The ESF 1.3 Vision

[VideoJinx]

Jinx's Personal ESF 1.3 Outline

Jinx's Personal ESF 1.3 Outline
(In Progress)

The purpose of this Thread is to Re-invent esf 1.2 for the better. Team feel free to **** all over this thread, but also feel free to take from it w/e ude like to use. I want people to read here constantly to constantly Critique the outline. Hopefully the result will be a Outline superior to the 1.3 outline.
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:: New Default Configuration ::

:: Permanent Camera View ::

- New Unchangable Cam View: Cam_Idealdist 130, Default_fov 50, Cam_zoffset 7
- This levels the playing field for all players, by not letting any player have the "better view" over another player.
- This view also makes maps now seem "Worldy", instead of box-like, emerging the gamer into his/her environment.
- Teleports are now more effecient and may need to be modified for less Spam-ability to improve gameplay.
- Beams now seem more sudden and suprising, so are melee attacks. Players will be even more tempted to make use of their radar.

:: Stamina ::

- Stamina is only lost when a player is Hit, or is spending a certain amount to perform a move.
- The stamina meter now takes place of the CF meter, because it is no longer needed.
- Stamina recovers at a constant rate, but when on the ground stamina recovers at a faster rate.

:: Specifics ::

:: Purpose ::

:: Pros ::

:: Cons ::

:: Movement ::

Strictly Air Movement:

- Swooping for every player has been changed. No longer is "How long you swoop" Based on TIME. Instead, how long you swoop, is based on Distance. The distance in which Goku travels in 1 single swoop, for esf 1.2 is now the standard distance for every player in esf 1.3. Meaning this.. Krillin may not swoop as fast as Goku, but his advantage is that he may now swoop LONGER then goku because of his slower speed. This forces Goku to try and use his speed in a more "Controlled(accurate)" manner, because krillin being slower, may easily and accurately turn and get the hit; Instead of having to struggle to move as far and as fast as goku. This also applies to SSJ or any other transformation. Ki Burn is also unique for every player, and is determined based on the speed of the player. For example, Krillins "Ki Burn" for 1 swoop is equal to the Ki Burn of 1 swoop for goku. The significance is that because Krillin is slower so is his ki burn during a swoop. This balances all extremely fast players extremly well, and forces them to use their speed Skillfully instead of in a cheap method of run-hit-and-run. For example, SuperBuu in his transed state is extremely fast, but in order continue swooping he'll have to chainswoop more often.

- The Teleport command is now disabled when a player is unable to fly(Having less then 25 to 30% stamina). To make the teleport command available, the player only needs to swoop. 3 seconds after a swoop, the command will once again disable.

- A new mode of flight called "Turbo-Flight" has been added in order to give newer players a fighting chance. This mode requires a slight cost of stamina to active. Once actived, a player can press and hold(no double tap) any directional key to fly and a simple release to stop.

- "Hover" no longer works the same. You must hold powerup to begin hovering, and after releasing the "Powerup" button, a player has 4 full seconds to powerup again or they will automaticlly fall.

- Gliding is now a given, when a player stop swooping they will automaticly glide.

- The teleport hasn't been changed, but the delay has been VERY slightly shortened.

- There are now two new aspects to Recovery. 1) You are now able to curve your player as you are recovering. 2) After recieving second basic melee hit, the player taking damage will fall and must double tap jump key to flip back up into the air. 3) If a player doesn't recover after a 2nd hit, they may recover with "Spring Action Jump" when they hit the ground.

:: Specifics ::

:: Purpose ::

:: Pros ::

:: Cons ::

Recovering:

- 2 new features have been added to the regular recovering method, after being hit with basic melee.
- The first feature, applies after being hit one time with basic melee. The player once hit will recover just like in esf 1.2.3, except now when a player holds right click, they may curve their player by turning their mouse.
- The second features, applies after being hit a second time with basic melee. Once hit a 2nd time with basic melee, the player is knocked out of flight and goes into a falling state. In this state a player may recover by holding any direction key while double tapping jump. Once this accomplished, the player will flip back up into the air in the direction corressponding to the directional key they pressed. During the sate of both falling, and flipping up into the air... players are capable of curving their motion. View 2:09 to 2:12 , an example of what the falling will look like after a 2nd basic melee hit http://youtube.com/watch?v=PxMcNCa1M-Y
:: Specifics ::

:: Purpose ::

:: Pros ::

:: Cons ::





Strictly Ground Movement:

Running--(General Idea)

- Running is now .5 to 2 times faster.
- A player running now has the ability to press "Mouse2", while running to perfrom a "Ground Dash" at the cost of Stamina.

:: Specifics ::

:: Purpose ::

:: Pros ::

:: Cons ::

Ground-Dash-Attack--(General Idea)

- Pressing "Mouse2" while running begins a Ground Dash-Attack. This is when a player who is running swings back their arm, and suddenly increases speed by pushing off the ground into a forward motion, leaving a mist of smoke at the point of takeoff. During a Ground Dash your player is unable to curve their momentum, but may turn their body during the attack. By holding "Mouse2" the dash is able to continue, and when "Mouse2" is released, the player will swing(punch or kick) in the direction of the mouse before landing back on the ground. Here is a perfect examlpe of what a ground dash would look like. Watch from 2:39 to 2:48 http://youtube.com/watch?v=PxMcNCa1M-Y

:: Specifics ::

:: Purpose ::

:: Pros ::

:: Cons ::

Jumping--(General Idea)

- Jumping is now "leep-like", and their are now a variety of jumps.
- A player may "Super Jump", at the cost of stamina.
- A player can now Super Jump into a "Boosted Dash", by holding forward during the super jump.
- The regular Jumping height has been shortened, to forplay ground melee.
- The height/distance for of a Super Jumping exceeds esf 1.2.3's maximum height for jumping

:: Specifics ::
- Pressing jump has no effect, Releasing jump causes a player to jump in the direction of their momentum. This type of jump allows a player to jump from 15 degrees or wider, from the ground. If a player holds jump for 2 seconds, their character transitions to a crouching position. On the 3rd second, the character auto-releases to perform a superjump into any direction corresponding to the direction key held down. This type of jump allows a player to jump at an angle of 45degrees or wider to the ground.

