It looks like you've only got four characters there that might be good candidates for consideration. Of course, they are going to have to lose half their attacks since ESF is about balance, which is a concept you seem to be having trouble with. /me looks at attack list. Yea, a freezing blast that damages and cripples your opponent is fair 
.
I feel now would be a good time to point out to you two thing that just jumped off the page at me on your list.
Turles
Maybe you didn't know this, but the Half-Life engine can't support terrain damage. Something else you may not have known, there is no Oozaru in ESF.
So, you still haven't said a thing about balance which leads me to believe you haven't actually thought any of this out. Yea, Garlic Jr. would be a perfect addition with his three trap attacks, two of which are insta-kill.
As for the movie villains uniqueness. They all beat the crap out of the main characters because they are all overpowered (so unique!) untill they get mad or put in a tight spot or something goes wrong and the main characters win by the skin of their teeth. Most of the time they are so overpowered Goku has to try and spirit bomb them. Fancy that I just described all the movies.
Though, it shouldn't surprise me that someone with a GT avatar and someone with both "SSJ3" and "Goku" in their name want movie characters in.
. I feel now would be a good time to point out to you two thing that just jumped off the page at me on your list.
Turles
Maybe you didn't know this, but the Half-Life engine can't support terrain damage. Something else you may not have known, there is no Oozaru in ESF.
So, you still haven't said a thing about balance which leads me to believe you haven't actually thought any of this out. Yea, Garlic Jr. would be a perfect addition with his three trap attacks, two of which are insta-kill.
As for the movie villains uniqueness. They all beat the crap out of the main characters because they are all overpowered (so unique!) untill they get mad or put in a tight spot or something goes wrong and the main characters win by the skin of their teeth. Most of the time they are so overpowered Goku has to try and spirit bomb them. Fancy that I just described all the movies.
Though, it shouldn't surprise me that someone with a GT avatar and someone with both "SSJ3" and "Goku" in their name want movie characters in.
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My god...
This was the first thing that caught my eye when the page loaded:
Well, that set you in good stead for the rest of the post, lets see what else there is:
Even in those cases they're just ideas i'm throwing around and haven't balanced.
I was responding to a statement by you that I couldn't find
1. A single character...
2. ...with transformations ...
3. ...and at least two unique moves...
4. ...and then balance it.
I found the characters (4 of them according to you so there goes the 'single' part), then I found transformations. I said I would be updating with attacks (which i've done to an extent) and then i'll balance it.
This was the first thing that caught my eye when the page loaded:
Oh of course, because SSJ3, Goku and GT were specific to the movies. Except they weren't. Judging people on their avatars is pretty moronic, for instance: ZeroNightmare uses a default avatar, so do you assume he sucks with graphics? That's funny, he's got plenty of threads in the Artwork section that say otherwise. Synth has a GT sig and he's a moderator. Same applies to names, it has no bearing on the person itself. Using your logic i'm going to assume you have a childs mentality because you have a Puzzle Bobble avatar, a simple, colourful game aimed at the younger generation.
Well, that set you in good stead for the rest of the post, lets see what else there is:
Not bad considering the first four movies were the blandest and most uninteresting, and considering I didn't get past seven. If you'd seen the movies you'd know they get better as they progress, but my guess is that you haven't.
Or a concept I haven't even covered yet. I'm hardly likely to balance the list when I haven't even completed it. I said at the bottom i'll update when I feel like it, and i've done so twice already. You can criticise my balancing when i've actually done it.
I was talking about in the movie, i'm only talking about ESF where there's brackets. I would've thought that would be obvious, considering I say 'in ESF' in the brackets
Even in those cases they're just ideas i'm throwing around and haven't balanced.As I mentioned earlier, I haven't thought about balance yet, which goes some way to explain why I haven't mentioned it. I've made many many threads in Suggestions, and if I think something will be unbalanced i'll think of a way of balancing it and post it, same with everyone elses suggestions. Again, don't criticise my balance if I haven't balanced anything yet. It's like me criticising your Tien model, oh wait, you haven't made one yet.
I was responding to a statement by you that I couldn't find
1. A single character...
2. ...with transformations ...
3. ...and at least two unique moves...
4. ...and then balance it.
I found the characters (4 of them according to you so there goes the 'single' part), then I found transformations. I said I would be updating with attacks (which i've done to an extent) and then i'll balance it.
