Today's news update

[TimastaR0X]

I will give you a suggestion team. 1.1 = gameplay 1.2 = eye candy mix those 2 together and you have gameplay and eyecandy. 1.1 melee should of been tweaked not revamped. Make 1.3 a fast paste game like 1.1 with the eyecandy of 1.2... this is the only solution that will statisfy both sides.

 

[Skiwan]

We are not afraid of changes, we just want back the things we enjoyed ourselves with.... If you don't respect that, don't expect us to respect your oppinion either and that's something people here tend to forget.

I see, so somebody disagreeing with your opinion is disrespecting you? no, they just dont agree, you probably like pizza, i dont, im not disrespecting you wen i say i dont like pizza.

Funny, someone mentions "omg 1.2 sux" and at least 10 more people join in. Touchy subject eeh?

Thats a little provocative, dont you think? People jump into these conversations because they believe if they somehow argue enough, with as many people as possible, using the same retoric, they'll somehow be groundbreaking and enlighten us all with their wisdom. It doesnt work like that, i dont like looking at things one sided with a closed mind, its taking everybody into account when i say that people can suggest what they want, but let the team decide, afterall thats what they're ment to do. Believe me with the ammount of times people have said 1.1 was better, even i myself have said i'd prefer some things to be much more like 1.1, if they have any brain at all they will have taken your opinion into account, what they do with it depends on what they are willing to do, and what they think is right. This is the reason that beta testers are here too, to help the team understand what people will like/dislike as well as finding bugs.

In the end, its all speculation, you havent got a clue how good 1.3 is untill you play it.

Also saying your enjoyment takes precedence over a team members time, social life and opinion is a hell of a lot more disrespectful than saying if you dont like the changes made to their game then dont play it.

I hope you understand what im trying to say.

 

[Carnage the 1]

I see, so somebody disagreeing with your opinion is disrespecting you? no, they just dont agree, you probably like pizza, i dont, im not disrespecting you wen i say i dont like pizza.

Erm? I said that there are people on this board that expect you to respect their oppinion but who refuse to listen to others.

Thats a little provocative, dont you think? People jump into these conversations because they believe if they somehow argue enough, with as many people as possible, using the same retoric, they'll somehow be groundbreaking and enlighten us all with their wisdom.

In the end, its all speculation, you havent got a clue how good 1.3 is untill you play it.

This may seem odd, but we stand for something and we're not planning on giving up so easily. Forums are there to discuss things and believe it or not, alot of valid reasons were given from both sides. Discussion is a good thing, so I don't see what's wrong with trying to convince others of your oppinion. After all, it's better than bashing someone's head, no?
Besides, waiting for 1.3 might repeat the situation during 1.2's development state.

"Don't judge it until you've played it"

In a way this is true, but it's not a good argument to completely ignore any suggestion or comment that criticises your work. Now, we've seen what it is like and we still are not satisfied with it, that doesn't take away our right to argue with anyone who thinks it's tha bomb even if we use the same arguement over and over. Besides, we never said we didn't like the eye-candy. We said we don't like the gameplay and if that doesn't change, 1.3 is going to be just as 1.2 exept with a few more features. Improving advanced melee doesn't cut it for most people here, though it's a welcome addition. Melee is mainly discussed due to the altering of the simple melee, which was the source of our enjoyment a year back.

Also saying your enjoyment takes precedence over a team members time, social life and opinion is a hell of a lot more disrespectful than saying if you dont like the changes made to their game then dont play it.

I never said that, I said the team was so cought up in their work they did not take the time to consider other suggestions, especially those who were about a new melee system. Now the team is losing interest in ESF, but they don't bother searching for a new management, instead, they go work on a new mod for another engine.

 

[Cold Steel]

=O that's new. Just a few members of the ESf team are working on mechmod, not all of them. And besides, I'm a tester, I know they're actually working their ass off. The reason you don't get to see so much lately is because the FTP went kaboom. The only thing the team has acces too is the news. As soon as everything's fully operational, you'll see the team has not been sitting on their ass, picking their noses. You'll be blown away.

 

[Skiwan]

you've misunderstood what i was trying to say, i dont wanna take sides, its just i notice time and time again, the abuse and pressure put on the team, by a group of people that say they're right, telling them what they need to do to improve it, i was merely saying people should suggest, and not moan, or ***** or argue when the team have made their dessicion. Suggestions are fine, everybody loves ideas, thats how we got to our modern society, but pressuring, and forcing your opinion on others is rather backward, and narrow minded.

but it's not a good argument to completely ignore any suggestion or comment that criticises your work

I completely agree with you there, and the idea of bringing new management seeming as joe has lost interest, seems like a very good productive idea to me. However from what ive heard they are trying to include peoples suggestions, they look into what they can. This issue of advanced melee is just one thing, i know its a large part of the game, and indeed they should focus on it, but us being stubborn and them being stubborn gets nothing worked out, therefore thats why i suggest both sides become more open.