:: Purpose ::

:: Pros ::

:: Cons ::



:: Melee ::

Grapple--(General Idea)
-The grappling feature is only available when gliding. When melee is selected and L-Click is held down, if you manage to come close enough to your oponent without being hit by basic melee or anyother type of melee you will automaticly perform a quick throw.
- This feature can be done with in Flight, or not.

:: Specifics ::

:: Purpose ::

:: Pros ::

:: Cons ::

Strictly Ground Melee:

Strictly Air Melee:

Basic Melee Head Ons--(General Idea)

-No longer do Basic Melee headons cause a crashing affect where both players are knocked back and both players recieve little to no damage. Instead, players trade blows/hits during the second they head on, causing both players to recieve 1/3 or less of the normal damage. During a headon players don't stop swooping, instead their swoop ricochets and knocks both players out of flight, and into a falling state. Watch from 1:42 to 2:00, Here is a good example of what this will look like:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PxMcNCa1M-Y

Blocking--(General Idea)
- During a block struggle, players may continue blocking with 1 arm while charging a beam in the other. This is at the cost of taking gradual Damage while blocking with one arm.
- I'f timed correctly a player could return a blocked strong beam with an energy attack of their own. Perfect example, Watch 2:20 to 2:23 http://youtube.com/watch?v=PxMcNCa1M-Y Notice how goku punches the beam away, just imagine him returning it with a beam attack of his own.


:: Beams ::

Strictly Ground Beams:

Beam Jumping--(General Idea)

- Beam Jumping has been fine tuned for less spammage.
- A beam jump is automatically cut short after a certain fairly short distance. This causes players to resort to beam jumping for weaker attacks or a last resort for a strong beam attack.
Strictly Air Beams:

Generic Ball Attack--(General Idea)

- Gen Balls work just the same, except now they have an "auto-curve" feature which causes the attack to automaticly curve towards the intended target, or the last target that highlighted your cross hair. If the target is out of range, then the gen ball will fire without any curve.

Finales--(General Idea)

Regular--(General Idea)

Suprise Attacks--(General Idea)

As a result of some buttons being removed from the default controls, there is now a space for a new feature called the "Suprise Attack". You are able to prepare yourself for a Suprise attack on your opponent by holding down the "Preperation Button" (bad name, I know). When this button is pressed and held down, it begins to fill up an already full or not full stamina meter with an overlaying glow. This Signals the player how much stamina will be used during a suprise attack. If the player releases this button, the glow gradually decreases back to 0. To innitiate or start a suprise attack, merely select an energy(beam/blast) attack and double L-click for your player to autocharge the beam or blast within 1.5 to 2 seconds before firing. If the attack is a beam, it fires as a large radius beam with a limited distance in which it reaches before fading out. The beam can't be turned, and acts like a line expanding quickly from point A to point B. If a player is hit with this nearly instant beam, an explosion appears at the point of contact, and the beam instantly fades away. If a player blocks this beam, the person shooting the beam may manually continue "pushing" ki into the beam at a constant rate. This only keeps the beam alive, and doesn't increase it's power. To do so they must hold L-click which will gradually drain their ki as fast as swooping would. At this point, any other player who flies into the beam will take half the damage of being hit directly. Yet, this is a risky move considering you'll have low stamina after. If a player counters with a "Suprise-Beam-Attack" of their own, then both beams collide and a mini game pops up on both players screen.

In this mini game, a holo circle appears, symbolizing the center of the current beam's force. Also a larger circle appears around it, symbolizing the area of "Struggle". Outside of the larger circle appears a small radial blurred circle that symbolizes the where your energy force is being directed. Using the Directional keys, both players must move the Small-radial-blurred-circle, through the area of struggle and into the smaller centered circle, Symbolizing the center of the current beam's force. The first player to put it in the center wins the struggle. Yet, the "area of difficulty" throws off your direction and makes it difficult to get to the center. The player who wins the struggle, lets out a loud struggle cry before automaticly thrusting more power into the beam for the win.

The effect of being hit by this type of beam is the same as being hit by the 2nd basic melee hit, you except you can't recover from the air.

Here is a good example mini game:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Qylf38gdanU

Watch from 2:46 to 2:52, notice how the circles are trying to reach the middle circle but are struggling to do so. The idea is similar

The difficultly should be equal for both players for fairness. (to be continued)

:: Buddy System::

- Capt. Ginyu's buddy system, doesn't allow more then one player to be ingame at one time. Instead players can swap out by pressing the LEft-ALT key during flight. This causes the current character to teleport to their designated point at the cost of the curent character's ki, but the character being used will be swapped out in sequencial order with a different buddy.
- While any character is in the "Resting Status", each characer's stats regenerate "seperately" at a gradual pace.
- In the buddy system, HP is divided equally to all players. So, each of the 3 characters would have 1/3 of 120hp, which is 40 hp
- While fighting, only the character being used will grow stronger. For example, If i used ginyu all the time.. then ginyu would be the player that grew stronger even tho I could swap out my other characters.
- This system allows a player to win over his enemies, not just with skill, but with the confusion of swapping players, and also a larger ki pool, when each character is combined.


:: Map Walls::

:: Map Ceiling::

:: Weapon Select ::

:: Balance ::

:: Stamina ::

:: Ki Energy::

:: Camera Movement::

:: SSJ::

"8) Ascending to ssj is no longer done by pressing Z. To ascend you hold powerup + turbo for longer then 3 seconds spending MORE stamina to obtain ssj(the exact amount uncertain). This brings a new risk to going ssj. If you're able to go ssj( if you have enough stamina) but have barely enough stamina for it, you'll obtain ssj,

but you will have low stamina and a high risk of losing ssj easier. This gives the feel of needing to train or master ssj.

If stamina goes below 20% you lose ssj, and since stamina isn't "rechargable" like ki, the player won't be able to go ssj for a while.

Yet for players who can go ssj without the risk of losing stamina, I feel you're right when a balance needs to be added. My suggestion is to increase the ki burn so it feels exactly like being in normal form.

As for ssj beams, I believe they should only have a Stronger"DIRECT" impact. The splash damage should "NOT" increase, but should only grow larger in diameter

2 Reasons supporting this:
-SSJs need to use/burn more ki inorder to do the stronger attacks an ssj does.
-Secondly, experienced players will actually use ssj for fighting, and not seeing it as cheap.

