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Why harsh?
Its a site thats as much pro obama as it gets throwing out ****loads of stuff that he set in motion.
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He's probably done more for America, than the last 10 presidents combined.
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Clinton?
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. . . not getting . . . into . . . political . . . debate.
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Nope, they're just censored words because it was obviously racism and I wasn't giving equal time to the opposing point of view.
/ding
Seriously though, this has become such a den of liberalism and progressivism (and in some cases, outright statism and socialism) that I know I will be defending any points I make against an echo chamber.
/ding
Seriously though, this has become such a den of liberalism and progressivism (and in some cases, outright statism and socialism) that I know I will be defending any points I make against an echo chamber.
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To be fair, you aren't usually the problem. In fact, no one user is. If I talk about religion, I get gang banged by at least 5 athiest. If I talk about AGW, there may only be one or two of you who are willing to debate, the rest tell me its settled science no matter how much I prove that there is no concensus and that the only thing constant about the enviroment is change. If I debate politics, nearly everyone on the board is liberal or progressive, most come from socialist countries, and again I'm shouted down.
Just for my own sanity, I try not to talk about it these days, because it obviously not appreciated and I really hate to say this, but a good chunk of people are close minded. Ironic, since I've been called that twice in the last thread where I talked about religion.
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Isn't not talking about it because other people don't like to hear what you have to say wrong in principal? I know you and I don't agree on a lot of things but I'm more than willing to hear your side on both religion and politics. The thing about religion though, is that it's much more global and easier for me to talk about than American politics - I'm not American and while I do try to stay informed, not a lot of what is happening in America in terms of politics has much of a direct influence on me.
So yeah. Don't keep your mouth shut because people here don't want to hear it. I might not want to hear it either. But at least I'll listen.
So yeah. Don't keep your mouth shut because people here don't want to hear it. I might not want to hear it either. But at least I'll listen.
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Well i see it like this. Socialism, communism and capitalism are all superb systems ... on paper. The problem are those corrupt morons running the systems.
Communism is about the everyone is equal deal.
Socialism is all about the working class.
And Capitalism is about opportunities one can achieve.
But in the end all systems work like crap cause a set minority of people are abusing them and bending the rules for their own good. Otherwise they are all equally good systems.
Though i allways say the following.
Communism and Socialism - You are screwed over all the time by someone and you cant do jack **** about it.
Capitalism - You are screwed over all the time, but they make it seem like you arnt ^^
So you are in the same situation either way only once you are a slave and the other time you are ignorant of your position ^^;
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Well, there really is a simple explanation! You're wrong! har har.
Personally, socialism doesn't work on it's own, neither does capitalism. However, when both are applied in a healthy balance, you end up with a decent country. A country were people enjoy a good life, with a high life expectancy, low suicide rate and a chance to actually make it if you work for it.
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I don't have a problem with liberalism, I have problems with progressivism, which has hijacked our Democratic party as much as the neo-con social conservatives tried to hijack the right (this hijacking is no longer a certain thing as the conservative period tea party has pretty much put social conservatives on notice). That said, a certain amount of social services is right and just for the country to do, but to do so at the pace that has been done these last two years not only frightens more than half our country, but it also sets us on the obvious course to diminishing America's global presence (not always a bad thing, I admit) and complete tear down of those who create wealth in this country. Once you have more socialism than capitalism, you end up like Greece or Ireland. Nobody works past age 50, but somebody has to pay for those social services. Its a ponzi scheme, and depends on increasing birth rates, which we just don't have. Good luck overcoming the baby boom with numbers.
That said, when I see someone say that he's done more than America than the last 10 presidents combined, I can't help but cringe. Because he really hasn't done anything but stall the recession. It hasn't gotten worse, bravo. Too bad unemployment keeps going up because a stagnated economy is exactly what puts people out of work. Companies shed jobs to stay open. In my line of work, I inspect materials for quality before I pass them on to production and allow accounting to pay for them. I have seen four huge suppliers go out of business since the recession started. Even my company, which survived the Great Depression without laying off a single person, had to shed thirty two positions and freeze hiring for a year. Congress, and Obama, then pass the stimulus package, and it does nothing but create jobs in government, enviromental sciences, and green energy, because every factory worker I know is clamoring to become an accountant for the IRS, go back to college for 4 years to be an earth sciences major, or learn how to make batteries for a car that can and will be built cheaper in southeast Asia.