I also have a little of experience with providing something that is in demand, and nomatter how open to ideas and suggestions you are, sometimes you feel that you're duty for all the hardwork is to produce something you are happy with. All the suggestions, requests, demands and social obligations it makes it so much harder for you to enjoy the work, it feels like a chore, like you have to do this, you have to do that, and it makes you resent your work, it makes you put less effort in, and it makes you not want anything to do with it after a while. Im not saying ignoring criticism is okay, im saying sometimes you feel like you cant please everyone, and at the same time, you arent even pleasing yourself.

Im happy to know that the team are trying their hardest to bring us all something we want in 1.3, i feel that if they're working to their standards, thats good enough for me. I also sympathise with Joe and his dessicions with the mod, because i know to a certain degree what that pressure is like. I do however think that they could be more open to ideas, on some occasions, and maybe having a new coder or something would really help, but its not up to me, or the public.

The point im trying to make, is an abusive attitude about forcing suggestions on the mod doesnt help. I know you Carnage dont do this, but in the past its mainly what all the 1.1 to 1.2 comparison threads have all been about, people have contributed with or without knowing they're doing it, and from what ive seen it creates an unpleasant atmosphere, and i dont feel like im discussing things with people on reasonable terms. With that as a group attitude im not suprised that the team sometimes doesnt want to listen. I think everyone could be a little more open minded, it'd provide a much more positive working attitude. Like your huge ideas thread Carnage, that was awesome because everybody talked like adults and the suggestions were well thought out, and considered everybodies opinions. The threads like this that have people saying "i dont care how much work you do to 1.3 its gonna suck if you dont do this, or this, etc" arent productive, as straight away its insulting and pressuring and creating that negative atmosphere that breeds apathy. People find themselves having to defend their opinion rather than share it, and people have to prove that they're "right".

I just hope that people can grasp what im saying, without trying to sound insulting i think everyone could be a little more mature about this.

 

[Carnage the 1]

I know the team can't listen to everybody and fit it all in one game, that's impossible. However, according to a group (incl me), they have been focussing on good looks and eye candy too much instead of creating a solid gameplay system. B1.1 had it's flaws and it is no way 'better' than the current system. It just didn't allow too much exploits, bugs or all-round lame play styles, you were either good, average or worse. B1.2 was more focussed on tactics and strategy instead of speed which is not a bad idea at all, but it wasn't as solid as the previous system. Combining both systems would create a balance (if done right), but it seems that the team doesn't really care about their previous work anymore, which bugs me. Maybe they wanted to make a fresh start and change directions, but they could have at least let us know about that change. While most of us were waiting for an even cooler melee system, all we got was an altered (read: raped) simple melee, an unbalanced adv melee system and excessive eye-candy. Needless to say we were disapointed and wanted to get through to them, but almost everything we said was shot down or simply ignored. That probably made a few people snap, their favorite mod just got 'bad' according to them so they started spamming and flaming about how they didn't like this and that. Although it's not the right way to go, it shows their.... uuuh... love...? for the mod. Some crossed the line and took matter into their own hand, nearly forcing the team to change it to how they thought it was right, that got alot of us on a bad foot and thus a gap was created between the two groups.

The thread I made got alot of positive feed-back, even Joe visited and posted from to time. Unfortunately, I heard that after a while, instead of discussing the melee system, they only thought about the fatality/finisher part and that made me angry. I didn't write my butt off for it to be completely ignored, not to mention that Joe seemed to like it (or pretended to anyway). I think the team should show it's appreciation to suggestions and comments a bit more and actually consider them throrougly.

Ow, I'm sure the team isn't being lazy or anything, I just think they should move their focus and concentrate on more.... 'important' things

 

[Skiwan]

Although it's not the right way to go, it shows their.... uuuh... love...? for the mod.

haha, i know what you mean, i know their intentions were to improve the mod for everybody, because it is such a fun game and i would hate it to die out. I also agree with you on the most part about whats changed, and what could be done to improve the game, like i said i really liked your suggestions. I just think that if the team decides to not include them, there's really nothing we can do about it, and making people feel bad about their work isnt productive. The mod is still in its beta stages, i hope if joe and harsens want to stop working on it the source would be released or passed on to capable hands. ESF is probably the best, or one of the best games ive ever played and i only hope it can get better.

 

[Carnage the 1]

Very interesting : http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=53256

Luckily most players still seem to like simple melee most, like you guys said: why fix something that isn't broken? Well, ok, now it's broken

 

[Eon]

Alright, everyone's had their fun, people bashed teh team, people defended the team, people bashed the melee system, people defended the melee system, people cried, people moaned, and then at the end they all hugged and loved each other. The End.

Time to nuke the thread, everyone got their words in, and before it goes any further, it's done. 'Til next time.

-Closed-