Dismemberment application for esf

[Stuart]

It would be interesting to incorperate a dismemberment application , where you are able to rip off , shoot off etc. any limbs that the player chooses or by fighting rendering what ever limb that has recieved an exponential amount of damage, useless untill you aquire some way to heal yourself or if you are the characters such as buu or piccilo you can regernerate the limbs that are damaged/removed. I think it would make the game alitte more interesting and innovative , although I am not sure how sohpisticated developing such a proccess in the game would be. I would like to hear your full thought on this subject.

 

[Mkilbride]

[video]http://youtu.be/WmxX8V8NBmc[/video]

BrainBread was a HL mod that had such destruction. Could blow arms off, half of faces of, ectera. Still, they said it was a performance killer. Dunno how viable it'd be in ESF. Also, seems like more work for the team...they have plenty already. I think we're fine with the DD just chopping people in half. Any more detail and that's not DBZ really. DBZ never really had that kind of thing except on Villains, or like you said Piccolo. Goku with one hand...would be weird. I just think it'd look crappy unless the team took alot of time to work on it...and they have enough to do.

Also, considering how many beam attacks are two handed...it'd give Piccolo, Cell, & Buu a crazy advantage, don'tcha think? Piccolo sure...I mean he can do his best attack with one hand, so it'd be like the start of DBZ really. I just don't see such a system fitting DBZ. It was always bloody as hell, some carnage here or there, but we never saw non-alien / monster people losing limbs.

 

[Grega]

Not really possible when the smallest explosion is bigger than your entire character.

 

[Stuart]

No not necisarliy, all the episodes of dbz , and the movies had some form of dismemberment or really bad/gory bodily harm more so in the uncute episodes, I mean on ample amount of ocasians goku had holes shot threw him , his arms were atleast rendered useless. Piccilo practilly had everything concievable done to him. krillen also had holes shot threw him or his limbs useless. buu in same boat with piccilo. freeza was chopped in half and was missing an arm. all of the characters that are going to be in the game had some form of damage that was major, so nothing is out of the norm. The developement team is basing the mechanics of the dbz show right? why not go all out. From what i've seen the game has a great control scheme , presentation and a has much to offer. So implementing such modification to the mod wouldn't hurt and I think it would be easy. Correct me if im wrong but couldnt you use sprites to just make the limbs disapear and altering a few codes so that only 1 arm of what ever limb is still viable able to use attacks?

 

[Viper]

Answer me this: How would dismemberment help with the gameplay?

 

[Dokutayuu]

ESF handles this with reference to the heavily censored dub ^^.

Being serious, it lowers performance and doesn't really add too much to the game. Even if it were purely visual, it'd involve multiple edits per model, which soon adds up. Considering how many characters there are, it'd be a massive workload and more information for the servers to handle. Which is a lot for something cosmetic. If it were to affect gameplay, it'd be fairly annoying. Imagine having your arms blown off with half your health left. A lot of people would suicide to get them back.

 

[Tenzo]

I know what ESF could have. Vaporization.
Like when a huge beam/ball hits and kills you then you go spooof. =)))

 

[Grega]

No not necisarliy, all the episodes of dbz , and the movies had some form of dismemberment or really bad/gory bodily harm more so in the uncute episodes, I mean on ample amount of ocasians goku had holes shot threw him , his arms were atleast rendered useless. Piccilo practilly had everything concievable done to him. krillen also had holes shot threw him or his limbs useless. buu in same boat with piccilo. freeza was chopped in half and was missing an arm. all of the characters that are going to be in the game had some form of damage that was major, so nothing is out of the norm. The developement team is basing the mechanics of the dbz show right? why not go all out. From what i've seen the game has a great control scheme , presentation and a has much to offer. So implementing such modification to the mod wouldn't hurt and I think it would be easy. Correct me if im wrong but couldnt you use sprites to just make the limbs disapear and altering a few codes so that only 1 arm of what ever limb is still viable able to use attacks?

