpowered.

 

[Grega]

OK if everything is DBZ than why add other characters than Goku and Buu since they wouldnt stand a chance in the first place?

Yes to much balance is not good DMZ proved that where difrent characters ment just other models with their own attacks. Stats were the same. But no balance is just as bad.

 

[harSens]

You know, that's the thing I think that holds ESF back from reaching it's full potential. The team is too afraid of making anything unfair, and limits it's gameplay in every way by trying to achieve this impossible thing called "balance". But the thing is, "balancing" makes it something other than DBZ. ESF is a fine example if online multiplayer combat, but a bad example of a DBZ game. The ESF team seems to have forgotten what it was made for: to create a fun Dragonball Z experience. I've seen hundreds of suggestions placed here, and nearly all were shot down because they would throw the delicate character balance out of whack and commit the "horror" of making one character more favorable than another. Unfortunately, that whole mentality is shot to Hell by the fact that Goku and Vegeta are the most popular characters from the fact that everyone likes them. How is that balanced?

ZEQ2 is the only modders I know who seem to get it. They throw out this balance concept. I've seen it stated by their team: "There's no need to balance anything; the series balances itself." Instead of being another DBZ mod with HUD screens and scroll-through attacks that are used like types of guns, they said plain out that if it can be done in the series, it can be done in the game. Every attack, every feature, every oh so minor detail is taken on so as to respect the Dragonball series in it's fullest.

In ESF, balance has become the fascist dictating fun police. I've seen hundreds of attack suggestions, cool features and potentially revolutionary ideas shot down because it has a possibility of giving one character class an unfair advantage. And so what happens if, say, you give EVERY character their fullest features? Now each character has their OWN curveballs to throw, and so this imbalance works into a different strategy per character. The key to balance, is imbalance. I can only hope the ESF team comes to realize that though a succesful mod, it's far from a revolutionary DBZ experience. That part of this mod, I now realize, died a long time ago.

@zeq 2 thing: yeah, sure... gotta see that before I believe that.

@balance thing. I personally feel that some balance between characters is needed. It won't be possible to create perfect balance though (unless you make the characters exactly the same). In 1.3 more variety between classes is already planned, in ki-efficiency, health, transformations (buddy vs normal), stamina consumption, attacks, being able to teleport with charged beams, have transformations consume ki or not, etc. I haven't really seen any 'great' ideas shut down because of balance issues, unless they're blalantly unbalanced.

As for the sayain blood thing, it won't work without health regeneration, which would imo slow the game down too much. We could do it after each non-self kill, but I'm not sure if we want to promote getting yourself killed for pl.

 

[Grega]

We could do it after each non-self kill, but I'm not sure if we want to promote getting yourself killed for pl.

Heh 1.0 was like that. each time you died your PL went up if i remember correctly. Was an interesting bug.

Get killed and than you can beamspam XD

 

[+HottsaucE@+]

i reckon it would be fun if the game was a lil unbalanced?

 

[kam!]

A "perfect" DBZ experience would be unplayable.
Best example is EVM on 1.2. Goku SSJ3 (which you get easily by either dragon or taking turns at kiblobbing with someone) can nuke
the entire map with one KHH, just like in the series.
It's so much fun. You spawn, die. Then you spawn and guess what? You die.
And no, I don't want every character to be the same, but you can't make a (multiplayer) game exactly like the series and playable at the same time.

 

[J-Dude]

A "perfect" DBZ experience would be unplayable.
Best example is EVM on 1.2. Goku SSJ3 (which you get easily by either dragon or taking turns at kiblobbing with someone) can nuke
the entire map with one KHH, just like in the series.
It's so much fun. You spawn, die. Then you spawn and guess what? You die.
And no, I don't want every character to be the same, but you can't make a (multiplayer) game exactly like the series and playable at the same time.