He works towards suing states for a law that is actually more lax than the federal law. I'm a first generation American, with all of my family coming from Guatemala and Argentina, and no one in my house or family supports open borders and zero immigration control. I support controlled, careful immigration. Day laborers don't want to be Americans, they want to spend Amercian money in Mexico and be Mexican.
He closes Guantanamo before allowing it to stay open. Then he can't safely move them anywhere, nor can he appropriately try them and convict them.
He keeps up the wars that everyone wants to end by promising surges and telling our enemies they need to hold out this many years before he gives up.
He passes a health care law that forces me to buy something and punishes me if I don't, and then tells me that my premiums will go down and my coverage and doctors will not change. Well, now I can't drop my now absurdly expensive, massively changed health care that has less options than ever before. Sure you can blame the insurance companies for the up in the prices, but at a 3% profit margin they need to up the prices to match the new costs or they will go out of business. I'd wager that was the plan from the beginning, since he wants a path to single payer. Not to mention the fact that it cuts into the good, albiet needs reform, social services for our seniors to pay for illegals and kids who rarely use health care. I went almost 7 years from college to my first health care paying job, and I can safely say majority of Americans have survived a similar stretch. Now if I think about the laws full effect come 2014, I don't know how the hell I would have survived having to pay the titanic cost of health care all by myself through my various part time jobs. My current health care plan costs well over $600 every two weeks, and is by far, the largest deduction from my check. My company covers 2/3rds of that cost, bringing it down to $200, that was my ENTIRE pay after college for quite some time. Throwing the penalty under the tax code allows the federal government to sell my possesions to pay the penalty, it also allows them to jail me if I fail to pay. Sure they say they won't jail you, but how many of you honestly trust a politician?
He passes a Wall Street reform bill that only makes investors more skiddish, because more tension on wall street always stimulates growth and jobs. People with money don't know what will happen to their money, so they sit on it and hope he doesn't raise taxes.
He is striving to pass a energy cap and trade bill that will effectively triple my energy costs. I can barely pay my electric as it stands, at three times the cost I will have no choice but to burn candles and keep an old school ice box.
He actively engages in failed dialogue, it turns out N. Korea has been selling nuclear secrets to everyone they like, including Iran.
He genuflects, sometimes very incorrectly, to foreign leaders, breaking hundreds of years of tradition in the US, and violating the very spirit of our independence from the old world.
He talks of post racial america, and then divides it more than any US leader in history since the confederacy by refusing to try blacks in voter intimidation cases. He makes off the cuff comments about law enforcement where they were very well within their rights to deal with his collegue as they did. His party, and yes, his cabinet, plays the race card like he's trying to bust out a Racial Flush. I can't tell you how much, as a Hispanic, it makes me laugh when I see people call the tea party racist. I'm tea, I'm not white, and I'm off your mother****ing new plantation, deal with it.
He gets PRAWNED in the midterm elections, not just nationally, but on the state level, and then has the nerve to say we didn't understand what he was trying to do. Here's a clue, we understood all too well, and no one liked the direction you were going in. That's why there were two summers full of hostile town halls, not because they were filled with astroturf. So clearly its not his policy, its that we aren't as darned smart as he is. This may make him the most arrogant President we've ever had, even worse than Bush.
This isn't even close to comprehensive, I can go on for quite a while. Since the start of his presidency he's acted perhaps three times in ways I approve, and I'd have to go back through his policy dicisions to remember what they were because there are just so many things I don't like.
