World of Warcraft: The Wrath of the Lich King

The Duke of Juke
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I didn't say I don't. I just said it is none of his business.

BTW, for PvP Death Knight, Unholy or Blood?
You didn't here, but it's obvious in another thread you do. Either way, since this thread actually is discussing legitimate servers as well, it's cool. Either way, private server discussion here falls under no discussion of warez, so keep the discussion to Blizzard's servers.
 
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I kind of half agree with you bolteh, but Hybrids shouldn't be a half assed version with each spec, they should be fully viable for the amount of time that people play the game, they shouldn't be penalized for class they rolled and spec they decided. I do however think they should be specialised in certain areas, but decent enough in the others. Take for example tanking, Warriors are the all round best tank, they have high single target threat, great abilities like Last stand, preventative measures, anti fear(stance dance) etc, they are the most even balanced tank, but paladin tanks can tank mulitple mobs like they're play things, but stick them in-front of a slow hard hitting boss and you better have some good healers with you. Druids are like walking shields when tanking, they hardly get scratched, but holding more than 2 mobs is a chore for them, on slow hard hitting bosses they can tank rather well since their single target threat is awesome and their damage reduction is absurd, put them against a fast attacking boss and they're a strain on the healers since they have to take crushing blows (cant be immune unlike war/pal) and if you get 2 in a row, you're pretty much a dead bear. These things seem to be changing in the expansion though (especially since crushing blows are going), they're narrowing down the stats and making classes more generalised.

I'm not exactly against this since I haven't played wotlk yet, but I'm assuming its also to cope with the fact that all new raids will be playable as 10 man, which imo for a casual player is the best decision they ever made, and if small guilds of friends (like the guild I made) can see end content without having to organise 25 people to all be online at a certain time every certain day that's brilliant. I for one never knew exactly when I was going to be online, so I much preferred going with my guild whenever they were on and having fun. I think blizzard have finally realised that it shouldn't just be completely hardcore players who get to see endgame, this is the one think that really urked me about wow, that dispite me spending the majority of my spare time playing the damn game, i needed to rely on 25+ (plus, since not everyone always plays at once) other people to get me there.

Then if you want me to talk about pvp... lol. Arena is fun, it is. My fav was 3v3 just because there was a massive mix of variations in the teams, but it wasn't absolute chaos. When you're playing other players arena is fun, but not when you're playing win teams who are grinding up a team to sell it. The win team I hate most are; Disc Priest - MS warrior, Resto druid - (add dps class here). I really dont understand why druid healers are so ****ing good, I play with my friends a lot, one of them has a druid, but he only tanks with it, he moved a while ago, and he didnt have the internet for 3 weeks, so he said i could play on his account. He'd got a few nice healing items from kara runs, but i went out and bought all the rep pvp set for healing to fill out the gaps gemmed him up and made a team with my other friend who plays an enhancement shaman, We won more times in a row than I ever did with any other team i was in with my paladin or my hunter, giving that I had only played a few BG's with the resto druid before hand, and I'd leveled both my other classes to 70 and played more than 70 days gametime between the 2 characters, this was a big slap in the face. Within a day of logging onto the character, I was earning more arena points than my main and my alt. Resto druids are rediculous. One team I was in we had a 10 min game against a druid healer and a mage, I was playing as my hunter, and my friend was resto shaman, I killed the mage in about 2 mins, after which I was chasing the druid around for the rest of the game. I had to actually wait untill my shaman friend could get mana tide back stick it down with aspect of the viper on and regen about 3/4 my mana bar, mean while the druid is running around in cat with prettymuch full mana, that was the worse arena game I ever played.

Battlegrounds went to **** for my battlegroup since horde would play for about 3 weeks evertime a season set was released for honor and you'd win about 70% of the games you join. After those 3 weeks, you'd find that you'd join a game and horde would be outnumbered 2 to 1 for the first 5 mins, in which alliance are going "bur bur" as they spawn kill your graveyard. This is because my battlegroup (the appropriately named "misery" had a horde side 1/3rd the size of alliance.

As for balance, 90% of the time I think its a L2P issue, since I've met people of every spec who have been outstandingly skilled. I play ret as my pally for pvp, mainly cuz i hate healing, but they've got incredible utility in pvp as well as having some pretty top notch burst damage, yet i still see people on the WoW forums complain "OMG RET IS USELESS WTF???" when I know paladins aren't useless, for a start in arena you're the only class that has a remote cc breaking device (blessing of sacrifice), you also have avenging wrath for those times you just wanna pound somebody down, or divine shield for those times you wanna soak up some damage and attention. Towards the end of my wowing I was trying to have more fun with the game, so i quit my arena teams and joined ones with my good friends on there, since I didn't really care about items, just wanted to have some fun, my fav was with my RL friend who's enhancement shaman, 2v2 with me as ret him enhancement shaman was the most fun I've had in my wow experience, mostly because we both were good players, we knew our classes and how each other played and there wasn't any resentment if we lost. We had some fun games as that combination, It's a surprisingly good combination too, I cant be cc'd while bos is on my friend (and can dispell cc upon him) and I had my tanking trinkets equipt (darkmoon card and commendation of kael'thelas) , so I'd always run in there at the start and soak up any damage and bubble/heal if it got too serious, or if they ignore me I'd pop avenging wrath, pound on a clothy/healer and blessing of protection the shaman, or if i needed too, blessing of freedom he has purge, heals, not to mention ghost wolf so he couldnt be sapped (again bos rocks for sapping) and bloodlust (BL and AW = pwned) and most importantly we both were burst damage. It was a really fun combination, but we'd fail against disc priest + ms warrior, almost everytime, paladin + ms warrior isnt so bad, since paladins cannot dispell buffs, and with my paladin I know how to eat druids healers for breakfast (seal of justice ftw).

