Character attack customization and gameplay option

[DaRkOwNs]

I know this has been suggested before but I think it's a pretty good idea. Lengthy, but give me a chance.

Here's my suggestion: More attack customization. I would greatly prefer if the character system were a little more in-depth than pick Goku or Piccolo. I think it would be a better option to add slightly more customization in there and possibly add in more abilities without unbalancing anything. So here's my idea on that.

Edit: Just to clarify, this idea is only an example of concept. If there is significant interest in this I can go further into balancing the attacks per points/character and the "class" idea of the suggestion below, including more options for both "classes" to use against each other and other attacks.

Goku:
10 points to spend.
Big spirit bomb 5 points - functions as it does now, 10 second charge
Small Spirit Bomb 2 points - 3 second charge, much weaker
Solar Flare 4 points - wide radius
gen beam/ball 1 point
ki blasts 1 point
Kamehameha 3 points
Torpedo's 3 points
Kaioken 8 points - disables teleports while in use, expends stamina, no room for other attacks. Increases swoop speed and recovery.

There would also be a default Goku for those who don't want to spend any time on this and a "saved" Goku from your previous session and of course this is just a low thought out version of it. In this way, we can add more attacks to players without unbalancing anything. Now check out Krillin for an extension on the Spirit Bomb options.

Krillin:
10 points
Ki Blasts 1 point
Gen Blast 1 point
Kamehameha 3 points
Scatterblast/beam 4 points
Destructo Disk 5 points
Combat Destructo Disk 2 points - replaces ki blasts, does slightly more damage but no explosions. Smaller, slightly slower than ki blasts, can continue through to damage other characters. (Would consider it more of a cutting action rather than dividing large objects in half)

Here's my other part to the customization idea. Lets do some personal editing with the attacks. Not by like budokai standards where everything goes, but why can't some attacks be more localized and accessible? We don't need to follow the exact mechanics the show and manga distributes. It would make Krillin feel much more bad-ass to be machine gunning destructo disks, even if they don't insta-kill.

That's the end of the Customization design. I have many more ideas for extra attacks but lemme know what you think and if you have any extra ideas.

Gameplay Options
What I mean by this is clearly defining long range and short range combat. When I say that, I don't -specifically- mean long and short. A caster class would have some melee options and a melee class would have cast options but the aim of both classes would be to either stay away and beam/blast enemies to death, and get in close and wreck shit.

The reason for the above suggestions is to give people this option to choose or bend classes. Gearing one character to have strong ranged capabilities but having ways to get away if they need to. Kaioken and similar abilities would be pure melee characters, of course. Stuff like Solar Flare and Combat Destructo disk would be for long range as a defensive trigger and AoE seperately.

Now, what I'm thinking in this is that you can still melee as a caster, and maybe you have the option similar to the above. Like an option in the customize menu similar to:
Physical melee (fists and feet)
or
Energy melee (close range explosions and blasts, like if you ran up and threw a gen beam in someones face at point blank range. Works exactly the same as melee.)

This wouldn't be limited to simply melee, but maybe even come up with some more movement options and attack type customizations.

All this would do is make combat feel different, but that's important. It would be similar in advanced melee bursts, ranged characters consisting mostly of energy attacks rather than punches and kicks. The tier bonuses would be unchanged. They would have these options, because it's still gonna be unavoidable to melee at times, but you use melee and knockbacks to set up more energy attacks rather than setting up your next melee combo and also having the option to simply get away and inundate an enemy with energy abilities.

My goal is to make ranged combat as competitive and strategy based as melee. IMO this level of customization would be good for the mod simply because right now, admittedly not knowing -that- much about the game, the game is pretty doomed to not have much community. Unless we can get heavy on steam without being shut down. I would like the system itself to have enough personality and customization that the 20 or so of us that will be playing won't get bored with it in 6 months.

I know it's a low shot of stuff like this being added in this stage in the game, or even being seen, but something similar would be worth waiting for.

 

[Zeonix]

I like where you're going with it, but I don't know that anyone would want to invest the time and effort required to actually make it work. Here's why.

1) In the case of stat alteration, why wouldn't I just put all of my points into ki blasts, kaioken and gen beams (if melee, ki consumption, swoop speed and other such stats aren't options)? I wouldn't have to alter how I play, and I'd be making the attacks that I do use even stronger. Is a guy who puts his points into spirit bomb, kame and torpedos really going to alter the battlefield? I think after a bit, someone would unveil their god stats, and everyone would copy that, kind of ruining the stat system altogether.

2) Class balancing, the most time-consuming portion of your suggestion. On the one hand, either melee is going to get nerfed or ranged attacks are going to become so powerful as a result of overcompensation for the sake of competitiveness that it's basically going to break the game. From there, we'll have to go through multiple rebalances to find some middle ground. I really don't think there is a middle ground, as some people think melee should be the bread and butter of any character, and others do not. Middle ground is hard to find in a game where everyone essentially plays solely for themselves, and personally, that's the biggest flaw in the game. I think we need some kind of objective that rewards team work, and that's where a class-based system would shine most brightly. If we had beamers acting as artillery, and melee users acting as shields and blockers, or artillery as support and melee as shock troops, the game would be wonderful. But the fact that we can fly from one side of the map to the other, no big deal, kind of takes way a lot of the strategy required to make such a system work. So now we need an objective. Defend/Destroy Korin Tower or whatever. The class system works again, but we're going to need a little more variety than protect/destroy X. Frankly, I think the scale of the game works against this concept entirely.

