World of Warcraft: The Wrath of the Lich King

[elNarr]

Well , the damage that ret is able to dish out is ridiculous. I've seen many pvp videos after AoW nerf, where they basically 2-3 shot everyone (yes, there were also full s3 + vindicator / guardian warriors and so forth.. ), not giving them a single chance to attack back ( i can give the link to this particular video where this one ret pally solos most of the instances as well as showing that pvp content).

As i said, this thing will get evened out . The main reason to bring ret paladin to raids is the utility anyway , but not in tbc thanks to holy paladin being able to give almost the exact same benefits to others, other than the +2% melee dmg to their respectful group.

This thing will change in WotLK , though.
And i feel that i do need to remind that paladins are a hybrid class and should _not_ compete near the same level of dps as the pure classes do and make up for this with the utility they can give to everyone.

 

[Pieter Paul Rubens]

In the WotLK Beta atm, Ret Paladins -are- overpowered.. They can often two-shot or even one-shot any player with their bugged-out seals.

Class balance is the only thing I'm fearing for in this expansion, the rest is pretty much finished for a release, but all the changes they've made to all the classes and mechanics might be catastrophic.

 

[Skiwan]

Well , the damage that ret is able to dish out is ridiculous. I've seen many pvp videos after AoW nerf, where they basically 2-3 shot everyone (yes, there were also full s3 + vindicator / guardian warriors and so forth.. ), not giving them a single chance to attack back ( i can give the link to this particular video where this one ret pally solos most of the instances as well as showing that pvp content).

I've only ever been able to 3 shot clothies in tbc (hammer of justice pop wings, judge, seal of command proc and crusader strike), granted my gear isnt that great but i dont see how plate wearers in full vindicator or better could be 2 or 3 shotted, the fact is you need 3 crits to be doing standard damage (without vengence up dont expect getting any damage on any attack greater than around 1.5k) then you also need to crit with all attacks on people with enough resilience to equate to -20/25% crit chance and 10/15% damage reduction on crits. Then looking at plate wearers which have about 30-40% less damage taken by all but judgements, and any good pvper has about 11-12k health I don't see how they can be 2-3 shotted unless the paladin is able to pull out 4-6k crits which seems a little extreme to me. Then again I've been 3 shotted by S3 fire mages with ease.

If you're talking about wotlk I wouldn't know, i haven't played it, but I've looked at the talents and the changes they've been making and i can understand some concerns, but beta's are never near the final outcome so I wouldn't worry.

but anyhows, sometimes me and my friend have fun on his shaman, 1 shotting clothies with stormherald.

 

[Mr.Lukyas]

Enhancement Shaman: Frost Shock, Shamanistic rage, Bloodlust Stormstrike, Earthbind/Strenght of Earth/Grace of air/Searing totems, Frost Shock, Stormstrike, Nature's Swiftness, Healing wave, Flame shock, Stormstrike.

Protection Paladin: Hammer of justice, Seal of Crusader, Judgment, Seal of Crusader, Consecration, Holy Shield, Avenger's Shield, Devine Shield, Holy light, Holy light, Hammer of Justice, Seal of Righteous, Judgment, Seal of Crusader, Hammer of Wrath.

Shadow Priest: Shadow Word: Pain, Vampiric Embrace, Mind Soothe, Mind blast, Power word: shield, Psychic Scream, Mind flay, Mind Flay, Mind Blast (NOTE: No smite nor heal because I do this in shadow form doh)

So, that's how I own.

 

[Skiwan]

Protection Paladin: Hammer of justice, Seal of Crusader, Judgment, Seal of Crusader, Consecration, Holy Shield, Avenger's Shield, Devine Shield, Holy light, Holy light, Hammer of Justice, Seal of Righteous, Judgment, Seal of Crusader, Hammer of Wrath.

what exactly are you trying to own with that?

 

[elNarr]

I've only ever been able to 3 shot clothies in tbc (hammer of justice pop wings, judge, seal of command proc and crusader strike), granted my gear isnt that great but i dont see how plate wearers in full vindicator or better could be 2 or 3 shotted, the fact is you need 3 crits to be doing standard damage (without vengence up dont expect getting any damage on any attack greater than around 1.5k) then you also need to crit with all attacks on people with enough resilience to equate to -20/25% crit chance and 10/15% damage reduction on crits. Then looking at plate wearers which have about 30-40% less damage taken by all but judgements, and any good pvper has about 11-12k health I don't see how they can be 2-3 shotted unless the paladin is able to pull out 4-6k crits which seems a little extreme to me. Then again I've been 3 shotted by S3 fire mages with ease.

If you're talking about wotlk I wouldn't know, i haven't played it, but I've looked at the talents and the changes they've been making and i can understand some concerns, but beta's are never near the final outcome so I wouldn't worry.

but anyhows, sometimes me and my friend have fun on his shaman, 1 shotting clothies with stormherald.

Yes, I was talking of WotLK the whole time. In tbc, the burst they are able to do is pretty much ok.

And I also implied that everything gets evened out once the beta ascends further , just told that ret paladins , dks , fury warriors are op as it stands on the current build.