Edit:

I also believe, the swooping TIME for an ssj should cut slightly shorter... SO that an SSJ in 1 swoop, covers the SAME distance as a Non-ssj SWOOPER. This will balance the swooping, and gives ssj a better feeling overall. This also makes players use of the SPEED of the ssj, and improves gameplay. SSJ2's swoop should be faster then ssj1 and non-ssjform, BUT ssj2's swoop-time should be cut short so that ssj 2 cover the same exact distance as a full non-ssj swoop.

This also applies to ssj3.

This would dramatically improve the feeling off ssj and all other transformations. Players would easily notice the change in swooping speed by the shorter time it takes to get from point a to point b. This also helps player determine how fast they need to turn inorder to control their swoop.

To summarize SSJ

- Beams are stronger from a direct impatc
- Beams have a larger splash damage radius. Splash damage doesn't increase
- SSJ and all other transformations fly the same distance in a single swoop, as the swoop of a NON-Transed swooper. The difference is, SSJ flies from point A to point B at a faster rate.
- The ki of an SSJ should be larger, BUT in balancing it, it should also have a higher ki burn. So that ssj FEELS EXACTLY like being non ssj. In order to do the stronger attacks, ssj SPENDS more ki then a non ssj. The ki of an ssj and the ki of a non-ssj SHOULD feel the same
- SSJ melee should feel slighitly stronger
- The Perfect Form of an SSJ form, a small amount of extra ki should be added on, increasing the ki pool"

 

[|Xiphos|]

nice outline there. i agree with most of the ideas

 

[sub]

I can't believe I'm going to read this, but pcjoe said he might read it so I felt the need to point out how wrong you are. Let's begin shall we

The purpose of this Thread is to Re-invent esf 1.2 for the better. Team feel free to **** all over this thread, but also feel free to take from it w/e ude like to use. I want people to read here constantly to constantly Critique the outline. Hopefully the result will be a Outline superior to the 1.3 outline.

Nobody wants to constantly read through something this massive.

:: Movement ::
Walking is not needed and therefore will be removed from the default controls, but will be bindable in console for any other purpose. This also makes running the immediate form of movement . The speed of running has been increased to a set speed for all players for fairness. An estimate of the speed is 75% of Goku's swooping speed. Running requires no cost to stamina nor Ki energy, giving new players a better chance of getting away from experienced players. This also compliments to the new ground gameplay being implimented. Running backwards isn't as effective for you can only run backwards at esf 1.2's current running speed. Running sideways(left or right) only moves 50% the speed of Goku's swoop, making running forward the fastest direction of running.

So you want to be able to move at 75 percent of swooping speed for no ki cost? No.

Jumping--(General Idea)
Esf 1.2's current jump feels too much like a bouncing ball, and requires a replacement. The new jump consists of a spring action manuever into any direction. The feeling is much less bouncy, and more leep like. This new jump allows a sudden stop when running, and lets you instantly jump into any direction. This makes it more difficult for players who are chasing you from the air. You may even jump and stay low to the ground if you wish, land then instantly spring off into any direction.

Alright, so you want jumping to work like it does in the game Spiderman 2. I don't think there's any point in changing the way jumping works, other than say removing the ki cost...

Strictly Air Movement:

Flying--(General Idea)
There are now quite a few new features in flying in esf that better gameplay. Firstoff, flying now requires you to have a certain amount of stamina in order to fly. If the amount of stamina you have falls below that level, your flight will automaticly be disabled. There is no cost of stamina while flying, thus keeping flying simple and easy instead of over complicating it. An estimate of the amount of Stamina you must have in order to fly is 25% to 35% of your full stamina meter. Yet, to accomodate the new player who isn't used to double tapping, a new mode of flight has been introduced called "Turbo Flight". To activate this mode, players simply need to turn turbo on, by holding powerup + turbo for a period of time, which spends enough stamina to acquire turbo. In this mode, players can swoop easily by pressing and holding down one direction. Also, the ability to hover has been removed. No longer can you move around in the air without swooping, you're either swooping or falling unless you're powering up. This automatically trains new players to powerup when they stop, this also makes gliding a given for new players and this also makes transfering to the ground occur more often especially when a player has a low amount of ki. This also makes more advanced moves much easier. Also, players will not fall when beaming from the air, but players will fall when shooting a ki blast/ball.

No. First of all, I'm not sure if swooping already requires stamina in 1.3, but if it does, that needs to stop. Secondly, swooping should be simple, you'd make it overly complex. The way swooping should work:

You turn on turbo. Any movement you now do will now be a swoop. You turn off turbo, you move around normally. The last thing ESF needs is two modes for swooping, that would be making it complex for the sake of making it complex.

Gliding--(General Idea)
The Toggle/Fly button is no longer required and thus is removed from the default controls to make space for a new command. Gliding works the same except you no longer need to press the button to execute it, gliding is a given. Yet to keep up with the idea of "re-inventing" esf, I've implanted a grappling feature only available when gliding. When melee is selected and L-Click is held down, if you manage to come close enough to your oponent without being hit by basic melee or anyother type of melee you will automaticly perform a quick throw. Your character will snag the other player's arm and slowly spin the opponent 360 degrees, before quickly whipping them another 360 degrees and automaticly releasing. The time it takes for the player to auto release is only 2.5 to 3.0 seconds. So to make use of the move the player performing it must react quick as to where he/she will throw the opponent. The speed in which the opponent will travel is equal to the speed of a player who was hit with a "critical hit" in esf 1.2( Very Fast ). The damage is also slightly higher then a basic melee hit to compensate for how much harder it is to land this move.

I wasn't expecting to read this and find any good ideas, but I actually like that idea. There should still be a toggle fly mode button, but if you press it when your already swooping, it should take you out of swoop mode. As for the quick throw thing, no.

Teloporting--(General Idea)
The button used for teleporting is disabled when not flying or powering up, instead it's used as a "Ki-Pumping" button and its' uses vary. This works well because the teleporting button is commonly used, and so will be the new feature called "Ki-Pumping". For example while running if you hold the teleport button you will run faster at the expense of burning ki. Hold the teleport button while jumping and you will jump farther at the expense of burning ki. When beaming from the ground, you may hold the teleport buttom to increase the amount of energy put into the beam. This gives new depth to the game, and allowing a player to spend his ki at will.

I don't know how to say it any simpler. No.

Stop suggesting **** for the sake of suggesting it. This would add nothing to the game while making it much more complicated.

