WAR is everywhere \o/

[Damaera]

@ Damaera - I'm pretty sure WoW doesn't use EverQuest 2's engine.

That's because it doesn't. Every single MMO uses it's own separate engine.

 

[Zeonix]

That's because it doesn't. Most MMOs use their own separate engine.

Champions Online and Star Trek Online are using the same engine.

 

[Spunky]

That's because it doesn't. Every single MMO uses it's own separate engine.

WoW, LotRO, and WAR use the same engine. Aside from their respective unique features and minor tweaks, they're the same.

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They all look the same. Even if each developer wrote a unique engine from scratch, they all look and feel the same. So again, hating on WoW for its gameplay would kinda make you a hypocrite because they're all the same.

But I do believe they use the same engine. I'd find it to be way too much of a coincedence for both LotRO and WAR to resemble WoW so strongly if it weren't so.

 

[Skiwan]

For some people the focus of the game (pvp/pve/rvr/quests etc) is a big part, but for me, I think the combat/encounter experience is paramount since that's what you're going to have to be doing throughout all of the above.

 

[Damaera]

It doesn't really matter if they all look the same. A lot of MMO's look a like.

Also, of course they have a similar combat system. What else is there other than attacking monsters and other players with spells?

I can't speak for LOTRO, but WAR and WoW are different, excluding the combat system and the UI.

Edit: Also, WoW is more for everything. Want to grind? As boring as it is, you're able to. If you want to PVP, you can PVP. If you want to raid, you can raid. While WAR is more focused on PVP, there are still raids and instances that you're able to do. (Also, please don't say WAR copied WoW with the instances, tons of MMO's have their own dungeons.)

 

[Almighty_Gir]

lol, looking the same doesn't mean they ARE the same.

there were mmos around long before WoW, which used very similar layouts. it's a proven formula that works.

what makes the difference for me, is the fluff. Warhammer has such an extensive back catalogue of fluff (lore) for every race, every major character, and each game in general, that it's frankly amazing. while there is SOME good lore in WoW, it's not as deep, not by a longshot. probably the most complex character in WoW lore, is Kil'Jaeden, and even he isn't that difficult to bend your head round, especially if you compare him to the likes of Nagash, Malekith, Horus, or even Gotrek.

not to mention the art styles, personal preference once again, but i've alwas hated how WoW looked. it was too childish, and that made it impossible for me to immerse myself in it. it was almost like it was trying to be high fantasy for a 5 year old.


in terms of gameplay itself... wow there's so many things i could say. the main one being, at least in WAR, your classes actually have a job. in WoW, i found no matter what class i was, i had to be a jack of all trades when it came to pvp. you can't force other players to attack you, so it's impossible to tank efficiently. you can't hold up a line of fighters at a bridge, because they can just run straight through you.

in WAR, if you have a group of 2-5 tanks, who are doing their job right, with a healer or two in support, and some wizards blasting the crap out of things from the backline, you're almost guaranteed to win, unless the enemy can think of a strategy to get round you.

you CAN grind in WAR if you want to, you can knock yourself out as far as quests go, and they are actually pretty good at helping "newbies" to the genre, find out about the background of warhammer. but the game is very definitely geared toward pvp.

it's all little things, but they are things that i always hated about WoW, that they got right with WAR.



about the engine thing. WAR, and DAOC use the same engine. LOTRO uses the same engine as DDO, WoW uses it's own engine. typically dev studios will stick to their own engines.

 

[Damaera]

Also, you're able to level solely by doing PVP. I believe WoW copied that. Either way, MMO's copy each other, it's nothing new.

 

[Kaination]

Also, you're able to level solely by doing PVP. I believe WoW copied that. Either way, MMO's copy each other, it's nothing new.

I believe you're horrendously mistaken.

You can't gain levels by pvping. You gain honor, but not levels, lest you do a one-time pvp quest.

 

[Skiwan]

tanks in pvp? seriously?

there's 3 roles in pvp in wow, dps(glass cannons) utility (cc, dispels, useful buffs/debuffs etc) and healers. You cannot be effective in all three area's with any class. In pve you have the 4th role, tanks, i dont care what class the tank is, if he's pvping he's just an annoyance that any good player will ignore, when they see he's got 16k health they'll just select the clothie and kill him instead.