Yeah, but that's only because characters in ESF have all been given a lamentable amount of health. True DBZ dynamics would dictate that characters can last a Hell of a lot longer before dying, which ZEQ2 us trying to replicate. Plus, EVM's blasts don't just get stronger, they get BIGGER, which is a misconception. In DBZ, the size of blasts save for ones that takes half your energy to do remains pretty constant. The main difference is the energy is more concentrated, and does more damage while not getting too much larger. Otherwise, all of Goku's blows as a Super Saiyan on Namek would have produced massive Spirit-Bomb size explosions every time; but the force was concentrated into a smaller area.

Really, I think the notion that you can't make a realistic and playabe DBZ game is horse****. If you've been over to the ZEQ2 forums, you'll see that they've been studying the exact dynamics of how things work in DBZ throughout their whole ordeal, and you'd be amazed at how mathematicaly they talk when explaining features. Meaning of course, that they're thinking everything through. They've busted their brains in to find a way to faithfully create a DBZ game while making the game totally playable, and if you ask me they've figured it out.

For multiplayer, I've also seen how they plan to set up some functions. One thing they've done is to set game servers so they have a timeline range. Basically, you could have the range of character powers and styles limited to say...Namek Saga until Perfect Cell Saga, or Perfect Cell Saga till end of Buu Saga, or any combination. Automatically that allows you to play in a server where the playing ground is evened between characters like Goku and Krillin, while the power level differences will not change.

The game is said to be played in a way similar to the series as well. Being able to learn how things react or understanding certain things in the game (basically having "SKILL" as opposed to strength) can make even a weak opponenet beat a powerful one who's perception of the game is bad. It's no longer "this guy's stronger so he'll win".

In a way actually, ESF has a similar mindset. The game is indeed lamentably set so the more powerful guys almost always win, but despite this, I've seen people powered up to insane levels get killed by someone a quarter their strength with proper melee, so you CAN'T tell me that balance in ESF accounts for too much when those scenarios apply.

 

[VideoJinx]

Yeah, but that's only because characters in ESF have all been given a lamentable amount of health. True DBZ dynamics would dictate that characters can last a Hell of a lot longer before dying, which ZEQ2 us trying to replicate. Plus, EVM's blasts don't just get stronger, they get BIGGER, which is a misconception. In DBZ, the size of blasts save for ones that takes half your energy to do remains pretty constant. The main difference is the energy is more concentrated, and does more damage while not getting too much larger. Otherwise, all of Goku's blows as a Super Saiyan on Namek would have produced massive Spirit-Bomb size explosions every time; but the force was concentrated into a smaller area.

Really, I think the notion that you can't make a realistic and playabe DBZ game is horse****. If you've been over to the ZEQ2 forums, you'll see that they've been studying the exact dynamics of how things work in DBZ throughout their whole ordeal, and you'd be amazed at how mathematicaly they talk when explaining features. Meaning of course, that they're thinking everything through. They've busted their brains in to find a way to faithfully create a DBZ game while making the game totally playable, and if you ask me they've figured it out.

For multiplayer, I've also seen how they plan to set up some functions. One thing they've done is to set game servers so they have a timeline range. Basically, you could have the range of character powers and styles limited to say...Namek Saga until Perfect Cell Saga, or Perfect Cell Saga till end of Buu Saga, or any combination. Automatically that allows you to play in a server where the playing ground is evened between characters like Goku and Krillin, while the power level differences will not change.

The game is said to be played in a way similar to the series as well. Being able to learn how things react or understanding certain things in the game (basically having "SKILL" as opposed to strength) can make even a weak opponenet beat a powerful one who's perception of the game is bad. It's no longer "this guy's stronger so he'll win".

In a way actually, ESF has a similar mindset. The game is indeed lamentably set so the more powerful guys almost always win, but despite this, I've seen people powered up to insane levels get killed by someone a quarter their strength with proper melee, so you CAN'T tell me that balance in ESF accounts for too much when those scenarios apply.