Recovering--(General Idea)
For the purpose of simplicity, recovering is no longer done by left or right click. Instead, recovering is done by hold powerup(the button used to regain ki energy and to maintain flight). Also to add more depth to the game, a player who's knocked back may curve his/her movement with the directional buttons, thus making it more difficult for a player to land the 2nd hit. Ontop of this a player may also counter-attack with a single "Suprise-Attack" or "any other beam" while being knocked back/recovering. This new feature adds even MORE freedom, MORE depth, and helps the new player dodge a 2nd hit. Of course, when I said "any other beam". You must realize that to use other beams(stronger ones such as kameha) not as a "suprise-attack" takes time to charge and the only way to pull that kind of beam off, would be to fire after the recovery if their opponent misses the 2nd hit. Most likely a single "NON-Suprise Attack" would be used AFTER the 2nd hit, because you cant land the 3rd hit. This feature takes part in Incorperating beams into a real action fight. The real idea in incoperating beams into an experienced deathmatch is in the "Suprise Attack".

I hate the powerup idea. You say for the sake of simplicity, recovering will be done by holding the recharge button. That's not making it simpler, thats changing what a button does. If you want to make it simpler, make recovering automatic if you have enough ki. That way new players won't have to have it explained to them that they can recover.

As for the guiding yourself while being knockbacked, i'd have to try it out. That's not a bad idea, though.

As for the surprise attack thing, no. Just no.

Trailing--(General Idea)
Trailing is still an incomplete thought, the idea behind trailing incorperates a buddy system only available when a team mode is active. This feature allows a player to fly in and snag behind a teammate in order to trail behind the teammate. At this point the person trailing no longer needs to press any button to continue swooping, and will still trail behind their teammate mimicing every flight pattern. While trailing a teammate, any hit that the teammate does on an opponent does 1/3(one-third) extra damage because your both attacking at the same time. Also, the person trailing spends .5 the normal amount of ki energy so they can trail longer. The down side is that if hit not only do both players recieve damage but they both lose extra stamina

I read it twice. I have no idea what you're talking about.

Blocking--(General Idea)
This will be further explained later, after other sections have been completed. Blocking has been given a new feature allowing a person to charge a generic beam or blast(ball) in one hand, while blocking in another. If timed right, a player can powerup and fire their "generic beam or blast(ball)" into the beam they were blocking just before it releases. This feature will cause players to enter a beam struggle more often, but not as supspected, for the player who's beam was blocked will mostlikly be convert to stamina(a slightly stronger push force). As stamina decreases so does your hp, and when stamina hits 0 so does your hp(ONLY DURING A BEAM STRUGGLE).
Recovering--(General Idea)

Jinx, no.


I already posted how I think swooping would work so I'm going to leave the second part out.

 

[john_volkov]

I am 100% with sub at this one, and I think recovery sould be automatic

 

[VideoJinx]

Interesting that you can say NO without explaining why.. or discrediting the idea to show if its bad..... as for recovery being simpler, this is what i mean..


POWERUP is the button all players are most familiar with?

So.. POWERUP being used to recover would be a natural feel for a player who just learning the controls. the player ISNT POWERING UP KI ENERGY while recovering, no where in the idea does it suggest that. I suggest you read carefully..

you say no to the jumping idea, yet you dont explain why, and you then proceed to mock it by imagining spiderman.. this isnt spider-man its dbz .....
and you notice ALL idea suggested have " (General Idea ) " before them. Meaning you aren't reading each idea in exact detail of how they work.


you say no to the running and yet you dont even know the details how runnnig will be changed, and you still dont explain how the idea is bad.. also the speed of the running is an ESTIMATE as clarified in the post. EVERYTHING would have to be tested ingame and fine tuned inorder to achieve balance.

Let me point out.. this is to RE-invent esf, stop imagining the old esf thats already existing and imagine what esf COULD BE.


you also say NO to the swoop idea, and dont explain anything. Instead you say no and it should be this way without any explaination besides " it would make it complex". In no way does this make swoooping complex. It's exactly like esf 1.2's swoop, except now if you turn turbo on YOU NO LONGER REQUIRE THE DOUBLE TAP TO FLY you only require pressing a direction and holding it down to continue flight. IN no way does this make the game complex.

And from your idea of having swooping Disabled when turbo is off.. this would take away from gameplay, because it limits movement.. also floating or hovering isn't usefull in esf so why have it.



You say no to the ki pumping idea, yet you give no explanation of how it's bad. This feature is similar to a game called ssx3, where you can hold the button down to move faster, at the cost of spending your energy. That energy could also be used for tricks to get more energy. It added depth and more entertainment to the game.. If u cant explain why it's bad.. dont shoot it down, cuz odds are it's mostlikely not bad.


Once again for the blocking idea you simply say no,...

you have irrationally discredited practically all ideas without thought.. your post means nothing if you dont explain why.

A simple "no" may as well be nothing.




Lastly but not least, to have an automatic recovery Takes AWAY FROM gameplay. Because you can no longer recover at different times, thus your opponent always knows when your going to recover unless you dont have enough ki to recover.

This takes away from the randomness/FREEDOM to of esf, and from what i recall I remember someone from the ESF Team saying they wanted esf to stay free not automatic.

 

[imkongkong]

jinx you just throw random ideas out.. so im going to say no also

 

[john_volkov]

Jinx your ideeas ar to complex , evry tried your ideeas with a noob a complete noob ?, most of the guys who plays games look's for simpliciti, not for verry complex game , the simpler the beter
since you want an epxlination oki here is one the runing Ideea you got like 75% of 100% from the swoop , you just go on the gorund and just run the hole map without swooping or do anything , and by your ideea if the guy press turbo again his speed will encrese 20% because this is turbo so there for 95% you will be preaty much unbeatable on the ground no one could get to you because your fast and you don't need to stop , and the ideea faild fom thee begining because esf allready has run ,and you can use walk to walk for snek attack.The powerup Thing the first thing that a noob does is NOT USE POWERUP and you say to make powerup more usefull the noob will probably use LMB(left mouse buton).And i get what you say about the jumping thing you want it to look like you realy jump ,that only works for Land Games , in spiderman man you could not fly so that's why you had that jump .The swoop ideea , let's say that the new swoop will be beter.I still don't get the Idee about bloking you say you charge a ball beam in one hand and shot it but how the hell does the beam strugle starts ?and the automatic recovery sould be like an option so that anyone can chose to have autorecover or free recover

 

[Spunky]

I have to agree with Sub. Those are just horrible ideas.

