Not to start...

[Deathshot]

Not to start a Flame War or anything like that... And I dont want people to go off topic on this... No Anti-USA **** either...but...

I know this is old news and things have happened and way in the past but...


What do you really think happened in 9/11?

 

[Damaera]

Airplanes collided with the Twin Towers.

 

[Deathshot]

Do you believe it was Terrorism or an Inside Government Job?

 

[Damaera]

Terrorism of course, why would the government do something retarded like that?

 

[Deathshot]

Why would the government be so stupid as to keep this war going?

I mean no matter how much you know a person, they can be the exact opposite.

 

[MC]

If you have a point to make, then make it.

 

[Eon]

Do you really think the Bush administration had the intelligence to pull off such a thing?

It wasn't a conspiracy, dude. If the US Government was too stupid to pull off something as simple as wiretapping in the 60s, I really doubt they could pull off such a conspiracy like 9/11.

As far as the war...

Iraq was crap, shouldn't have gone down the way it did, but we're pulling out and focusing on the actual war in Afghanistan. Well, the thing with war is...you don't exactly just pull out and call it done, not that easy.

 

[DiebytheSword]

Not so sure Iraq was crap, there was significant work going on in Saddams nuclear weapon research. Remember the house that was raided with dozens of scientists, computers, and documents on the subject? Also consider that the sanctions on Iraq were about to be lifted by the UN. Paint that pretty picture a little further and see a new arms race between Iran and Iraq. Lovely. Glad it was stopped. I also have reason to believe that they were continuing to work on biological weapons under Hans Blix's nose. Remember, that I worked for one of the largest manufacturers of vaccines in the world during the war, I have reason to believe that Hans Blix was talking out of his ass.

Now I will wholeheartedly agree that Iraq was borked as far as planning and execution. After all, we gave them a 3 month head start to prepare for our secret attack, which was widely publicised through the media.

I also agree that 9/11 was not an inside job. The only conspiracy that holds any water is the one that the israeli's might have done it. I don't believe for a second that a government that can't get medical care for the elderly right could do an inside job and keep thousands of people quiet all this time.

Someone would have blown the whistle by now.

 

[Deathshot]

I am not one to say it was an inside job, I just want to see what people have to say about it.


It just seems that people have a lot to say on it being an Inside Job.

 

[Deman]

If Jinx were around he'd surely have something to tell you.

I may be making a reductio ad absurdum here, but basically those who think 9/11 was an inside job claim there is no way that commercial airliners could have caused the damage we saw on that day. There's more to what they have to say than that, but that's about it. I just don't feel like playing the Devil's advocate in this topic.

 

[TehMuffinMan]

Not to start a Flame War or anything like that... And I dont want people to go off topic on this... No Anti-USA **** either...but...

I know this is old news and things have happened and way in the past but...


What do you really think happened in 9/11?

they fell down?

 

[DiebytheSword]

Metallurgy is part of my current job, at half the temperature that steel melts, it starts to collect carbon from the ignition source thats heating it. This loading of carbon makes the steel very, very brittle. Wind shear on an already damaged structure that is quite large, now with its remaining bones getting more and more brittle as the fire burned hotter and hotter . . . it was going to fall. People talk about it being built to survive a missile hit, but missiles carry much less JPL, and have much more explosive force. What killed the Twin Towers was heat, not explosive force.

 

[Optional]

Assume it is a conspiracy. How many people would it take to pull something like that off? They would need to fake the following: 1) airplane black boxes 2) radio messages 3) tons of plane debris 4) pay people off to say family members died in the planes 5) plant bombs in the Pentagon and both twin towers.

That is going to require hundreds, if not thousands of people.

What are the chances that not one of those people said a single word to anyone? Unless the CIA has memory erasing technology, your conspiracy theory falls apart rapidly.

 

[Grega]

Metallurgy is part of my current job, at half the temperature that steel melts, it starts to collect carbon from the ignition source thats heating it. This loading of carbon makes the steel very, very brittle. Wind shear on an already damaged structure that is quite large, now with its remaining bones getting more and more brittle as the fire burned hotter and hotter . . . it was going to fall. People talk about it being built to survive a missile hit, but missiles carry much less JPL, and have much more explosive force. What killed the Twin Towers was heat, not explosive force.