Ahh but animations would have to be remade since they are all based on 2 hands. That aside simply hiding an arm wouldnt make it look good, you need it modeled so that results in triple the model count, animation variations for left and right hands missing, code checks to see what hand is missing so that both the attacker and defender can play the correct set of animations and the list goes on.

But back to my initial statement. If the smallest explosion (kiblast) is bigger than your character, how will you go round detecting damage and tearing off 1 limb when your entire character is engulfed in the explosion.

I know what ESF could have. Vaporization.
Like when a huge beam/ball hits and kills you then you go spooof. =)))

Go play the open beta and try it.

 

[Stuart]

Answer me this: How would dismemberment help with the gameplay?

Ill answer you with question. How would the rocks or all the visual stuff they are making for the characters help with the game? do you see where im going with this. Nothing , it would help the gameplay nor would it do anything. All I'm suggesting is a simple fun cosmetic ideal I know it doesn't do anything for gameplay other than looks except if they incorperate other things like what i've stated like rendering any limb that recieves a alot of damage. And also here is another thing, whats the point in dieing in the game? Nothing other then adding the falseness or appearance of something dieing in again , my idea is "absurd" as any other. It would add a fun style to it.

---------- Double Post below was added at 04:52 AM has been merged with this post created 04:48 AM ----------

Ahh but animations would have to be remade since they are all based on 2 hands. That aside simply hiding an arm wouldnt make it look good, you need it modeled so that results in triple the model count, animation variations for left and right hands missing, code checks to see what hand is missing so that both the attacker and defender can play the correct set of animations and the list goes on.

But back to my initial statement. If the smallest explosion (kiblast) is bigger than your character, how will you go round detecting damage and tearing off 1 limb when your entire character is engulfed in the explosion.



Go play the open beta and try it.

Well when that happens , then you would have tears in the clothing they have on or scarrs or some form of disfigurement when such a thing happens

 

[Shaladanra]

I know what ESF could have. Vaporization.
Like when a huge beam/ball hits and kills you then you go spooof. =)))

Didn't ESF 1.2 have that? I recall being vaporized when I got killed by a huge ball/beam, or perhabs it was bugs or something?

 

[Grega]

Didn't ESF 1.2 have that? I recall being vaporized when I got killed by a huge ball/beam, or perhabs it was bugs or something?

Nah you get blown to bits in 1.2.3, But the open beta already has it. Instead of the beam exploding, it kills you, and then continues on without an explosion.

 

[hleV]

The only case in which this would be useful is when you get killed by a disc. Otherwise you're blown up and there's nothing left out of you.
Yeah, your body should be removed when you're killed by a strong energy attack.

 

[Shaladanra]

Nah you get blown to bits in 1.2.3, But the open beta already has it. Instead of the beam exploding, it kills you, and then continues on without an explosion.

And that wasn't in 1.2.3? Perhabs I'm mixing up Open Beta and 1.2.3, because I'm pretty sure that I've been vaporized in 1.2.3 while the beam continued.. xD

 

[Tenzo]

Well yeah vaporization/disintegration accompanied by a neat effect. That's what i meant.
I don't remember the OB having an effect for that.

 

[Grega]

Well yeah vaporization/disintegration accompanied by a neat effect. That's what i meant.
I don't remember the OB having an effect for that.

No it didnt have an effect. It didnt have MANY effects. It was missing animations, it was missing models, it was missing sounds. Why do you expect for the open beta to be a 100% complete build?

Well when that happens , then you would have tears in the clothing they have on or scarrs or some form of disfigurement when such a thing happens

Ahh right. BUT each tear would require a remake of the model and reanimation of the hole in the clothes in order to look good. So say you only add 2 holes that are formed at different times on Gokus clothes. You would need the following versions of Goku.

Goku - normal
Goku - both holes formed (remake of all animations to add the cloth fragment movement)
Goku - 1. hole (remake of all animations to include cloth movement)
Goku - 2. hole (remake all animations to include the other cloth movement)

Now Goku has 4 forms all together going from Normal to SSJ3. Multiply the numbers and you end up with 16 models with over 500 animations per model for just 1 character.