That said, when I see someone say that he's done more than America than the last 10 presidents combined, I can't help but cringe. Because he really hasn't done anything but stall the recession. It hasn't gotten worse, bravo. Too bad unemployment keeps going up because a stagnated economy is exactly what puts people out of work. Companies shed jobs to stay open. In my line of work, I inspect materials for quality before I pass them on to production and allow accounting to pay for them. I have seen four huge suppliers go out of business since the recession started. Even my company, which survived the Great Depression without laying off a single person, had to shed thirty two positions and freeze hiring for a year. Congress, and Obama, then pass the stimulus package, and it does nothing but create jobs in government, enviromental sciences, and green energy, because every factory worker I know is clamoring to become an accountant for the IRS, go back to college for 4 years to be an earth sciences major, or learn how to make batteries for a car that can and will be built cheaper in southeast Asia.
He works towards suing states for a law that is actually more lax than the federal law. I'm a first generation American, with all of my family coming from Guatemala and Argentina, and no one in my house or family supports open borders and zero immigration control. I support controlled, careful immigration. Day laborers don't want to be Americans, they want to spend Amercian money in Mexico and be Mexican.
He closes Guantanamo before allowing it to stay open. Then he can't safely move them anywhere, nor can he appropriately try them and convict them.
He keeps up the wars that everyone wants to end by promising surges and telling our enemies they need to hold out this many years before he gives up.
He passes a health care law that forces me to buy something and punishes me if I don't, and then tells me that my premiums will go down and my coverage and doctors will not change. Well, now I can't drop my now absurdly expensive, massively changed health care that has less options than ever before. Sure you can blame the insurance companies for the up in the prices, but at a 3% profit margin they need to up the prices to match the new costs or they will go out of business. I'd wager that was the plan from the beginning, since he wants a path to single payer. Not to mention the fact that it cuts into the good, albiet needs reform, social services for our seniors to pay for illegals and kids who rarely use health care. I went almost 7 years from college to my first health care paying job, and I can safely say majority of Americans have survived a similar stretch. Now if I think about the laws full effect come 2014, I don't know how the hell I would have survived having to pay the titanic cost of health care all by myself through my various part time jobs. My current health care plan costs well over $600 every two weeks, and is by far, the largest deduction from my check. My company covers 2/3rds of that cost, bringing it down to $200, that was my ENTIRE pay after college for quite some time. Throwing the penalty under the tax code allows the federal government to sell my possesions to pay the penalty, it also allows them to jail me if I fail to pay. Sure they say they won't jail you, but how many of you honestly trust a politician?
He passes a Wall Street reform bill that only makes investors more skiddish, because more tension on wall street always stimulates growth and jobs. People with money don't know what will happen to their money, so they sit on it and hope he doesn't raise taxes.
He is striving to pass a energy cap and trade bill that will effectively triple my energy costs. I can barely pay my electric as it stands, at three times the cost I will have no choice but to burn candles and keep an old school ice box.
He actively engages in failed dialogue, it turns out N. Korea has been selling nuclear secrets to everyone they like, including Iran.
He genuflects, sometimes very incorrectly, to foreign leaders, breaking hundreds of years of tradition in the US, and violating the very spirit of our independence from the old world.
He talks of post racial america, and then divides it more than any US leader in history since the confederacy by refusing to try blacks in voter intimidation cases. He makes off the cuff comments about law enforcement where they were very well within their rights to deal with his collegue as they did. His party, and yes, his cabinet, plays the race card like he's trying to bust out a Racial Flush. I can't tell you how much, as a Hispanic, it makes me laugh when I see people call the tea party racist. I'm tea, I'm not white, and I'm off your mother****ing new plantation, deal with it.
He gets PRAWNED in the midterm elections, not just nationally, but on the state level, and then has the nerve to say we didn't understand what he was trying to do. Here's a clue, we understood all too well, and no one liked the direction you were going in. That's why there were two summers full of hostile town halls, not because they were filled with astroturf. So clearly its not his policy, its that we aren't as darned smart as he is. This may make him the most arrogant President we've ever had, even worse than Bush.