I digress. Should ranged combat be as competitive as melee? I don't know. The thing I hate most about 1.2 are people who run away entire matches, and the concept of making beams even better than they are seems to reward that kind of playstyle. A lot of effort, balancing, and testing would be required to get this kind of thing ingame, and would require even more to make it actually work well. I don't think they have the manpower, and unless they intend to continue developing ESF after 1.3, I don't see it happening.

 

[Son Gogeta]

Customization is kind of dumb. The whole Raging Blast 2 style would make it better. You have 4-6 different slots for attacks to choose from. Ki Blasts and Generic Beams are a standard of all characters.

 

[DaRkOwNs]

I like where you're going with it, but I don't know that anyone would want to invest the time and effort required to actually make it work. Here's why.

1) In the case of stat alteration, why wouldn't I just put all of my points into ki blasts, kaioken and gen beams (if melee, ki consumption, swoop speed and other such stats aren't options)? I wouldn't have to alter how I play, and I'd be making the attacks that I do use even stronger. Is a guy who puts his points into spirit bomb, kame and torpedos really going to alter the battlefield? I think after a bit, someone would unveil their god stats, and everyone would copy that, kind of ruining the stat system altogether.

I agree on that, I tried to make it a point to say that there would be more work involved on my part if it were to be accepted but I didn't want to spend an entire day trying to figure out a feasible approach if people called me an ******* for the suggestion. I would make differences in attacks and reasons not to get one or the other, but more on that when I hash it out completely. I want to make certain attacks more quick-fire and to be used in greater conjunction with melee, rather than the "range" class being a sit back and fire off attacks kinda thing.

2) Class balancing, the most time-consuming portion of your suggestion. On the one hand, either melee is going to get nerfed or ranged attacks are going to become so powerful as a result of overcompensation for the sake of competitiveness that it's basically going to break the game. From there, we'll have to go through multiple rebalances to find some middle ground. I really don't think there is a middle ground, as some people think melee should be the bread and butter of any character, and others do not. Middle ground is hard to find in a game where everyone essentially plays solely for themselves, and personally, that's the biggest flaw in the game. I think we need some kind of objective that rewards team work, and that's where a class-based system would shine most brightly. If we had beamers acting as artillery, and melee users acting as shields and blockers, or artillery as support and melee as shock troops, the game would be wonderful. But the fact that we can fly from one side of the map to the other, no big deal, kind of takes way a lot of the strategy required to make such a system work. So now we need an objective. Defend/Destroy Korin Tower or whatever. The class system works again, but we're going to need a little more variety than protect/destroy X. Frankly, I think the scale of the game works against this concept entirely.

I digress. Should ranged combat be as competitive as melee? I don't know. The thing I hate most about 1.2 are people who run away entire matches, and the concept of making beams even better than they are seems to reward that kind of playstyle. A lot of effort, balancing, and testing would be required to get this kind of thing ingame, and would require even more to make it actually work well. I don't think they have the manpower, and unless they intend to continue developing ESF after 1.3, I don't see it happening.

I see what you mean, and I had thought of that already. But the question is still raised, why even have beams? Because they have them in the show? I dunno about anyone else, but I don't feel incredibly powerful when I'm holding a kamehameha or a spirit bomb. It's just kinda meh. I'm hoping for a way to have beams, and they be an additive part of total gameplay. I, personally, don't have an amazing amount of ideas on that matter but I can think of a few ways to balance it if it were a method of fighting rather than an option everyone has. Both melee and ranged would get "class buster" abilities.

The problem with that is the lack of balance, Gogeta. If we just GIVE everyone access to any attacks they choose, people will just choose the absolute strongest and there's no balance to gameplay, and no capability of adding certain attacks (such as Kaioken, which is a big one that fans want) into the game.

 

[Zeonix]

I maintain that DBZ held back this mod's true potential.

 

[Son Gogeta]

I maintain that DBZ held back this mod's true potential.

I maintain without DBZ this mod would never exist. No one would play it. No one would be inspired to make it.

 

[DaRkOwNs]

Eh, I just think fanatical devotion to dbz held this mod back. Dragon ball is a great starting point, but no one ever seems to want to go outside the line a bit.

 

[Zeonix]

I maintain without DBZ this mod would never exist. No one would play it. No one would be inspired to make it.

That was great a decade ago. How much has it really helped? Considering they don't accept donations, not at all.

 

[Grega]

Well we are planing on having beams be more usefull though the bonus system, having targeting easier with the lockin and so forth. But we are also toying with the idea to have beams be primarily a stamina elimination mehthod with HL damage as extra. This means that if used with the correct approach, you can drop your opponents stamina with beams and move in for the kill while he is "exausted". Ofcourse not all beams would follow that pattern, and the actuall damage to stamina would differ, but it does give beams an additional usefulness, that melee doesnt have.

 

[Zeonix]

While you're at it, you should add a force push attack (Call it ki push, whatever) that can only be used on whatever side the enemy isn't facing. I'd probably end up making everyone quit because of it, but it's a pretty great idea, guys.

 

[DaRkOwNs]

Well we are planing on having beams be more usefull though the bonus system, having targeting easier with the lockin and so forth. But we are also toying with the idea to have beams be primarily a stamina elimination mehthod with HL damage as extra. This means that if used with the correct approach, you can drop your opponents stamina with beams and move in for the kill while he is "exausted". Ofcourse not all beams would follow that pattern, and the actuall damage to stamina would differ, but it does give beams an additional usefulness, that melee doesnt have.

I actually like that, but what real use is stamina currently? I'd think it'd have to be a much more inclusive element of melee for that to be a possibility..

What does stamina do, at this stage?

And shut yo ***** hole up, zeo. I'mma smack you, and cut you, and other things inner city gangs do apparently.