Transformation Reqs & Turbo

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I know it might seem I'm going overboard with the whole Turbo thing, but there's really a lot of potential here to discuss.

In 1.2.3, Turbo never affected Transformations at all. You couldn't Transform with Turbo on.

1} What if Turbo allowed a player to Transform above their means?
PL Required for SSJ = 2,000,000
Current PL = 1,800,000
Current PL + Turbo = 2,000,000​

When the player has Turbo on, he's able to Transform.

Current PL + Charged Turbo = 2,400,000

With a Charged Turbo the player is able to Transform slightly faster.

The downside to this is that if Turbo is turned off, the player falls out of that state. In addition, if Charged Turbo STAYS Charged until turned off, then it would be much more taxing to transform with it, as it would be a constant heavy burden.​


The previous was an example of a player using Turbo to gain the ability to Transform. There is another idea here, and it can be considered in combination with or separate from the previous idea.


2} A player could speed up their Transformation with Turbo/Charged Turbo.
PL Req for SSJ = 2,000,000
Current PL = 2,000,000
Current PL + Turbo = 2,200,000
Current PL + Charged Turbo = 2,600,000​

We'll say hypothetically that with more PL, the Transformation is shortened at a rate of 1 second per 100,000. It takes 6 seconds to Transform initially.
Current = 6 seconds
Turbo = 4 seconds
Charged Turbo = Instant​

This allows quick transformations to exist when a player is on the offense. It may be particularly useful if two players are both using Charged Turbo, and one begins overpowering the other. The one who is winning will increase that momentum by quickly transforming and making his attacks more effective, wearing the other player down faster.​



Q&A


What if a player uses Turbo to ascend, but then he gains enough base PL?
Then he can turn off Turbo and not Untransform.​


Wouldn't this be a little unfair? PL requirements are made so players can't become too powerful too fast.
It wouldn't be unfair necessarily. Transformations make the differences between Non-Turbo, Turbo, and Charged Turbo more apparent. More power, longer recovery. By having to rely on a Charged Turbo to keep his Transformation, he can't play defensively. The other player can respond by being more conservative and avoid hits to wear him down. Then when he untransforms, HE could charge Turbo and Transform, giving the other player limited options.​


But can't he just untransform and then play defensively? Wouldn't this just encourage bouncing around Transformations?
Yes, there are benefits to be reaped by bouncing around. You get the extremes of a Non-Turbo Untrans to recover and a Charged Turbo SSJ to fight with. But keep in mind that if you time your Transformation wrong, it's still going to take time. If you're constantly transforming and untransforming, you're vulnerable to Ki attacks.

If the other player is using Charged Turbo, and they can quickly throw a max damage quick beam in your face, then you won't be bouncing around very often.

You can see how this allows strategy. The perfect counter to a player bouncing between SSJ and Untrans is to maintain a Charged Turbo to allow quick beams. The perfect counter for a player in a Charged Turbo is to remain SSJ with Turbo. Thus it prevents a player from bouncing between. A player can only bounce around Transformations if the other player is playing defensively.

And IF this was a problem, you could always add balancing agents, like make Transformations consume immediate stamina on use.​

If that was the case, a player would always benefit from having Turbo on when Transforming, simply to make it faster.
Yes, so what's wrong with that? A player low on stamina can't use Turbo, so they couldn't rely on Transforming as quickly once they were knocked down.

If you really love your longer transformation sequence, just keep Turbo off.

As hleV mentioned in another post, whenever people from DBZ transform, they have their aura around them. This works well with that idea.​


What if the player charges Turbo just to quickly Transform and then turns it off?
If SAM only gains from having Turbo on, you'd forfeit all of your bonus points. You'd also lose the charge in your Turbo. It would still be useful though if you were low on Ki but you wanted to maintain your power. Playing Non-Turbo in a Transformation would be closer to using Turbo Untransformed.​


Why wouldn't a player just always Charge Turbo and Transform then? Wouldn't that make him way stronger?
Yes, it would. It'd add to its effectiveness. Just keep in mind that, depending on your PL, it might take you awhile to Transform, making you vulnerable to attacks. If it didn't and you were able to then Transform, then you wouldn't Uncharge Turbo. You'd be forced to play with a Charged Turbo the entire duration, which would be much more taxing than simply charging Turbo while untransformed. More power, longer recovery time.​
 
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That im against.