I completely agree, ESF is limiting itself. Instead of saying "how can we add this and make it balanced/fair". Many people are saying NO.. its bad DONT ADD it... it will ruin the game. Too many pessimist, not enough optimists =|

And i know its possible to add every feature of dbz AND balance it just take deep thought

k i kno this is an unfair advantage for most saiyans but hey, so what? :laff:

saiyans increase their power after a 'near death experience'. their power increases significantly, like in the db series. well, in esf it cud be just a small increase just to make it a little fair... :S

altho it wud b better if ther was a self healing thing to survive the near death experience.

well, this could encorage cowards...

I think a good way to add this would be to add somekind of a new "Emotional/FreezeFrame feature/ LastSecondShock".

How it works:
- Lets say someone fires a beam at you, right before they detonate it an "icon" could appear on the screen telling you to press a button. If you press it in time, before it goes away, this button could cause your player to instantly powerup to a level higher then you could normally go, and could instantly add 30 to 60 hp onto your original hp. Also, your hp/Ki would drain slowly until your hp and ki are back to normal. This could most likely save you from the blast( A life threatening event ).

To use this when ever you are about to die, you must first enable it. To enable it, you have to give out a certain amount of damage to any player or players. After using it, the amount of damage needed is increased by 2/4 of the damage needed.

 

[|Xiphos|]

I completely agree, ESF is limiting itself. Instead of saying "how can we add this and make it balanced/fair". Many people are saying NO.. its bad DONT ADD it... it will ruin the game. Too many pessimist, not enough optimists =|

And i know its possible to add every feature of dbz AND balance it just take deep thought

:\ dude is balance lyk getting a big issue? i agree with VideoJinx that all teh features CAN b added n balanced as well

:shocked: n i dont understand what u mean by 'you have to give out a certain amount of damage to any player or players'

 

[Grega]

:\ dude is balance lyk getting a big issue? i agree with VideoJinx that all teh features CAN b added n balanced as well

:shocked: n i dont understand what u mean by 'you have to give out a certain amount of damage to any player or players'

Lets see. This idea allows people nearly kill themselves and heal up with senzubeans. Tell me whi wouldnt pass up teh oportunity to actually do hurt themselves and than heal with senzus. Heck even i would exploit that to its maximum. Tell me how to make it fair for the other characters and ill give you a cookie.

PS. If this post doesnt make sense. Im kinda drunk now (can barely sit up straight or know what i write) o_o

 

[True-Warrior]

go away saiyans are almost perfect... lol look at krillin piccolo i feel sorry for them

if you think about it krillin is the fastest in esf, so theres your advantage

 

[vinay87]

Unbalanced should be a cvar turned on and off.
With it on, you have ESF. With it off, you have DBZ.

But really, ESF shouldn't be just another DBZ multiplayer game. It should be a DBZ game. Sure there should be balance, but perhaps not as much as the team seems to believe. For one thing, if a larger HP makes the game unbalanced, then make the damage lesser. Fights should be thrice as long as they are. If Beam spamming is a problem, then using continuous Beams and ki blasts should zap up Stamina. The ki requirement for flight is stupid, when did anyone in dbz get tired of flying? I don't remember Tien having to power up when he was flying back in Dragonball, and back then his powerlevel was puny. Fusion is one thing even I don't agree with. No fusions is good, period.
And the teleport is good enough, no tweaking required there. Melee struggles and encoutners last too short, they need a longer timeperiod and if you say that melee experts will pwn the server, then make melee damage lower than it is.
And the thing I hate is the beam explosions. When did you ever see ZFighters blow their beams up before contact?

But I still do play ESF. Why? Coz its the best thing out there. But when something better comes along, its only natural for a true DBZ fan to migrate. Sure it will be sad at first, but the love for DBZ will kick in and drag me out into it.
But since I doubt that any DBZ game can get better than ESF, hoohum.