What has that got to do with anything? The fact that it creates a huge crater is because a) he uses it at the ground not a person, and b) because it was a strong attack. Would you really think i'd suggest an attack that could only make craters? No. As for Oozaru not being in ESF; I know that, I was talking about the movie (if it was ESF it would be in brackets like this). Besides, Oozaru *could* be added to ESF. In Half-Life you had monsters of varying size (Headcrab, Gargantua, Nihilanth) and in ESF you have players of varying size (Krillin, Form 2 Frieza) so an Oozaru could be added, it could be an upcoming feature of 1.3 that hasn't been made public. Anyway, I was talking about the movie so that's beside the point.
I don't think any further statement is necessary considering what I said earlier regarding balance.
Fancy that, you just described most of DBZ. It's sort of hard for the creators to condense around 30 episodes into an hour of film, which is why they sometimes start off with an advantage, or only have one trans instead of four. Frieza started off with an advantage in the series too. We better take him out of ESF before he makes it unbalanced.
No, you just described Movies 2, 3 and to a lesser extent, 7. 3/13 is not 'all of the movies', Pain, it's not even half. But hey, what do I know, i've only got a GT Avatar, right?
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i agree with ravendust >_> seriously think about what you guys are arguing against.. the balancing can all be decided by the team.. that shouldn't be a problem....seriously also if you had a choice between sticking to 9 characters because they're more unique or having 20 characters INCLUDING those 9 characters, what would you choose? you'd be really stupid imo to choose ONLY 9 characters. like i said in other threads, the more characters the merrier. it's just up to whoever is making it to sacrifice time, work, and effort in implementing new characters.
Actually it was more in reference to to the team saying "No GT and no movie content". You see how that is lumped together there? Makes a connection to your avatar. It was a joke to try and lighten the mood, but I guess that stick is a bit too far up your ass. No idea why you are trying to assume my feelings towards other forum members either, it's pretty moronic.Ravendust said:
Don't pat yourself on the back too hard, I only said it because you listed attacks that were already in the game.
I also haven't boasted that I could make one, stupid point.
Each of those points is dependent on the others. If you don't have all of it it's useless. It's like having a car without wheels. Do you give half a resume to a job and tell them you'll get around to finishing it when you feel like it?
You know full well your list is for characters being put into the game. If I want a list of movie characters and abilities I'll go to a fan site. I really don't know you so I have no idea if you would suggest a crater making attack, honestly. The fact that you put it on a list for characters to be added into ESF says enough about it to me.
Wildy making suggestions about attacks for characters and how they should work in the game without thinking about balance is... not something I'd continue to make habbit of.
Actually DBZ is more about, "Holy crap there's a really strong bad guy coming, let's train!" The movies, as I said, are "Holy crap he's uber strong, how are we going to win? *pulls something out of ass*. YAY WE WON!"
You also seem to have trouble recognizing that some characters need to be trimmed down in order to balance ESF, hence why movie characters would lose their glamour if they were put in. That happend with Frieza, so if you were trying to make some sort of point with that crack, you failed miserably.
Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say it was all the movies. But hey, what do you know, you've only got a GT avatar, right?
As for for "the more the merrier", I'm all for that, but there would be a lot of *****ing from people because their favorite character isn't how he was in the movie they saw, because of game balance. Some of the attacks don't even look like they could be used at all. As for "balancing can be done by the team", why would you want to burden them with MORE work like that? At least try to be helpfull. Plus, if you include reasons why and how to balance a character, I'm sure the team will look at that character more seriously.
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Funny that you use the phrase ' it's pretty moronic' after flaming me. I would believe you if you hadn't mentioned 'SSJ3 Goku' as well. As for your feelings toward other forum members, I was using them as an example, and i'm sure if you reread the paragraph carefully you'll see that.
Well yeah, but attacks fall into similar types; beams, balls/blasts, lasers, discs etc...just about any attack I suggest will have a similar ESF counterpart because that's what it was like in the show.
Neither did I. At no point did I make a boast, and on top of that I did it. Before you say it, just because it's incomplete doesn't mean I haven't made it, it just means there's more to come.
Thank you, you've sort of proven my point. Each point is dependent on the others. Their dependency is in the order I put them, can't balance attacks without attacks, can't have attacks without characters. Can't balance forms without characters. Therefore I have to start at the start with characters, which is what I did.