Im for the idea that you can transform with turbo. But i say your nonturbo PL HAS to beover the requirement. Again keeping it simple.

Besides charged turbo means you only have a few seconds before you are out of KI. But the multiplier it gives you is 1.75
 
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That im against.
hehe I figured that'd be the case which is why I made sure to explain them separately.

Im for the idea that you can transform with turbo. But i say your nonturbo PL HAS to beover the requirement. Again keeping it simple.
I think that would really simplify things too. Too many bugs would need to be figured out otherwise for something so simple.

Besides charged turbo means you only have a few seconds before you are out of KI. But the multiplier it gives you is 1.75
Glad to hear it works on a multiplier. Adds a little diversity there.

What do you think about lowering the severity for ki drain while untrans with a charged turbo? This could allow transforming to increase severity of the drain, but more PL is gained by it.

For example, SSJ3 with a Charged Turbo would drain incredibly fast, where untrans would just drain quickly.

If Max Ki pools are increased when transforming, and lets say hypothetically that the drain rate is increased so that it drops at the same ratio, then the effect would be making recharge take longer to refuel it. The longer the recharging takes, the more ki is drained as well, so it has a doubled effect.

Untrans
Max Ki = 100
CT Drain Rate = 5 Ki per second
100/5 = 20 seconds to drain

SSJ3
Max Ki = 200
CT Drain Rate = 10 Ki per second
200/10 = 20 seconds to drain​

Just so you know what I'm doing below, I'm adding the additional Ki Drain which occurs while the player is recharging.
Ki recharges at 20 Ki per second.

Untrans
100/20 = 5 seconds to recharge
5 additional seconds of Ki Drain = 25
25 / 1 = 1 second
= ~ 6 seconds to recharge

SSJ3
200/20 = 10 seconds to recharge
10 additional seconds of Ki Drain = 10 (time recharging) x 10 (drain) = 100 Ki Drained
100/20 = 5
5 additional seconds of Ki Drain = 5 x 10 = 50 Ki Drained
50/20 = 2.5
2.5 additional seconds of Ki Drain = 2.5 x 10 = 25 Ki Drained
25/20 = 1.5 seconds overall

10 + 5 + 2.5 + 1.5 = 18 seconds to recharge​


Ki drains at the same ratio for both states, but because one has more Max Ki and a larger drain, it takes, considering the doubled effect, 3 times longer to recharge it.

In other states, the Max Ki is lessened with a smaller drain, so it's easier to recharge, but with the same time constraints.


The math is sound, what do you think?
 
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I just hope that every class will be well balanced for duels with no transformations. It sucks to switch a character you don't like in order to be able to win a duel.
 
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indeed the idea is sound but there should be boosters for non ascending characters
 
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I just hope that every class will be well balanced for duels with no transformations. It sucks to switch a character you don't like in order to be able to win a duel.
Yeah I agree, that's why I think Non-Turbo for every transformation should have roughly the same swoop speeds so it adds a consistency throughout all characters AND transformations. It's along the same lines.

indeed the idea is sound but there should be boosters for non ascending characters
There would still be Turbo and Charged Turbo, except it'd be easier to maintain untrans than in SSJ3. What I was saying above was to extend Ki pools but increase the drain rate, so it takes longer to regenerate, thus draining more Ki over time as well.

The reason for this is that Charged Turbo in a Transformed state will have more PL, thus increasing the gain from the multiplier. It would seem unbalanced if untrans had the same severity behind a Charged Turbo as SSJ3.

Since the drain RATIOS are the same, both taking 20 seconds to drain on their own completely, you don't get awarded more initial time. Untrans is easier to maintain though so you don't run out.

And if moves like swoop and teleport use a fixed Ki, then you would have relatively more time with Charged Turbo when transformed, but to recharge afterwards would be like an uphill battle.
 
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i like point 1 alot but point 2 is baad :p

i mean cmon you have perfect trans about 6mil base pl?

then you shouldn't be able to perfect trans either
and what's the point of this?
charging turbo aura takes almost equally long then just transforming?
 
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PL can be spaced out more so it's not mastered as quickly, if you mean that it'd make too much of a difference.

Charging Turbo you can do throughout the whole fight. Transforming makes you sit there and stay vulnerable. This is a way to spread your Transformation time throughout the fight to allow quick Transformations.

Otherwise we have the issue of... do we make them invulnerable when Transforming or not? This is a solution to that.
 

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