Can it be done with sprites and decals. Yes, but it wont look nearly as good.

Now regarding your question about our visual upgrades that dont add anything to gameplay. The biggest upgrade were the maps. And they are indeed a gameplay upgrade, since with that implementation we are no longer restricted by Half Life map sizes.

The rest are effects that spawn models and sprites like your regular ESF 1.2.3

There are shaders that are used, but they add an atmosphere to the maps.

But back to my question. The kiblast is as big as Gokus chest, and its explosion is bigger than Goku himself. How would you go round calculating damages for this system and not end up with the same result over and over namely all limbs falling off at the same time cause the damage is spread amongst all equally due to explosion sizes.

 

[nemesis2290]

Unfortunately I believe with the current game engine that'd be a bit hard to do considering how many models they'd have to produce

I do however like the idea, maybe possible seperate body parts taking damage, where ever the ki blast hits originally, and scaling to small are the further away from the pinpoint center you are.

Gohan for instance, lost the use of his arm and did a one handed kameha which, c'mon, we all thought that part of the cell saga was pretty badass ^^

So basically, good idea, wrong game :\ maybe...just maaaaybe...if they had a custom game engine..heheh xD Keep dreamin' right?

Imho, I think ESF Final will easily be good enough as it is, every video I see of gameplay honestly surprises me and keeps me wanting more. You COULD however go to the forums of Zeq2lite (ick) and suggest the same thing there, see how they take it.

 

[Tenzo]

No it didnt have an effect. It didnt have MANY effects. It was missing animations, it was missing models, it was missing sounds. Why do you expect for the open beta to be a 100% complete build?.

I know a thing or two about the OB. And i don't expect it to be a 100% complete build. I never said that.
I was just suggesting a neat/cool effect for that disintegration thing(if it's not already in the works) for ESF: Final. That's all.

 

[Grega]

If its in there, then it will have an effect or something like that dont you think ^^;

 

[Tenzo]

Surely, yeah. But it has to be cool. It's a must.

 

[Stuart]

Ahh but animations would have to be remade since they are all based on 2 hands. That aside simply hiding an arm wouldnt make it look good, you need it modeled so that results in triple the model count, animation variations for left and right hands missing, code checks to see what hand is missing so that both the attacker and defender can play the correct set of animations and the list goes on.

But back to my initial statement. If the smallest explosion (kiblast) is bigger than your character, how will you go round detecting damage and tearing off 1 limb when your entire character is engulfed in the explosion.



Go play the open beta and try it.

lol the body has different densities , different structures of bone , just because your shot with something does not mean you be provided with the same outcome everytime that would happen. You could randomize the effects. Nothing is impossible and it is ignorant to think so. The team has hacked the coding from the hl engine and done ample amount of altercations. And there is probably a easier way to develope characters other than verticies , I think someone has mentioned this on one of the forms. Mostly anything has a easier process whether it be developing a game , or building a house or vehicle there is always short cuts , the hard thing is figuring out the shortcuts.

---------- Double Post below was added at 11:21 PM has been merged with this post created 11:15 PM ----------

Unfortunately I believe with the current game engine that'd be a bit hard to do considering how many models they'd have to produce

I do however like the idea, maybe possible seperate body parts taking damage, where ever the ki blast hits originally, and scaling to small are the further away from the pinpoint center you are.

Gohan for instance, lost the use of his arm and did a one handed kameha which, c'mon, we all thought that part of the cell saga was pretty badass ^^

So basically, good idea, wrong game :\ maybe...just maaaaybe...if they had a custom game engine..heheh xD Keep dreamin' right?

Imho, I think ESF Final will easily be good enough as it is, every video I see of gameplay honestly surprises me and keeps me wanting more. You COULD however go to the forums of Zeq2lite (ick) and suggest the same thing there, see how they take it.

It practically is custom , the meer fact that they've dramatically enhanced every aspect of the game tells otherwise. and even if a game was'nt made for altering there still is a way.