@ Sub - By "snagging" a teammate, he's saying you fly up behind them, hit the "snag" button, and then the two of you are connected. You fly together, attack together, and help each other out in the bathroom (probably the bedroom too). A horrible, horrible idea. I can't think of any reason to use this.

Jinx, some things just don't deserve an explanation. Your ideas are almost always horrible, and it becomes tedious to have to explain the same thing over and over to you again. We know you like suggesting things. That's fine. But suggest something somebody is actually going to use. Be realistic. Who's gonna glide throughout a fight? Nobody. That's stupid. Who in their right mind would want to remove the ability to hover? Also stupid. See where I'm going with this? Your ideas just don't work.

 

[VideoJinx]

There is nothing complex about the ideas..
Also, there is nothing random about them..

And if you dont think so, prove otherwise. Explain.


As for the Snagging idea I clarified it was an "INCOMPLETE THOUGHT". So, you cant discredit all ideas by using the only "incomplete" thought as an example.

Also notice at the top of the entire thread.. it reads "(In Progress)", so you can't take these ideas and try to fit them into the current esf it just wouldn't work. You have to look at these ideas as creating the next version of esf. Of course, you wont get the entire thing until all ideas are put in, IN detail.

 

[Spunky]

Well maybe you should stop posting incomplete thoughts. Think your **** through before posting. Don't fall back on an incomplete thought excuse every time you're told your ideas are horrible.

You have to look at these ideas as creating the next version of esf.

Really? Damn. Here I was, thinking of what to do for Alpha 2.0.

Of course, you wont get the entire thing until all ideas are put in, IN detail.

I don't know about everyone else, but I understand them pretty clearly. They're just horrible.

 

[VideoJinx]

Excuse me, but if you read BEFORE that specific idea it reads "Trailing is still an incomplete thought". In, NO WAY does that apply to the rest of the ideas.. so your rational is illogical. And in no way am i making an excuse, im asking you to prove your point... as posted before


Explain, dont complain

 

[john_volkov]

read abouve

 

[Spunky]

Excuse me, but if you read BEFORE that specific idea it reads "Trailing is still an incomplete thought". In, NO WAY does that apply to the rest of the ideas.. so your rational is illogical. And in no way am i making an excuse, im asking you to prove your point... as posted before


Explain, dont complain

And if you read what I just said:

Well maybe you should stop posting incomplete thoughts. Think your **** through before posting. Don't fall back on an incomplete thought excuse every time you're told your ideas are horrible.

You'll see why my "rational is illogic".

 

[Zeonix]

And Jinx is saying what you said doesn't apply to his post in its entirety because only one of his proposed ideas was incomplete. In other words, state why you don't like his other ideas. Oh, and he meant rationale, not rational.

The only idea I agree with is pertaining to the recovery system. As it is now, recovering takes far too long and leaves you completely open to additional attacks. I mean, not only are you just waiting to get hit a second time, but the very act of recovering consumes ki. Pumping ki into recovery should affect how long it takes you to recover in a very noticeable way. Of course, I'd rather scrap the whole thing altogether but I have a feeling I'd just be told "That isn't possible with HL1's engine" if I were to write up an extensive suggestion thread.

 

[VideoJinx]

I refered your irrational assumption of me making excuses.



Yet I still see no explanations so ill reserve my time until then.


-Thanks Vox Dei 4 clarrifying

 

[john_volkov]

Jinx your ideeas ar to complex , evry tried your ideeas with a noob a complete noob ?, most of the guys who plays games look's for simpliciti, not for verry complex game , the simpler the beter
since you want an epxlination oki here is one the runing Ideea you got like 75% of 100% from the swoop , you just go on the gorund and just run the hole map without swooping or do anything , and by your ideea if the guy press turbo again his speed will encrese 20% because this is turbo so there for 95% you will be preaty much unbeatable on the ground no one could get to you because your fast and you don't need to stop , and the ideea faild fom thee begining because esf allready has run ,and you can use walk to walk for snek attack.The powerup Thing the first thing that a noob does is NOT USE POWERUP and you say to make powerup more usefull the noob will probably use LMB(left mouse buton).And i get what you say about the jumping thing you want it to look like you realy jump ,that only works for Land Games , in spiderman man you could not fly so that's why you had that jump .The swoop ideea , let's say that the new swoop will be beter.I still don't get the Idee about bloking you say you charge a ball beam in one hand and shot it but how the hell does the beam strugle starts ?and the automatic recovery sould be like an option so that anyone can chose to have autorecover or free recover

This is a explination maybe this will help

 

[VideoJinx]

Finally, now did you also read my post?

Where i said the speeds are an Estimation???

I also dont recall saying that the speed will increase by 20%

And if that was the speed in which it would increase, I'de mostlikly LOWER the regular running speed anywhere from 30% to 50% while running forward.

Yet, this doesn't show the idea to be Bad, it just shows the estimations are "off".

 

[Spunky]

Haha, alrighty. Let's start from the beginning.

Walking is not needed and therefore will be removed from the default controls, but will be bindable in console for any other purpose. This also makes running the immediate form of movement . The speed of running has been increased to a set speed for all players for fairness. An estimate of the speed is 75% of Goku's swooping speed. Running requires no cost to stamina nor Ki energy, giving new players a better chance of getting away from experienced players. This also compliments to the new ground gameplay being implimented. Running backwards isn't as effective for you can only run backwards at esf 1.2's current running speed. Running sideways(left or right) only moves 50% the speed of Goku's swoop, making running forward the fastest direction of running.

Useless. Removing walk to make running the immediate form of movement? I thought it already was. Walking serves purposes other than in combat. It's good for videos (as you should know) and it's good for just screwing around. There may be no reason to keep it, but there's definitely no reason to take it out. Running doesn't require stamina or ki as it is, so that was useless. Running backwards is slower, and not as effective? Gee, who knew? Increasing the run speed is pointless. That's what turbo is for. If you want to run faster, hit turbo. Increasing the running speed without turbo won't do anything because the guy chasing you moves just as fast (or faster if they swoop).

