[Old PotW] PotW 9/20/2009

[KYnetiK]

No. Ragdoll is not really physics.

When each joint in a skeleton has friction, gravity, and collisions applied to them, as well as constraints to other joints, I would be hard pressed to say that it wasnt more attuned to physics. We wont be seeing that in ESF. Just because world physics are more accurate doesnt mean it can easily extend to character skeletons.

 

[Nemix]

yeah exactly... what ... he ... said

 

[Grega]

Let me rephrase that then.

Ragdoll isnt realy a physics engine. Its specificly aimed at uncontrolled models. Meaning it has nothing to do with the way thecharacters interact with the world before they get killed off.

It does use physics to determine the way the model moves but its not a real physics engine.

 

[Boogyman93]

Oh great. Black Mesa Source turned out to be a total disappointment and now this...

ESF Team: We will add a new physics engine. There will be rocks tumbling down hills and pretty dust effects.

- Will there be ragdolls?
ESF Team: NO!

 

[KYnetiK]

Let me rephrase that then.

Ragdoll isnt realy a physics engine. Its specificly aimed at uncontrolled models. Meaning it has nothing to do with the way thecharacters interact with the world before they get killed off.

It does use physics to determine the way the model moves but its not a real physics engine.

Exactly

Ragdolls work by inheriting world physics and applying it to particular nodes, as well as certain relationships between other nodes.

If skeletons were able to be rigged with ragdoll properties, the physics engine would affect the way the characters interact with the world after they get killed off.

This is something I dont belive HL can do, but I may be wrong. It can get pretty complex when you want each node to have the right interaction with other nodes to produce logical animation. To get this to work would require a lot of effort producing something entirely independant, but still compatible with, the physics engine itself.

When you want to apply this ragdoll dynamics to character animations before you are killed off (for example : dynamic walking over unstable terrain), things become exponentially more complex, at least for the HL engine.

 

[Boogyman93]

This is something I dont belive HL can do, but I may be wrong.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aChB2e5AL5k&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aChB2e5AL5k&feature=related[/ame]

Crappy ragdolls but with the Gold Source engine. I believe that with a bit of work you guys can make them look as good as in the new games.

 

[KYnetiK]

Ah yes, I do remember that now. It has a lot of collision and constraint problems though, and those skeletons arent half as complex as ESF ones. And that would have been produced by hooking HLs existing physics engine. I still remain rather skeptical of getting it the way we would like it to be.

 

[Grega]

With DTs awsome animations. Who needs ragdolls XD

 

[harSens]

Rag doll is possible with the physics engine. Not really worth the coding effort for just pretty dead animations though, especially since we don't leave the bodies lying around.

 

[Skyrider]

Rag doll is possible with the physics engine. Not really worth the coding effort for just pretty dead animations though, especially since we don't leave the bodies lying around.

awww , but I want to beat my record of "most dead bodies on the ground" , you've ruined it now! :'(

 

[KarrdeKNR]

What hars said. Given that this is a free mod, and everyone has lives, we have things that need to be done, and things that some devs want to do. Ragdolls would take a lot of effort, for minimal gain, and would likely be fraught with performance bugs that would need to be tested out. All to make a dead body bounce a little bit and wiggle its limbs. It's really not worth it in a game like ESF, especially when you consider the fact that nobody will really see this due to the size of maps (think about 1.2.3 - how close did you need to be to really see you opponent well?) And besides, given the pacing of the game, you're not gonna stick around long enough to find out what your opponent's dead body is doing. You're going to see about more fights or dealing with the guy chasing you.

Oh great. Black Mesa Source turned out to be a total disappointment and now this...

And what're you smoking? Black Mesa is scheduled for a 2009 release. Unless you're complaining about playing the leaked version.

 

[Boogyman93]

What hars said. Given that this is a free mod, and everyone has lives, we have things that need to be done, and things that some devs want to do. Ragdolls would take a lot of effort, for minimal gain, and would likely be fraught with performance bugs that would need to be tested out. All to make a dead body bounce a little bit and wiggle its limbs. It's really not worth it in a game like ESF, especially when you consider the fact that nobody will really see this due to the size of maps (think about 1.2.3 - how close did you need to be to really see you opponent well?) And besides, given the pacing of the game, you're not gonna stick around long enough to find out what your opponent's dead body is doing. You're going to see about more fights or dealing with the guy chasing you.



And what're you smoking? Black Mesa is scheduled for a 2009 release. Unless you're complaining about playing the leaked version.

I checked the forum and from what I read, BM:S is basically a update to HL1. They just made the models and maps look better. Nothing, absolutely nothing added in plus to the gameplay.

---------- Double Post below was added at 05:16 PM has been merged with this post created at 05:14 PM ----------

Rag doll is possible with the physics engine. Not really worth the coding effort for just pretty dead animations though, especially since we don't leave the bodies lying around.

Well, by adding ragdolls you lower the animations used by 5 or how many you guys use to simulate the characters death. You can use those slots to add something else

 

[KYnetiK]

You would still need an animation slot to use for a ragdoll death.

besides, Im amazed at how offtopic this thread has ebcome.

 

[Boogyman93]

besides, Im amazed at how offtopic this thread has ebcome.

With BM:S or with the ragdolls?

 

[KYnetiK]

Does it matter?

Tralalalalala nice clouds ^_^

The light is pretty intense on the models. Evil Buu mdl is pretty siiiiik!

 

[Boogyman93]

I still want ragdolls...

 

[Skiwan]

Too bad, cuz you're not going to get any.

I'm more than happy with dt's expertise anyway, his anims bring the game to life.

 

[KYnetiK]

I would prefer DTs animations too, which is ironic because Im sure hes using some inverse kinematic chains in there somewhere

 

[Sicron]

Rag doll is possible with the physics engine. Not really worth the coding effort for just pretty dead animations though, especially since we don't leave the bodies lying around.

Well, it doesn't have to be used for dead animations only. It could be used for the entire throwing system, melee system and probably some other systems as well. Then again, I've always loved DT's animation, and they do a pretty damn good job and it would probably take a lot of time and effort to create a proper physics-ragdoll system.

 

[Vassago]

Ragdoll would improve death animations greatly (darks anims are great, but you plop down isntantly, it's very unnatural), but the coding effort doesn't warrant it. Coding it into other features as suggest, such as melee, would be even more work.