And the list being incomplete? I've spent upwards on two hours on it if you include watching the movies again. No wonder I didn't do it in one sitting. The purpose of showing the 'template' if you will is so people could add to it. This is a forum after all. Speaking of incomplete things being made avaialable, ESF.
No...it's about characters that could be added to the game. When it comes to balancing i'll be more analytic about them, if I think it'll be unbalanced i'll balance it, and it's possible to balance anything.
As you said yourself, balance is dependant on me having something to balance. Also out of my entire list I only mentioned 'how they should work in game' three or four times.
Three of the movies 'pulled something out of their ass' to win but the majority happened in the series as well (or at least something very similar). How do I have trouble trimming down characters for balance when I haven't given any of their stats? Bearing in mind everyone weaker than Majin Buu (Everyone except Hildegarne) would have the same rules applied to them as Buu did. In the series Krillin could never have beaten Frieza, Cell or Buu, but in the game it's possible through balance. As for characters 'losing their glamour', look at the Broly thread I made below this one, the vast majority want to see Broly in even if he's watered down for balance. Introducing a character who's power is comparativley close to their series or movie counterpart would be like...well...EVM.
No offence but when I last quoted you I highlighted the times you used the word 'all'. If you look at your original post you'll see it, provided you haven't edited it since. And just in case you do, here's the original quote:
How more obvious can I make it? I'm sorry I can't write it in three-foot high letters in 27 different langauges, but i'm sure you can see it now.
If you're looking for a summary:
Ravendust: Here's a list of characters and attacks which contradicts your claim that I can't find anything in the set criteria. It is clearly incomplete and will be updated in time.
Pain: You haven't talked about balance. Stop suggesting overpowered characters.
Ravendust: I know, it's incomplete, I said that. Characters are not overpowered when their stats haven't been mentioned.
There are a number of attacks that don't fall into any of those catagories. I honestly doubt there would be any way to balance half of those. I think you will have a hard time with them.Ravendust said:
You didn't? Are you sure?
Ravendust said:
Please... don't nitpick at the way I've phrased things. It means the same thing, you know and I know it.
It's those three or four times I was talking about. Specifically the 'put player in a bottle = death' and 'suck into deadzone = death' things.
Come on... Do you honestly think that if Brolly was put in, in a watered down state, that the forum wouldn't have a "Why isn't Brolly stronger?!?! you suck!!1!1one" every week?. For real, man, it would happen. Just like we have noobs coming in, not reading any stickies and posting something that was answered in the thread under theirs.
If you take those last two sentences of mine out of context you'd have a point. However, if you look at the whole thing, you'll see I didn't say Goku spirit bombed everyone in all the movies. When I said I had described all the movies I was refering to the entire paragraph, not the sentence preceeding it.
I think it would look more like this
Dust: Here's a list to prove you wrong.
Pain: Where's the rest of it.
Dust: It's incomplete but it still proves you wrong.
Pain: To prove me wrong you have to complete the list.
Dust: I'll do it when I feel like it, untill then, you're wrong. Don't comment on anything I've posted yet, because it's incomplete, but you're still wrong.
Now in all fairness, please do prove me wrong. I'd love to see a complete list of any characters you can manage to balance out for ESF. At the moment, your incomplete list has shown a little promise, but not enough in my eyes.
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wait a sec this confuses me: he considers insulting other people and judging them based on what they like, as a mood enlightener?
and one more thing, why do you people constantly assume just because they were strong in the movie or in the show theyre gonna be the strongest possible character you could have in esf?
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Ok Pain and Ravendust you guys are on the verge of flaming each other. To ensure that you guys don't get a warning I suggest you guy stop making fun of each other. As for what Ravendust as done, I appreciate it 100%. You come up with some good characters and balancing them out is the easy part. Getting them past the team is the hard part.
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yes pain, give it up there are some movie characters that would fight right into esf
You're like a little kid that butts into his brothers conversation saying, "YEA WHAT HE SAID!!"Saiyan Knight said:
Instead of hopping on the bandwagon why don't you come up with some discussion points on your own.