Esf 1.2's current jump feels too much like a bouncing ball, and requires a replacement. The new jump consists of a spring action manuever into any direction. The feeling is much less bouncy, and more leep like. This new jump allows a sudden stop when running, and lets you instantly jump into any direction. This makes it more difficult for players who are chasing you from the air. You may even jump and stay low to the ground if you wish, land then instantly spring off into any direction.

Useless. While an alright idea in theory, it's unrealistic. Nobody is going to use that, except maybe if they're just screwing around. It's unnecessary work for the team.

There are now quite a few new features in flying in esf that better gameplay. Firstoff, flying now requires you to have a certain amount of stamina in order to fly. If the amount of stamina you have falls below that level, your flight will automaticly be disabled. There is no cost of stamina while flying, thus keeping flying simple and easy instead of over complicating it. An estimate of the amount of Stamina you must have in order to fly is 25% to 35% of your full stamina meter. Yet, to accomodate the new player who isn't used to double tapping, a new mode of flight has been introduced called "Turbo Flight". To activate this mode, players simply need to turn turbo on, by holding powerup + turbo for a period of time, which spends enough stamina to acquire turbo. In this mode, players can swoop easily by pressing and holding down one direction. Also, the ability to hover has been removed. No longer can you move around in the air without swooping, you're either swooping or falling unless you're powering up. This automatically trains new players to powerup when they stop, this also makes gliding a given for new players and this also makes transfering to the ground occur more often especially when a player has a low amount of ki. This also makes more advanced moves much easier. Also, players will not fall when beaming from the air, but players will fall when shooting a ki blast/ball.

Flying requires ki. It's more true to the show that way. I honestly see no difference in that suggestion. You're changing a required value. That's it. It's useless. You may as well just keep it as it is, because using stamina instead won't make a difference.

Right, you expect them to figure out to hold powerup + turbo for a short period of time, but you don't expect them to figure out to press the same button twice in rapid succession? Stupid and completely useless.

Removing hover and having players swoop constantly is incredibly stupid. While hovering serves no purpose to anyone who isn't AFK, that's still a good enough reason to keep it around. Not to mention faceoffs in the air.

So far, it seems like you aren't really changing the way anything works, you're just changing the way things look, while removing things that honestly don't need to be removed.

The Toggle/Fly button is no longer required and thus is removed from the default controls to make space for a new command. Gliding works the same except you no longer need to press the button to execute it, gliding is a given. Yet to keep up with the idea of "re-inventing" esf, I've implanted a grappling feature only available when gliding. When melee is selected and L-Click is held down, if you manage to come close enough to your oponent without being hit by basic melee or anyother type of melee you will automaticly perform a quick throw. Your character will snag the other player's arm and slowly spin the opponent 360 degrees, before quickly whipping them another 360 degrees and automaticly releasing. The time it takes for the player to auto release is only 2.5 to 3.0 seconds. So to make use of the move the player performing it must react quick as to where he/she will throw the opponent. The speed in which the opponent will travel is equal to the speed of a player who was hit with a "critical hit" in esf 1.2( Very Fast ). The damage is also slightly higher then a basic melee hit to compensate for how much harder it is to land this move.

Eye candy. Useless. The throw system we have now works the same way, only you get to prepunch someone beforehand.

The button used for teleporting is disabled when not flying or powering up, instead it's used as a "Ki-Pumping" button and its' uses vary. This works well because the teleporting button is commonly used, and so will be the new feature called "Ki-Pumping". For example while running if you hold the teleport button you will run faster at the expense of burning ki. Hold the teleport button while jumping and you will jump farther at the expense of burning ki. When beaming from the ground, you may hold the teleport buttom to increase the amount of energy put into the beam. This gives new depth to the game, and allowing a player to spend his ki at will.

I thought we were already able to spend ki at will? This is just more eye candy. It serves no purpose. It's an overly complicated idea. What we have now works fine. Beam jumping, jumping, running, all of that works fine as it is. Turbo enhances running and jumping. Beam jumping doesn't need any enhancements. It's fine. Really it is.

For the purpose of simplicity, recovering is no longer done by left or right click. Instead, recovering is done by hold powerup(the button used to regain ki energy and to maintain flight).

LOL. Right, because left clicking is too difficult. Pressing "e" is so much easier. Genius. Pure genius.

Also to add more depth to the game, a player who's knocked back may curve his/her movement with the directional buttons, thus making it more difficult for a player to land the 2nd hit. Ontop of this a player may also counter-attack with a single "Suprise-Attack" or "any other beam" while being knocked back/recovering. This new feature adds even MORE freedom, MORE depth, and helps the new player dodge a 2nd hit. Of course, when I said "any other beam". You must realize that to use other beams(stronger ones such as kameha) not as a "suprise-attack" takes time to charge and the only way to pull that kind of beam off, would be to fire after the recovery if their opponent misses the 2nd hit. Most likely a single "NON-Suprise Attack" would be used AFTER the 2nd hit, because you cant land the 3rd hit. This feature takes part in Incorperating beams into a real action fight. The real idea in incoperating beams into an experienced deathmatch is in the "Suprise Attack".

I can't think of any criticism for this idea. I actually quite like it.

Blocking has been given a new feature allowing a person to charge a generic beam or blast(ball) in one hand, while blocking in another. If timed right, a player can powerup and fire their "generic beam or blast(ball)" into the beam they were blocking just before it releases. This feature will cause players to enter a beam struggle more often, but not as supspected, for the player who's beam was blocked will mostlikly be convert to stamina(a slightly stronger push force). As stamina decreases so does your hp, and when stamina hits 0 so does your hp(ONLY DURING A BEAM STRUGGLE).

I like half of this idea. I don't like stamina being tied to your HP during beamstruggles. If you think about it, stamina should drain, and THEN your HP should drain. That's more realistic I think. In the show, they often push their stamina to the limit, and are forced to draw upon "life force". So I think, if anything, it should be ki instead of stamina, and HP should only be drained once you run out of ki. Stamina should only limit how long you can go before giving in to the the opponent's beam.

Edit: But I should add that I don't like the blocking with beams or whatever, that's stupid. I merely like the second half of the idea, if it were applied to regular beamstruggling.

 

[VideoJinx]

Haha, alrighty. Let's start from the beginning.

Now this forums is getting somewhere. Thank you spunky.