And to Lukyas : that's not how you're supposed to do your tps cycle..

More like :

AW > AS > SoR > Holy Shield ( the mob should be almost near you at this point ) > Conc. > JoR > HS > Conc~

At soloing, you may want to use JoL and SoL or JoW and SoW , as well as rank 2-4 concecration for minimum downtime.
The reflective dmg from holy shield, BoSanct, Ret. aura will make up for the loss of dps.

I don't understand why you included HoJ to your cycle, or SoTC..
Is your purpose to PvP as prot ? Well, that isn't going to go well unless you are fighting against a rogue or a warrior...

If you want to be defensive while pvping, go holy for something's sake.

 

[Mr.Lukyas]

what exactly are you trying to own with that?

Alliance.wtf10chars.

 

[elNarr]

Also, you just simply cannot list the tactics of how you would do your cycle against others in PvP. PvP is all about the element of changing and surprise, so you have to observe and try to counter the enemy if possible.

 

[Mr.Lukyas]

I was presenting my usual PvP. With "usual" I mean against Rogues/Paladins/Warriors, the most played classes.

 

[Skiwan]

lol prot as a pvp spec? seriously.... lol XD


btw, fury warriors and rogues are the only thing you'll beat as prot, if your gears good enough, just keep holy shield, retribution aura and blessing of sanctuary on, and let them hit you and they'll just kill themselves. I've done this to many rogues/fury warriors, no matter what gear they have, they wont eat through 17k of hp before all their attacks kill themselves.

 

[elNarr]

Lukyas, then your tactics are completely wrong.

As a shaman, you most likely would try to outlast the paladin, even if he was ret.
Once he starts healing, wait for him to interrupt it so your r1 ES won't go to waste. At the very end of that casting ( FoL running at around... 1.2 sec casted ), cast r1 es to interrupt it for 2 seconds.

You need to heal, and stay very mana efficient. Against a warrior, you will surely use earthbind and try to get distance.

Against rogues, well, you have no chance at all except try to nuke as fast as you can.

Enhancement sucks against melee classes.

I'm pretty sure that the spriest-cycle is wrong as well, i don't know though.
I will ask my guildie how he rolls later on.

 

[Skiwan]

A good shaman will beat any prot paladin since all of a paladins moves are self buffs except judgement and hammer of justice, shamans will just purge everything you try to do and windfury you in the back as much as he can while searing totem is a thorn in your side.

 

[elNarr]

Yes, any spec of shaman beats a prot pally pretty easily, really.

Not going to do well against a ret / holy pally though, unless the shaman is smart enough to swap to a shield while the ret pally is still using a 2h..

 

[Mr.Lukyas]

Way to unstealth the Rogue
Shaman: Fire Nova/Searing totem+Earthbind
Paladin: Consecration
Priest: dunno, just go fade and put shield on and wait
Mage: Arcane Explosion/Blizzard
Warrior: dunno
Rogue: dunno just go stealth too
Hunter: erm... doesn't matter, when he saps and strikes, your pet will defend you
Warlock: Paranoia dog/Fire rain
Druid: dunno, go stealth too

 

[Skiwan]

I dunno me and my shaman friend played resto vs prot and the fight lasted about 15 mins, all he did was kite me and I kept seal of wisdom on him so i'd have enough mana to heal, he used 2 mana pots in the fight while I used none, and I finally beat him with a nicely timed hoj and a hammer of wrath. It was a long fight cuz i used my bubble 3 times

Hunters have the best stealth detection lukyas, if you see a rogue and he stealths (not vanishes) after you've set your pet on him, you pet will still go to attack him, they also have track stealth which decreases the effectiveness of all stealthed to the hunter by 1 level, and they also have flare that shows any stealthed player within the range of flare, plus hunters pets on agressive mode will attack any stealthed players it detects all by itself. All you need to do is drop a trap in your flare and jump about inside and around the edges, sooner or later the rogue will appear. Also hunters mark will stay on through normal stealth, they have to vanish/clos to get rid of it.

 

[Mr.Lukyas]

Right I totally forgot flare and mark

 

[Kaination]

Warlock: Paranoia dog/Fire rain

LOL

Paranoia Dog? LOL.

It's a felhunter.

Hunters have a flare, don't forget. Flares + traps = gg for rogues. They should be generally easy to spot as a rogue, but it might still fool some people.

 

[Mr.Lukyas]

LOL

Paranoia Dog? LOL.

It's a felhunter.

Hunters have a flare, don't forget. Flares + traps = gg for rogues. They should be generally easy to spot as a rogue, but it might still fool some people.

Frost traps are amazing indeed. Dunno if they can detect vanished rogue though.

 

[Kaination]

Frost traps are amazing indeed. Dunno if they can detect vanished rogue though.

they can't.

but if a rogue is dumb enough to walk into it, then you're gg'd.

a hunter can sit on a trap and if the rogue gets close enough, he'll touch it.

edit: wtf would fade do as a priest? just waste mana, lols. No good would come from fading.

 

[elNarr]

If a preist fades in baddle it comes invisable adn te rouge dosent has threat so he cnat atack and passses to other mob-.. Playr, amirite??????