Playing private servers is only 10% of the real experience. Trust meh.

I'm prattling on, i miss the game, I'll pick up Wotlk at some point but i dont wanna get as deeply into it as I did before.
 
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i have been leveling my Troll Priestess in the beta as 14/5x/0 i am enjoying its quite mana efficiant now kinda stoped since the EU server keeps world server down for northrend. i have to say i am enjoying the Death knight class currently leve 64 on her criting for 5k with Scourge strike as unholy ^^.
 
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Davidskiwan's Wall of Text hits you for 45983 Holy damage (critical).

I'm not going into further arguements about hybrids, as I tend to dislike them (I have a 70 of pretty much every class, bar Paladin, Druid and Lock) and thus don't know that much about them. But I don't think they should be decent in other aspects rather than the the they specialize in. There's only 1 pie, you can slice up that pie in 3 pieces or you can eat the whole piece, but you can't expect to get 3 pies. But nevermind.

About the casual stuff. Pre-TBC I was a hardcore raider, doing MC and BWL and quiting for the first time when the gong of AQ was being hit on my server. I quit because I started to dislike the whole hardcore attitude and the fact that (like you) I couldn't plan or predict when I'd be online. I've always put my real life on the frist place and I -will- drop WoW when I get a phonecall from my friends (even if I'm raiding or planend to raid). When TBC was released, someone told me it was made casualfriendlier in terms of having 10-man raid instances, heroics, achievable PvP rewards and arenas. So I picked up the game a week or so after the TBC release and I've been playing since. I'm in a casual raiding guild that only does 10-man content because everyone in this guild dislikes 25-man raiding (these are all old-school pre-TBC raiders that have grown tired of hardcore raiding). We put up raids and see if we have enough people online to go Kara or ZA. We create raids when we have enough people online, eventhough we didn't put a raid up for that day. I very much enjoy this kind of playstyle and I haven't grown tired of the game since I picked it up again.

WotLK seems to be bringing us more of the casualfriendliness and since I have access to the EU official beta-server, I can assure you that this expansion is -a lot- better than TBC in terms of quests, atmosphere and overall enjoyability.


Come to my server, David, we can have digital babies.
 
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I agree with what you say, Bolteh.

Hybrids should never excel at anything, but do a little of this and that instead.
Well, we haven't been doing that for the whole time of TBC thanks to gear having only the stats you need for the specific spec unlike pre-tbc.

My ' whining ' is not even close to what the majority do at paladin forums, the posts there just make you pissed off if anything because nothing of those posts are right.

Well , ok , they might tune us down a bit in single target healing.

But remember, single target healing is all we have.

Every other healer can do single target healing as well.
To make us less efficient in that part, we should get some aoe heal then to make us at least somewhat viable in raid healing, right?

I also never implied that Blizzard would hate paladins.

I always thought that paladins are more than fine . In fact, we need a nerf in WotLK for the ret paladins.

We are supposed to be a defensive hybrid, which means that we support others instead of doing damage dealing as the primary thing.

I have nothing else to say so i will leave it at this.
 
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@Fatal
I couldn't have said it better myself, I visit the class forums for warlocks daily and they track Kalgan's every move because of the way they screwed them . I mean warlocks ware pretty screwed as soon as they made resilience influence Dots.
And don't even get me started on his rogue girlfriend or warlock pet scalling.
There's no other stuff I know besides this. But I'm thinking paladins are taking it rough from what I see, then again in wotlk they're gonna do ALOT better against warlocks.

In wotlk I'll make my warlock a DK and stick with my Enhancement/Resto Shaman.

edit:
My shaman has mana troubles too. So my best ways for getting mana
1. Water Shield up constantly (except in PvP)
2. Begging Paladins for GBoW/BoW
3. Begging Druids for Innervate
4. Shamanistic Rage > Stormstrike (gives about 300 mana per hit which is 1200 mana with stormstrike + Sham Rage lasts long enough to use Stormstrike twice! + hits I score between Stormstrikes )
You do realize you're discussing about resto shamans and including an enhancement 41 talent spell and more, right?
 