This isn't even close to comprehensive, I can go on for quite a while. Since the start of his presidency he's acted perhaps three times in ways I approve, and I'd have to go back through his policy dicisions to remember what they were because there are just so many things I don't like.
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Though I really can't comment on everything here, I would like to add that when a father needs to work several jobs to keep himself and his family a float.. there is something wrong with the system as a whole. I don't know if it's the person's own fault, or the system as a whole, however, from what I hear, buying stuff with money you don't actually have is quite popular in the states.
Paying more $400 dollars a month for -basic- health care is outrageous, I honestly wonder why it's so expensive. Though it can't be worse then it used to be. Old statistics showed that Americans payed the most for healthcare (a head) while receiving, in comparison, horrible substandard care. Sure, it might cost you a rib, and yes, you might not always need it due too being healthy, however it's an insurance against the unexpected. You don't know when you'll be hit by a car and break a leg, but what you do know is that you won't lose your house when it happens.
Personally I think a proper fix for this would be that insurance companies no longer work towards making a profit, but work towards their purpose, which is help people who are in need. (I would go as far as making the entire health care industry government controlled, because in certain fields, it should not be an objective to make a profit.)
Also, my previous post wasn't meant to bait you or anything, just a little fake punch in the gut. didn't expect such a wall of text. However I'm sure you're glad you got it out of your system.
Paying more $400 dollars a month for -basic- health care is outrageous, I honestly wonder why it's so expensive. Though it can't be worse then it used to be. Old statistics showed that Americans payed the most for healthcare (a head) while receiving, in comparison, horrible substandard care. Sure, it might cost you a rib, and yes, you might not always need it due too being healthy, however it's an insurance against the unexpected. You don't know when you'll be hit by a car and break a leg, but what you do know is that you won't lose your house when it happens.
Personally I think a proper fix for this would be that insurance companies no longer work towards making a profit, but work towards their purpose, which is help people who are in need. (I would go as far as making the entire health care industry government controlled, because in certain fields, it should not be an objective to make a profit.)
Also, my previous post wasn't meant to bait you or anything, just a little fake punch in the gut. didn't expect such a wall of text. However I'm sure you're glad you got it out of your system.
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Woha wall of text
But i can see where you are coming from Cuc. Hes going full throttle and quite honestly it does seem like hes a puppet. But cant the people do anything about it though the justice system.
Like protest the health care bill with one of the amendments?
As for your health care costs. Im stumped. I myself pay round 50€ a month for all the insurance. Nowhere near 400$.
But i can see where you are coming from Cuc. Hes going full throttle and quite honestly it does seem like hes a puppet. But cant the people do anything about it though the justice system.
Like protest the health care bill with one of the amendments?
As for your health care costs. Im stumped. I myself pay round 50€ a month for all the insurance. Nowhere near 400$.
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Their old system was just inhuman and not of this time to be frank.Woha wall of text
But i can see where you are coming from Cuc. Hes going full throttle and quite honestly it does seem like hes a puppet. But cant the people do anything about it though the justice system.
Like protest the health care bill with one of the amendments?
I don't know how they introduced the current system. I don't know how much compromise went into it which might of made it worse then originally intended, but it's a needed change. This will insure a increase of life expectancy, hopefully reduce infant death and increase the over enjoyment of life. At least, that's what it should do in my opinion.
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Yes you goaded me back into it, lol.
In what sense do you mean horrible substandard care? Compared to Brittain where it is rationed? Canada where it is rationed and rapidly heading towards insolvencey? I have never felt that my health care was anything other than exemplary when I was able to pay for it. When you don't have it, it is terrible, because the cost of providing care is through the roof, thank you malpractice suits. Further, our health care system and military subsidises every other nation in NATO. We pay for the R&D, you get the cheap drug because your lawmakers force low costs. If we passed similar laws, countries like France, would be screwed overnight, because now they would not be able to keep their costs artificially low. Its the age old ponzi scheme of socialism applied at a global scale. What happens when everyone stops working? Further, you must realize that operating as a non-profit in the US would not work for these health care companies. As a for profit the do miserable, to put it into perspective, at 6% profit, my company freezes bonuses, hiring, and discretionary spending. 6% means you are just under breaking even (yay taxes!). 3% is a captial nightmare.