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ok, please stop flaming me and ravendust
as for my "points" Broly has about 3 moves, he could be slow and suited for melee, and garlic juinier, he could have 1 transformation or some buddies and a couple pretty cool moves
as for my "points" Broly has about 3 moves, he could be slow and suited for melee, and garlic juinier, he could have 1 transformation or some buddies and a couple pretty cool moves
All movie characters suck, cept for brolly cuz he was designed and the story was partially written by akira toriyama, maybe it'd be cool to have him in, but he'd be a bit out of place when other characters such as gotenks, and adult gohan, etc, arent included. See this is the exact reason i suggested my model options idea, there are easily ways to replace characters to make them movie characters without having to code them in.
I'd rather have model options implemented than tien, gotenks or any movie character. if you dont know what model options is, look here: http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=54339
just think of the possibilities
goku - turles, bardock
gohan - Adult gohan
cell
buu
frieza - cooler
trunks - Janemba, tapion, dabura
piccolo - nail, lord slug
krillin - yamcha, tien
android 18/17 - Goten and trunks?
ginyu - androids from movie 7
i cant think of others... but u catch my drift
I'd rather have model options implemented than tien, gotenks or any movie character. if you dont know what model options is, look here: http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=54339
just think of the possibilities
goku - turles, bardock
gohan - Adult gohan
cell
buu
frieza - cooler
trunks - Janemba, tapion, dabura
piccolo - nail, lord slug
krillin - yamcha, tien
android 18/17 - Goten and trunks?
ginyu - androids from movie 7
i cant think of others... but u catch my drift
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well the only characters that really deserve to be in are Gotenks, Broly, and Tien(and i wish bubbles ) so even if these model options work, doesnt someone have to make them?
) so even if these model options work, doesnt someone have to make them?Yes, but coding in each individual character is much harder/takes much longer and is much harder to persuade coders who already have enough work on their hands to spend even longer on something they dont want to do, than the community being able to add multiple characters to their esf whenever they want, there are quite a few models already out there but i dislike replacing models, as i like all the original character a lot more. However it'd be great to be able to add all the other characters you want, which the model options idea woul allow you to, at any time. Im sure many people would voluntarily work on character packs as its one of the best parts about this comunity because esf is so customiseable. I really want to push this idea forward cuz well... its really worth it imo.
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But don't you think they could use the same code form other character but change the numbers around? Cause pretty much each character does the same thing: Power up, Shoot energy, Punch and kick, Fly. So you think it would be a little easier.Davidskiwan said:
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Davidskiwan you had a wonderful gotenks idea, cold steel liked it. but i wouldnt like model options because its just like being the character you are cloning, it would just be eye candy
its not my gotenks idea >_> it was imkongkong or it was overlord.....
Yes it'd be eye candy, but im not saying we shud scrap adding new characters im just saying i would love model options even more because it would mean all these movie characters and other characters (which there are many) could be implemented whenever anybody wanted to as 90% of the moves in dbz are exactly the same. As it is its a lot of work to code a new unique character, then you have to model, skin and animate it, and do the sprites, and the sounds, the team already have a lot of work to do, and they havent got the time for all of that, and im just guessing here but im pretty sure 1.3 will most likely be the last version of esf. Its like you didnt even read the model options thread =\ http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=54339
Yes it'd be eye candy, but im not saying we shud scrap adding new characters im just saying i would love model options even more because it would mean all these movie characters and other characters (which there are many) could be implemented whenever anybody wanted to as 90% of the moves in dbz are exactly the same. As it is its a lot of work to code a new unique character, then you have to model, skin and animate it, and do the sprites, and the sounds, the team already have a lot of work to do, and they havent got the time for all of that, and im just guessing here but im pretty sure 1.3 will most likely be the last version of esf. Its like you didnt even read the model options thread =\ http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=54339
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Hmm... Sounds to me like you havent seen any of the movies.Davidskiwan said:
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haha sounds to me like he has ^_^SSJ3 Gokou said:
anyway, how dare you say all the movie characters suck david
you know full well that Future gohan (history of trunks) is my fav char ^_^
and bardok, he really is a cool charcter, but he dose lack any attacks with names apart from the "moon" ball vegeta told goku he had made and that ki blast he threw at frezia.
I like that model changing idea ALOT, it would solve so many problems when trying to choose where to put my bardok or gohan models
Main thing I think needs to change in ESF is just more charcacters say they just add four or five new characters all basic ones nothing major then just give them really basic attacks, like a beams, a ball of energy etc. (use people like bardok, and make the attacks slightly diffrent for each person) then the comunity can just screw around with the models all they want ^_^