"Useless. Removing walk to make running the immediate form of movement? I thought it already was. Walking serves purposes other than in combat. It's good for videos (as you should know) and it's good for just screwing around. There may be no reason to keep it, but there's definitely no reason to take it out. Running doesn't require stamina or ki as it is, so that was useless. Running backwards is slower, and not as effective? Gee, who knew? Increasing the run speed is pointless. That's what turbo is for. If you want to run faster, hit turbo. Increasing the running speed without turbo won't do anything because the guy chasing you moves just as fast (or faster if they swoop).""

When I said the "immediate form of movement", I mean a simplistic way(for new players) to move inorder to get away from an experienced player OR to attack another player on the ground. I didn't mean it the way you mentioned it.. so I'll edit to clarrify in my post. As for the walking I said to remove it, from "Default Controls"( This doesn't mean to completely remove it, It will be bindable in console just like +duck". "Running doesn't require stamina or ki as it is", exactly but the speeds are much slower. Now that I'm increasing the speeds I wanted to clarrify this. Running with turbo is useless, I've attempted several times to escape a swooper using it, you'll always get caught by someone swooping.



"Useless. While an alright idea in theory, it's unrealistic. Nobody is going to use that, except maybe if they're just screwing around. It's unnecessary work for the team."

That's a hasty assumption considering you didn't take into mind the ground melee being added in.

"Flying requires ki. It's more true to the show that way. I honestly see no difference in that suggestion. You're changing a required value. That's it. It's useless. You may as well just keep it as it is, because using stamina instead won't make a difference."

Okay you seem like your throwing more of a fit here then critiqueing, but to compensate ill say this. First, there is no cost of stamina when flying, I made this clear. Secondly, you only require a small amount of your stamina to fly at no expense to stamina. If your completely tired, your Not going to fly away(according to the show).

"Right, you expect them to figure out to hold powerup + turbo for a short period of time, but you don't expect them to figure out to press the same button twice in rapid succession? Stupid and completely useless."

Wow, just wow... It seems you're making the assumption that any new player is going to fly like a pro the instant he/she picks up the game. You failed to realise that everyone doesn't have such fast reactions or is willing to practice it unless having fun at the same time. What this new flight does is make flying for the new comer, and exactly like it is currently. Except, you DONT require a double tap+hold to fly, instead you single tap + hold to maintain your flight in the air. Also, you powerup so you dont fall, thus teaching the new comer to powerup as soon as they stop flying. This idea IS THE normal flight, there is NO DIFFERENCE besides your ability to turn turbo on to fly easier, and your inability to flicker turbo on/off.

"Removing hover and having players swoop constantly is incredibly stupid. While hovering serves no purpose to anyone who isn't AFK, that's still a good enough reason to keep it around. Not to mention faceoffs in the air."

Who said anything about falling during a face off? Secondly, you might find adv melee GONE/COMPLETELY CHANGED in esf 1.3. Besides that point, since when does going afk on the ground hurt anyone? Especially since you recover stamina faster when in an idle position?

"So far, it seems like you aren't really changing the way anything works, you're just changing the way things look, while removing things that honestly don't need to be removed."

That's your opinion, you may stick to that.


"Eye candy. Useless. The throw system we have now works the same way, only you get to prepunch someone beforehand."

Completely overlooked I see.. Have you ever seen a critical hit in esf 1.2? It's so rare for it to happen during a fight, but when it does, it's simply fantastic, suprising and sudden. It's so unpredictable and fast that when it happens you can be hit from the ceiling to the ground without catching yourself. Giving that player the ability to put in some extra beams. Now, you say it's useless, I say it adds variety and suprising excitement to the game without slowing gameplay. It also adds further depth to the game, because the only way you'll be able to land this move is to catch someone off gaurd, and once skilled enough you maybe able to knock down 2 opponents with one swing.


"
I thought we were already able to spend ki at will? This is just more eye candy. It serves no purpose. It's an overly complicated idea. What we have now works fine. Beam jumping, jumping, running, all of that works fine as it is. Turbo enhances running and jumping. Beam jumping doesn't need any enhancements. It's fine. Really it is."

Oh yes, you can spend ki at will, when swooping, when beaming, BUT thats not the point behind this idea. The point is having the ability to increase performance in any action at a higher ki burn. Yes, this also MORE depth, More freedom, more UNpredictability in the game. Which is what expereinced players enjoy in the game, is it not?(my opinion)

"
LOL. Right, because left clicking is too difficult. Pressing "e" is so much easier. Genius. Pure genius."

You completely missed the mark. I didn't mean pressing a different button is EASIER to do. I meant this, Powerup is the button ALL players are most familiar with, and so making powerup the button to recover would give it a better feel to a new player. This is motivated towards the pick up and play aspect.


"I can't think of any criticism for this idea. I actually quite like it."

Thank you very much.


"I like half of this idea. I don't like stamina being tied to your HP during beamstruggles. If you think about it, stamina should drain, and THEN your HP should drain. That's more realistic I think. In the show, they often push their stamina to the limit, and are forced to draw upon "life force". So I think, if anything, it should be ki instead of stamina, and HP should only be drained once you run out of ki. Stamina should only limit how long you can go before giving in to the the opponent's beam."

I'm very thankfull for this crituqe because I agree with the part where you said "stamina should drain, and THEN your HP should drain". Yet, i question whether ki should be drained at all during a beam struggle, unless your able to charge up and pump a bigger energy wave into the beam. I'll definately be editing that

"Edit: But I should add that I don't like the blocking with beams or whatever, that's stupid. I merely like the second half of the idea, if it were applied to regular beamstruggling."

I never suggested blocking with beams. I suggested being able to return a blocked beam with an energy blast of your own at the end of it forcing the opponent to use what ever litle stamina or hp they have left to win the ps.

 

[sub]

Jinx, I like you, you know I like you, so anything I write in this post should in no way be considered an insult. I'm just going to be brutally honest with you, because you're Jinx. With that being said:

Your suggestions are usually horrible. You need to stop suggesting ten thousand things every other week and sit down and think one of them through. You seem to want to add things for the sake of adding them, which is not what ESF needs. For example, the swooping idea. The swooping idea is making it more complicated for the sake of making it more complicated. I don't think ESF will ever be a pick up and play game, but we should do everything in our power (within reason, of course) to make it easy for new players to understand how to play. Having two modes of swooping would go against that goal.

With that being said, I'll further explain myself, since you asked for it.

Interesting that you can say NO without explaining why.. or discrediting the idea to show if its bad..... as for recovery being simpler, this is what i mean..