 

[J-Dude]

Unbalanced should be a cvar turned on and off.
With it on, you have ESF. With it off, you have DBZ.

But really, ESF shouldn't be just another DBZ multiplayer game. It should be a DBZ game. Sure there should be balance, but perhaps not as much as the team seems to believe. For one thing, if a larger HP makes the game unbalanced, then make the damage lesser. Fights should be thrice as long as they are. If Beam spamming is a problem, then using continuous Beams and ki blasts should zap up Stamina. The ki requirement for flight is stupid, when did anyone in dbz get tired of flying? I don't remember Tien having to power up when he was flying back in Dragonball, and back then his powerlevel was puny. Fusion is one thing even I don't agree with. No fusions is good, period.
And the teleport is good enough, no tweaking required there. Melee struggles and encoutners last too short, they need a longer timeperiod and if you say that melee experts will pwn the server, then make melee damage lower than it is.
And the thing I hate is the beam explosions. When did you ever see ZFighters blow their beams up before contact?

But I still do play ESF. Why? Coz its the best thing out there. But when something better comes along, its only natural for a true DBZ fan to migrate. Sure it will be sad at first, but the love for DBZ will kick in and drag me out into it.
But since I doubt that any DBZ game can get better than ESF, hoohum.

Quoted for epic ****ing truth. I especially agree with the fight duration and flight energy thing. No DBZ character unless they were stupidly outmatched was ever killed with the rapidity seen in ESF. And flight DOESN'T have a significant cost. Jesus, if VIDEL could fly for long periods of time with a non-existent power level, then any Z fighter should be able to stay airborn. Sure, swooping should retain it's cost so people can't just run away forever, but honestly, when have you ever seen ESF players fight on the ground? It's an air-based game, and eating ki just to stay up slows things down.

 

[Grega]

Actually Gohan and Krillin had some problems with flying in Freeza saga doe to low energy.

 

[Mountain Dewd]

"There's no need to balance anything; the series balances itself."

Lets get this straight, Dbz, in no way shape or form balances itself, and to suggest otherwise is rather moronic.

Once Akira Toriyama introduced Super Saiya-jins, all of the other characters were essentially useless, Krillin at his strongest, wouldn't even make Ssj Goku itch.

Tell me, what is fun about attacking someone to no avail, only because they have chosen one of the Saiya-jin characters, nothing thats what.

Akira Toriyama fell into the same trap that all of the shonen mangaka seem to do, the main characters get stronger, everyone else gets left behind.

He did not create his manga with a balanced fan-created game in mind.

I'm looking forward to Zeq2 as much as the next guy, but one thing I am sick of is the buzzwords and phrases they keep churning out.

"Perceptual Immersion" "Image Depth Outlining"

Fancy words for No hud and Varying Cel outlines.

I think certain people need to be reminded that Zeq2 game is still in development, and claiming Esf is doing everything wrong and Zeq2 is doing everything right, when all you've read about Zeq2 is a bunch of exaggerated press releases with some pretty pictures.

 

[VideoJinx]

:\ dude is balance lyk getting a big issue? i agree with VideoJinx that all teh features CAN b added n balanced as well

:shocked: n i dont understand what u mean by 'you have to give out a certain amount of damage to any player or players'

What i meant is..

If a you can only activate the "New Feature" by attacking other people.
When you attack you do damage. The amount of damage you do adds up and when it reaches a certain point you activate the "new feature".

Lets see. This idea allows people nearly kill themselves and heal up with senzubeans. Tell me whi wouldnt pass up teh oportunity to actually do hurt themselves and than heal with senzus. Heck even i would exploit that to its maximum. Tell me how to make it fair for the other characters and ill give you a cookie.

PS. If this post doesnt make sense. Im kinda drunk now (can barely sit up straight or know what i write) o_o

Well, senzu beans in the show were only from kama or that cat guy.... Why are they in esf when ?