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Well, i was partially agreeing that hybrids shouldn't be as good as a class completely devoted to that roll, but I still think they should definately be a viable option for that roll, as well as specialising in certain situations. It's a bit of a kick in the teeth for people when they're choosing what they want to roll and they think "man i wanna be a holy knight with mighty vengence" then 70 levels later, thousands of gold spent on items, enchants, gems and people are like, "Ret? lol no thanks". I rolled a Paladin because I went to heroic SL with my hunter with a paladin tank, and he really impressed me, I knew what I wanted, so i leveled like a mofo, and when i first hit 70 I had to endure an immense amount of people going "are you a healer?" and saying... no I'm a tank. After a while, i got people asking me to go to heroics all the time, infact at the point of quitting I could tank any heroic (apart from one or two parts of SH) without anyone using cc, so I'd get around 20+ badges a day if i found a nice group to grind with. Point is, you select a class based on how you want to play the game, certain specs not being a viable choice is retarded from a game designer point of view since a game like wow relies heavily on time investment and commitment. God knows that people shouldn't have to go through 70 levels to find that out. Then you have to remember hybrids are an incredible asset for a guild, especially druids/paladins, since they can change specs on the fly and fill whatever hole needs filling. Then you have to remember that if you want to be decent at any of the 3 specs you need the; gear(time), enchants(money grinding time) and gems(more money grinding time), which isn't cheap, to say that after doing all those things they shouldn't be as good as other healers/tanks/dps, its a kick in the teeth for sure. Lets not forget priests, warriors and shamans are hybrids too, to a lesser extent.

Dont nerf ret pallies, they've finally started getting close to other dps classes in dps. They've finally given them a cc, maybe people will take them along in groups D:

Oh, and bolteh, If 2 of my real life friends didnt play on the same server as me, I'd be there with ya <3
 
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If you play a class that has the ability to wear more than one set of gear. You're a hybrid.

Allow me to list the hybrid classes for you

Paladins
Shamans
Druids
Warriors
Priest
Death Knights (Wotlk)

Pure Classes:
Hunter
Rogue
Mage
Warlock

BUT FP NO WAI!!! WARRIORS AND PRIESTS ARE PURE CLASSES!

No they're not. Warriors and priests can fill 2 roles, healing and dps, tanking and dps. That's 2 different things, therefore they are hybrids.

As you can see, the majority is clearly in Hybrids.

Bolteh, you said you have a 70 of every class, except a select few, yet don't know much about hybrids.

Taking Paladins and druids out of the picture, I'm going to guess you have a 70 Warrior and Shaman. If this is true, then you play hybrids; classes you don't like. And don't know much about them.

Now i'm not bashing you, but you should take into consideration that - if a hybrid class can't fulfill each role that it can adhere to; what's the point in having hybrids in the first place?

Long story short: If blizzard brings down hybrids, then the end of the world (of warcraft) is upon us.
 
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Wow what abunch of *****ing and moaning.

So whos excited? Prot warriors holding 2h weps in one hand for a large stat bonus for tanking will be nice.

Warlock demon form should be interesting...


Druids get an out of comat rez..!.. at like level 70sh
 
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Umm...

Titan's grip, the talent which makes you able to use 2h-weapons as 1h is a deep talent within fury, so you can't have that as a prot warrior unless you seriously want to nerf yourself in terms of viability.

It will be really great to swap in arenas to though.
 
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So, what is in your opinion the OP class? I think OPs are mages with 5k frostbolt :S
Also, I think in WotlK Warriors are gonna beat mages. Two two handed weapons own. It would be cool for shamans to be able to use that + Stormstrike :D
 
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Right now, the most overpowered classes are Paladin ( only ret ) and Deathknight, and Warrior ( fury ). Of course , everything should get balanced out until release so you really can't say anything of this until release.

No class will be overpowered.
Different classes have different encounters. And now, after seeing the most recent changes of all, it certainly does feel like Blizzard wants to enforce that.

The only overpowered class right now is druid ( resto ), but that'll even out as well, as i've seen them take an extremely heavy beating.

Lionheart : Don't forget blind, gouge, wound poison, crippling poison/mind numbing poison, sap, hemorrhage , deadly throw, evasion , preparation, shadow step, sprint, vanish - etc..
 
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My bad, I thought it was a prot talent.

Cheap shot is 2 seconds. Kidney shot is one second per combo point, +1 for each rank of cheap shot.

Gouge stops when you attack them, and kick, well kick is just hilarious.

Good luck killing a rogue cloth casters.
 
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Sorry, but CS is 4 seconds and it awards 2 combo points. Add in premed for fun times! :>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
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Right now, the most overpowered classes are Paladin ( only ret ) and Deathknight, and Warrior ( fury ). Of course , everything should get balanced out until release so you really can't say anything of this until release.
Seriously... ret over powered? are you out of your mind? Let me remind you that to compete with other classes in TBC in terms of long term sustainable dps in a raid, you have to be a blood elf and have superior gear to everyone else in your raid to come close to having the same kind of dps output other classes have. Ret dps is appalling, its only nice with seal of blood and a **** load of haste rating and strength, the only things that ret paladins usually get taken to raids for is utility reasons. In pvp terms they're fine though, their survivability is their forte as well as their utility, they're damage output though is far from that of other melee dps, such as warriors shamans and rogues. Paladins get nice burst damage, but yet again enhancement shamans get much better burst damage, so do rogues.
 

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