Saying there aren't roles in WoW... my god, what wow did you play?

In the end its all just taste, I just don't see any reason to pick this up over Wotlk atm.

 

[Almighty_Gir]

lol, being a tank in WAR is awesome fun, being able to take on two melee dps at a time is great, until you get gangraped by a whole horde of them.

but like i said, it adds a whole other level of strategy to the game, and while it's awesome fun just to have a massive ruck in the middle of the rvr scenarios, it's also great fun to hold the fort, shoot people with canons, pour boiling oil on them, then go to their castle, and batter down the door with a battering ram. all while trying not to get ganked by the 20+ witchelves and marauders who are desperately trying to cut you to ribbons.

 

[Spunky]

lol, looking the same doesn't mean they ARE the same.

True. But look at all of the minor details that strongly resemble WoW. Any regular WoW player will recognize the engine immediately. Not even so much the interface (which looks like a direct copy of WoW's) as the way things feel.

there were mmos around long before WoW, which used very similar layouts. it's a proven formula that works.

Being similar is one thing. All MMOs have a similar layout. However, WoW, LotRO, and WAR aren't just similar. They have the same layout.

what makes the difference for me, is the fluff. Warhammer has such an extensive back catalogue of fluff (lore) for every race, every major character, and each game in general, that it's frankly amazing. while there is SOME good lore in WoW, it's not as deep, not by a longshot. probably the most complex character in WoW lore, is Kil'Jaeden, and even he isn't that difficult to bend your head round, especially if you compare him to the likes of Nagash, Malekith, Horus, or even Gotrek.

Ok, I guess that's fair enough. I'm not big into the lore for MMOs, but I can see how that might be appealing to certain people.

not to mention the art styles, personal preference once again, but i've alwas hated how WoW looked. it was too childish, and that made it impossible for me to immerse myself in it. it was almost like it was trying to be high fantasy for a 5 year old.

Dude, WoW uses Warcraft 3's graphics engine. It's meant to look like you're in Warcraft.

in terms of gameplay itself... wow there's so many things i could say. the main one being, at least in WAR, your classes actually have a job. in WoW, i found no matter what class i was, i had to be a jack of all trades when it came to pvp. you can't force other players to attack you, so it's impossible to tank efficiently. you can't hold up a line of fighters at a bridge, because they can just run straight through you.

I don't like the models being solid entities. People could grief so hard by blocking your passage into certain areas. It would get so annoying. That's why I like WoW, they've thought of all of that.

you CAN grind in WAR if you want to, you can knock yourself out as far as quests go, and they are actually pretty good at helping "newbies" to the genre, find out about the background of warhammer. but the game is very definitely geared toward pvp.

Play on a PvP server in WoW. They set things up in a nice, logical way to prevent griefing while still allowing people enjoy themselves.

about the engine thing. WAR, and DAOC use the same engine. LOTRO uses the same engine as DDO, WoW uses it's own engine. typically dev studios will stick to their own engines.

Hmm, you're right. Looked it up, both use the Gamebryo engine. But it still resembles WoW to the point where you might as well just play WoW. It's like they looked at WoW and said, "Let's do that, but use our **** instead of theirs." It's just like yahtzee said (even though I think the guy is a moron), "Every MMO is trying to be WoW."

So I was wrong about WAR. But I am still fairly certain that LotRO uses Blizzard's engine.

 

[Zeonix]

True. But look at all of the minor details that strongly resemble WoW. Any regular WoW player will recognize the engine immediately. Not even so much the interface (which looks like a direct copy of WoW's) as the way things feel.

Being similar is one thing. All MMOs have a similar layout. However, WoW, LotRO, and WAR aren't just similar. They have the same layout.

City of Heroes has a pretty identical interface and look about it. But, you know, it came out before WoW. WoW didn't invent the interface most MMOs use. It simply borrowed it from older games like Lineage and Everquest. It's kind of silly to say all of the games are the same simply because they look similar.

 

[Spunky]

That's not what I said at all though Zeo. I said most don't, but those three did.

 

[Almighty_Gir]

you only have noclip during PVP instances. through every other area of the game, you can walk through people.

and being that the only time order/destruction ever interact anywhere in the game, is during pvp. your argument is pointless.