POWERUP is the button all players are most familiar with?

So.. POWERUP being used to recover would be a natural feel for a player who just learning the controls. the player ISNT POWERING UP KI ENERGY while recovering, no where in the idea does it suggest that. I suggest you read carefully..

It's not a matter of misreading what you said, I know exactly what you're suggesting. It's a useless idea.

Powerup is a button I, as an avid player of ESF, am familiar with. The left mouse button is also a button I, as an avid ESF player, am familiar with. It makes absolutely no difference whether holding down left click makes you recover, or holding powerup makes you recover.

Now, you want to do this because it would make the game simpler. It's not making the game simpler, however, it's changing what a button does. If you want to make the game simpler, you should make recovering automatic. New players have no idea you can recover, and having it automatic would be one less thing to worry about, without removing anything important from the game.

Understand?

you say no to the jumping idea, yet you dont explain why, and you then proceed to mock it by imagining spiderman.. this isnt spider-man its dbz .....
and you notice ALL idea suggested have " (General Idea ) " before them. Meaning you aren't reading each idea in exact detail of how they work.

Jinx, I assure you, it's not a matter of me not reading the ideas. I know what you're suggesting, stop thinking that no one can possibly dislike your ideas.

You seem to not be understanding my post though. I wasn't mocking your idea by imagining spiderman, whatever that means. I was pointing out that what you suggested for the jumping idea is essentially how jumping works in the videogame spiderman 2. I pointed that out so anyone who was having a hard time understanding your idea would have something to compare it with.

The reason I said no to this particular idea is because jumping is fine the way it is now. This would be more work for the ESF team, and it would be wasted work since the idea adds nothing to the game.

Understand?

you say no to the running and yet you dont even know the details how runnnig will be changed, and you still dont explain how the idea is bad.. also the speed of the running is an ESTIMATE as clarified in the post. EVERYTHING would have to be tested ingame and fine tuned inorder to achieve balance.

You didn't tell me the details. I said no based on what I was told by you. I don't know how I'm in the wrong on this one.

As for the running idea itself, the reason I said no is because this is a DBZ game. We don't have a ground combat system in place and I sincerely doubt 1.3 will see a ground combat system in place. Why you're trying to encourage people to run on the ground is beyond me.

In any case, the "ESTIMATE" you gave me is absurd. 75 percent of the speed of swooping is waaaay to fast, considering it would cost no ki to move at this speed. Yes, I realize it's an estimate, but I can only work with what you give me, Jinx.

Understand?

Let me point out.. this is to RE-invent esf, stop imagining the old esf thats already existing and imagine what esf COULD BE.

I understand that this is what ESF could be, which is why I'm posting here. I'm trying to prevent ESF from being horrible, which is what you seem to want to make it.

you also say NO to the swoop idea, and dont explain anything. Instead you say no and it should be this way without any explaination besides " it would make it complex". In no way does this make swoooping complex. It's exactly like esf 1.2's swoop, except now if you turn turbo on YOU NO LONGER REQUIRE THE DOUBLE TAP TO FLY you only require pressing a direction and holding it down to continue flight. IN no way does this make the game complex.

Stop putting **** in caps. I understood what you were suggesting before, and I understand what you're suggesting now.

Your swooping idea would make the game more complex. Instead of one way to initiate a swoop, there would now be two ways. I can picture the conversations in servers now:

"WHATS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE TWO SWOOPING MODES???/?????"

It would confuse people, Jinx. We need to keep the game simple. There should be one mode of swooping, and there should be one way to initiate that swoop. You turn turbo on, you're now in swoop mode. Any movement that is done with turbo on will now be a swoop. Simple and easy to understand.

Understand?

And from your idea of having swooping Disabled when turbo is off.. this would take away from gameplay, because it limits movement.. also floating or hovering isn't usefull in esf so why have it.

It doesn't limit movement, it makes movement elegant and easy to understand.

I don't know why you want to get rid of hovering. People hover when they want to launch beams and what not. Taking away hoover would make the overall game worse for reasons which I assume would be obvious.

You say no to the ki pumping idea, yet you give no explanation of how it's bad. This feature is similar to a game called ssx3, where you can hold the button down to move faster, at the cost of spending your energy. That energy could also be used for tricks to get more energy. It added depth and more entertainment to the game.. If u cant explain why it's bad.. dont shoot it down, cuz odds are it's mostlikely not bad.

Judging from your track record, odds are more likely than not that it is bad.

That type of thing should not be in ESF. We already have turbo, which serves as a means of enhancing the damage of your attacks. We don't need another feature which does roughly the same thing. If you're seriously crazy in love with this idea, keep it simple. Make turbo increase how fast you run or how high you jump in addition to making your attacks more powerful. Otherwise, you're adding more **** to an already complicated game.

In short, I rejected the idea because it makes the game more complicated for no valid reason. The main reason people quit ESF is because they don't ever learn how to play the game. You want to make the game more complicated by adding stuff which won't increase the fun anyone is having.

Understand?

Once again for the blocking idea you simply say no,...

you have irrationally discredited practically all ideas without thought.. your post means nothing if you dont explain why.

A simple "no" may as well be nothing.

When I look at an idea, I think of how much effort it will be to implement and I look at what it will do for the game. Will it make the game more fun? Will it balance the game out? Will it make the game easier to play? No? Then why do I want to add it?

The blocking idea is useless. If you want to start a powerstruggle, charge a beam instead of blocking. The models in ESF are scaled down 4 times of what regular half-life models are. This makes it hard to determine what animation the other guy is doing. You're not not going to see someone faking a block, you're going to see a figure which vaguely resembles someone in DBZ from afar..

Understand?

Lastly but not least, to have an automatic recovery Takes AWAY FROM gameplay. Because you can no longer recover at different times, thus your opponent always knows when your going to recover unless you dont have enough ki to recover.

This takes away from the randomness/FREEDOM to of esf, and from what i recall I remember someone from the ESF Team saying they wanted esf to stay free not automatic.

If you could recover at will (IE: The second you press the recover button, you're able to start moving again), I might be inclined to agree with you. But you can't. Recovering should be automatic, you're 100 percent wrong when you say it will take away from the gameplay. You're just wrong.


And with that, I bid you farewell. And remember mods, it may seem like I'm flaming him, but he's Jinx. Contrary to popular belief, me and jinx are friends o_o