Our country has the highest taxes on business anywhere in the world, then they wonder why jobs don't grow, wages don't match inflation and why jobs flee overseas. Every huge govenment job pays 50% more than a private sector counterpart. That's absurd, and its easy to see why Joe America's back is being broken by Johnny Gubment working at the Department of Red Tape and Wallet Raping.
In what sense do you mean horrible substandard care? Compared to Brittain where it is rationed? Canada where it is rationed and rapidly heading towards insolvencey? I have never felt that my health care was anything other than exemplary when I was able to pay for it. When you don't have it, it is terrible, because the cost of providing care is through the roof, thank you malpractice suits. Further, our health care system and military subsidises every other nation in NATO. We pay for the R&D, you get the cheap drug because your lawmakers force low costs. If we passed similar laws, countries like France, would be screwed overnight, because now they would not be able to keep their costs artificially low. Its the age old ponzi scheme of socialism applied at a global scale. What happens when everyone stops working? Further, you must realize that operating as a non-profit in the US would not work for these health care companies. As a for profit the do miserable, to put it into perspective, at 6% profit, my company freezes bonuses, hiring, and discretionary spending. 6% means you are just under breaking even (yay taxes!). 3% is a captial nightmare.
Our country has the highest taxes on business anywhere in the world, then they wonder why jobs don't grow, wages don't match inflation and why jobs flee overseas. Every huge govenment job pays 50% more than a private sector counterpart. That's absurd, and its easy to see why Joe America's back is being broken by Johnny Gubment working at the Department of Red Tape and Wallet Raping.
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I can not approve or disapprove of that. I only know some small details of their old system. But you have to agree that 600$ every 2 weeks is just as inhuman.
@Cuc I lack the knowledge to address that, but over here the country is to busy reforming the retiring age instead of preventing people from giving out contracts to women that binds them to not have kids for a couple of years of they want to have a job. So they go "The population is aging, so we have to force people to work longer" instead of solving the issue where it counts.
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The substandard care I'm talking about is that insurance companies would go out of their way, to find an excuse, in order not pay claims. I'm sure that once you get proper care, it's excellent, because everyone is walking on their toes. One mistake results in a law suit. The system isn't perfect, that's for sure. However when you talk about "rationed" it usually goes for the less important situations. Like having a mole removed or what not. You won't end up in a situation were you die or lose a limb due too no one being available to help you.
As for research and development. I was secretly hoping you'd bring this up.
As for working for the government, It's actually funny, because over here, you're usually better off working in the private sector.
Also in regards to tax. I don't buy it. "Socialistic" European countries (Examples being Scandinavia) -should- have higher taxes, personal and business wise.
I skimmed over a wiki page, which said that corporate tax goes from 0% to 39% in the states. which would put you in the top10 world wide, for highest corporate tax. However, it's a big range. so I take it that the type of business you have influences the amount of tax you pay.
//edit.
We dutchies are in the top3 of highest individual tax rates.
Yeah we could do with some improvements too.
As for research and development. I was secretly hoping you'd bring this up.
Once again people trying to earn money over the backs of others. This is a perfect example of why costs are high. A middle man jacking up the price.
As for working for the government, It's actually funny, because over here, you're usually better off working in the private sector.
Also in regards to tax. I don't buy it. "Socialistic" European countries (Examples being Scandinavia) -should- have higher taxes, personal and business wise.
I skimmed over a wiki page, which said that corporate tax goes from 0% to 39% in the states. which would put you in the top10 world wide, for highest corporate tax. However, it's a big range. so I take it that the type of business you have influences the amount of tax you pay.
//edit.
We dutchies are in the top3 of highest individual tax rates.
Yeah we could do with some improvements too.
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