LOTRO and DDO, are developed by Codemasters. they DEFINITELY don't use someone elses engine lol.



what your basic argument is, is that everyone is copying wow. which isn't true. wow copied everyone else.

that's not to say they are wrong for doing it. by copying the best bits of everyone, they came up with a winning formula. but the next expansion is already proving they are running out of ideas.

 

[Zeonix]

And again, City of Heroes has basically the same exact layout, and came out before WoW. WoW didn't take the layout from CoH. It took the layout from games that inspired CoH and WoW. Saying the layout is the same is fine and dandy, but it really doesn't matter because, even if they had the same engine, gameplay for each of the aforementioned mmos is different enough that a certain type of player will flock to them rather than to WoW. They may look similar to you, as WoW looks similar to CoH, Lineage and Everquest to me, but they are all wildly different games.

 

[Spunky]

Points all taken.

LotrO was developed by Turbine, not Codemasters, as was DDO.

 

[Almighty_Gir]

sorry, codemasters was the publisher.

 

[Damaera]

WAR and WoW are different. You may think that the PVP and the Combat System is the same, but it isn't. Sure, you attack monsters and enemies with melee and spells, but what MMO doesn't have that? Almost every MMO has unique abilities for the combat system. For WAR, you have Morale abilities, and of course, different attacks. Now, just because you're using spells and melee attacks to kill monsters/other players doesn't mean that WAR is copying WoW. That type of stuff has been going on for a while.

In WAR, you're able to buy mounts, but I have no idea how that's copying World of Warcraft. It's essential to have some kind of transportation system (other than flying taxi's) in an MMO. I fail to see how WAR is using the same engine as World of Warcraft just because of the graphics and the UI. Most of the new MMO's look the same graphics and UI wise.

World of Warcraft wasn't the first game to include shaders and a bloom system. (At least I think they use a bloom system.) Sure, WAR uses shaders and a bloom system, but does that mean it uses the same engine?

World of Warcraft also wasn't the first MMO to use that specific UI that you're talking about. In fact, as far as I know, a lot of other MMO's use the same UI, too. Including Lineage, Lineage II, Guild Wars, and others. It sounds like you're saying Warhammer Online and Lord of the Rings Online use the same engine as World of Warcraft because they have a similar UI and similar graphics. You're wrong, my friend.

WoW isn't the first MMO, and it isn't the last MMO. World of Warcraft both copied from each other, and from other MMO's, but who didn't? Developers don't have to be original, but it sure helps.

In Warhammer Online, you could either level by grinding and questing, or by solely doing PVP. Both are possible. If you quest, you do not have to worry about killing 20 trolls to get 5 hearts. You are also able to queue up for Scenarios(battlegrounds) anywhere in the world. Before you say WAR copied that, I believe WoW actually copied that idea. You have two things to level up in this game. Your Renown and Character level. Character level is pretty self explanatory. By gaining your renown level, you're able to buy new gear with money. You are also able to spend points in two talent trees. Your renown tree, and your character level tree. For your Charcater Level tree, you have three specs that you choose from. It's sort of like WoW's, except it's strictly skills. For renown, you are able get purchase neat buffs with renown points. For example, one of them is 5% extra XP from Scenarios.

In World of Warcraft, you are only able to level by questing and grinding. I personally found most of the quests boring, and some entertaining. Even though the quests were entertaining, I could not stand the grind to 70. PVP was entertaining, but unbalanced. Although, I'm happy that Blizzard decided to pull their head out of their asses and listen to the community. You are now able to queue for BG's anywhere in the world, just like WAR. (Great idea.) WoW also had unbalanced classes. Some were OP, some sucked, and some were even. WoW copied many ideas and features from other MMO's, but those ideas and features helped WoW become such a great success.

Spunky, I have no idea where you got the idea that WoW, WAR, and LOTRO are using the same engine. As said, having the same graphics and UI doesn't mean all 3 of them are using the same engine.

It's all about taste. If you think WAR sucks and you want to play WoW, that's fine. If you think WoW sucks and you want to play WAR, that's fine. If you think both suck and don't plan to play any of these, that's fine too.

 

[Spunky]

Damaera, scroll up and read. Please. Thanks.

 

[Damaera]

Bah. Oh well.