As a firefighter i can confirm that. Simply looking at housing constructions in a fire. Houses wihich use concrete reinforced by steel or other metals are a lot more dangereous than houses that use wooden beams. Fact is when the metal heats up it becomes soft and when the fire is hot enough the whole thing just caves in in an instant. And we aint talking about jet fuel fires either. Something burning as hot as jet fuel should be able to decimate any reinforcement the metal brings to the structure within seconds.

The only thing that kinda throws me off is the perfect collapse. Both towers went straight down. So that must mean there was either noo wind and a lot of luck or some wind and even more luch. Why exactly the towers didnt fall to about half way before going to the side is beyond me. Cause with all my logic i see something like that going one way. A sideways collapse not a vertical one. Especially with the help of the wind on such a big height.

 

[DiebytheSword]

If you've ever been in those buildings, you know that those floors are quite big. There were several of them on either side above the line of the fire. The weight of these floors caused the collapses as they came crashing down on top the lower floors.

 

[Tenzo]

Terrorism of course, why would the government do something retarded like that?

Yeah and terrorists buy their weapons and bombs from the local market.
Seriously Dam, you don't know, WE don't know what they might do and do not at the big and round table. To them we are merely chess pawns. Or do you want to say that they actually value people's lives? That's my opinion anyway.

The same goes for 9/11. I'm not saying it was conspiracy or that regular terrorist hijacked the planes and flew them into the towers by themselves.

 

[Dienekes]

The way I see it, it kinda is a conspiracy. But it's not as extravagant or complicated as you might think.

The US provokes Iraq with embargoes starving half a million people. Naturally, slightly pissed off and confused militias originally trained by the US want to get back at them. The US intelligence services that trained them in the first place predict everything they're going to do and know when the attack is going to happen. **** Cheney even knew the exact day, having arrived at the NORAD command centre to take command- a completely unprecedented event before that day- hours before there was any sign of a crisis.
Yeah, they knew it was going to happen, yeah they caused it, yeah they wanted it. But it was mostly done indirectly, no swapping around passengers or remote controlled planes. Whether the towers were brought down by demolitions is extremely hard to determine and mostly irrelevant. The 911 investigation is probably the weakest cover-up since Watergate and the blatant bull**** it spouts proves time and time again that there is something to cover up.

That's about all there is to it, really.

This is pretty much it. International intelligence compounded with our own left little doubt when and how we were going to be attacked. Nothing was done because it would have been, and was, an exploitable event that could be used to set the wheels in motion for wholly unrelated plans ie invading Iraq again which was proposed before 9/11. What kind of monster would let this happen? The kind of monster that would allow Pearl Harbor to happen because it was believed it was the only way to take care of a much larger problem. For me, that's as far as the similarities between Pearl Harbor and 9/11 go since Nazis were more of a threat than ghost ninjas who hide out in the mountains.

@Cucumba: Just about every intelligence agency there is has said there were no WMD in Iraq, and if there were any left over from the previous war, they'd be unserviceable and unusable. They initially thought there might have been bio/chem weapons there, due to faulty intel, but through extensive research and intel gathering they came to the conclusion that they were, in fact, wrong as was any pretense for going into Iraq. Afghanistan is a different situation, but we ****ed up pretty bad there too.

 

[Deathshot]

Do you think this could have been stopped before it happened?

 

[Boogyman93]

I believe that the US government faked the whole thing just so that they would have a reason to start a war with Iraq to take their oil. What dose the US government care about some people dieing as long as they make money. When the pentagon was hit I think it was ment to make us believe that those people flying the planes were rely terrorists since the government wouldn't start killing themselves. The people involved in all this were probably evacuated from that side of the building when the plain hit.
And this is not some anti US **** I made up because I hate the US or something. This is what I believe happened since all the governments arround the world are very corrump and hungry for money.

 

[Deathshot]

The only thing that gets me is that... 5 people on a plane vs 30 to 50 people?