Struggle System - How do you think the 'ball' type attack struggles should work?

[Safin]

Maybe when you are attacked by a weak ball type you can just stop your energy wave and fly away like opponent. However when it's a strong one like genki dama i think both of warriors should be unable to move.

 

[vector]

You can also have a limit of 1 if the ball attack out at a time so you can’t spam it. If I’ve done a Big Bang attack, i can’t start a new one until the first one has blown up

 

[Nebulisreconx]

I think as a special condition you should be able to detach a beam when struggling against a ball. Or just make the alternate fire for any beam/ball attack non controlable ie fire and forget. But at the same time that should reduce the power of the attack.

I feel like the spirit bomb should be controlable by default. You never see goku move after creating it and in multiple instances he has had control over it after launching it. Save for Frieza.

 

[unpr3dictabl3]

Perhaps if you are the one on the receiving end of the ball attack, you can use the KI you have left to apply a type of pulse (like a beam or ball attack on its own), then depending on the power level, attack, and whichever elements you use to determine the strength of a blast, the blast can be deflected if you are able to apply enough of your own power level and KI to overpower the strength of the blast, otherwise you would just have to button-mash or something to attempt to deflect it with raw strength.

Although I am aware that this still very much leaves the possibility of leaving the receiver exhausted while the sender can recharge KI and Stamina within that time; The locking & controlling system for the ball attacks seems like a reasonable idea (Perhaps still the ability to teleport/instant transmission while channeling?).

 

[IFlip92]

Option 1: I think a person engaging in block-struggle against a ball, if successful he should have the advantage of gained strength (PL) from struggling and perhaps instead of swatting the ball away, having it absorbed so he doesn't lose KI or Stamina, but gains it instead; if that is not balanced enough, perhaps if the attack was particularly strong, gain a temporary raised max capacity of Ki or Stamina if absorbed (Buff. See also Alt. Buff Ideas at bottom). This is one solution to prevent having to lock the ball shooting player in position, which also seems like a major no-no because then the shooter is defenseless.

Option 2: lock the shooter in place ONLY if the victim engages in a block-struggle.

Option 3: if struggle is successful, send ball attack back to shooter with an aggressive homing lock-on.

Option 4: this one is more tedious, because you would have to treat every ball type attack differently in the game:
Generic ones cannot be block-struggled (but swatted instead); Spirit Bomb/Death Ball - the shooter is locked in place but allow the option to detonate on demand; Big Bang attack or other smaller-than-spirit-bomb ball-type attacks are the most difficult to cater for but I think they should allow the shooter to move after being shot, can't think of an appropriate drawback to this.... However, I do think that if the PL of the victim is X amount higher he should be able to swat the attack away, or if he uses turbo, reduce the amount of time he block-struggles. Perhaps apply my buff idea to the latter type of attacks?

Option 5: Idea-sex. Combine 2 or several ideas from Options 1-4 to form the final solution ^^.


Alt. Buff ideas:
Temporary increased fly/movement speed.
Temporary dismissal of Ki/Stamina depletion.
Gain 1 Shield buff/stack, making the victim invincible to the next damaging attack/combo.
Temporary increased Ki/Stamin recovery rate, perhaps even passively.


Food for thought: what if I, the shooter, shoot a ball attack and then fly faster than it to become the victim and block-struggle it myself?

Later edit:
I just got on to Discord and read the FAQ and I must say I am disappointed majorly in the direction you are taking the whole PL system. I understand where you are coming from with regards to why you have made the decisions you have, but a game should feel rewarding for playing. There is also something magical when two or more people "grow" fighting together and having a lovely battle, with rewards (gaining power, at the end of the day that is what we fight for?!). With that being said, I'm going to keep this short and sweet and say I think you are making bad decisions in order to accommodate players who are joining a server later than others. I feel you would be better off to give a new joining player the average PL of all players on the server and go from there, whilst retaining the Strength scaling of PL. Maybe turn this into a server tick option. This way, the newer player may not have worked for his PL, but he will from the moment he joins, whilst having fun and being in the same ballpark as everyone else and growing with everyone else from that point onwards. Everyone wants to get stronger in a DBZ game (PL should affect explosions range and power) and I fear you might be stripping that away. What else is there otherwise? Everyone is just going to play the fastest character to get the edge instead.

 

[Reading Rainbow]

Keep the ball user in the locked position.

 

[Oreamus]

Alright, so .... just my 2 cents here. I honestly feel like having more variety in fighting styles is great and like the idea that ball attacks still allow the attacker to move (balancing it is the key). It is something completely different from beam attacks and makes it more viable. Beam attacks as it is in 1.2.3 never have much impact in a match and unless they were hugely buffed in Final I dont see them being all that great with how big the maps are. I think having Ball attacks can offer a lot of variety in fighting styles and to balance them I would say why not allow the Beam users able to cancel their beams early. Say a beam struggles with a ball, the beam user noticed the other attacker approaching him and he can stop the beam and defend himself (stopping the beam on an uncontrolled Ball attack would result in both exploding and causing radius damage, this could very well hit the person approaching him from the said Ball attack, good balancing/counters right there)

Another thing is, why not give the option to both players? Allow Ball attack users and Beam users both the ability to maintain teh struggle and push it back, But at any point they can cancel their beam and go on the approach. This can be done in a very appropriate way. Whoever disengages teh beam struggle, has the other beam/ball traveling at them at super speeds (it would be the punishment for not continuing to engage). What would the benefit be for ball users to keep engaging you say, well the benefit would be that the radius of explosion gets much bigger and does more damage the longer you channel its travel .... and you have the option of triggering it early as well. I like the aspects of using ball attacks, but I would say its damage/radius should depend on how long you channel during its travel duration.

Honestly, I like the idea in the first one a lot better. Letting Beam users able to detonate a struggle in which a ball user is not controlling it still is very viable and can offer some great Gameplay mechanics. Allowing ball users the ability to use a ball as a distraction is still a great gameplay mechanic as well. I'm unsure how the beams/balls will be powering up in Final but if its like 1.2.3 the way it can be achieved is that while the ball user is cahrging up, when it gets to the yellow bar (the min required) it throws the ball off, but the remainder of its power is built up by continuing to channel it and stay in control. You see this happen a lot in DBZ, The spirit bomb and deathball can be let go by themselves .... but they always do more when the primary attacker stays channeling and pushes it forward. The ball attacks that stay unchanneled have always fallen flat.

I'd like to see something in this direction.

 

[Henry]

I know there has been a lot of options to go with already, I'm probably late for this but screw it...

I have 2 ideas, but they pretty much share the same basics.

--
1.

I think that ball attacks should have the ability to struggle just like beam attacks. What I think is that the user should be able to choose (by holding down the button perhaps) whether he wants to struggle or not when the powers clash.

If the user chooses not to struggle, then the ball attack loses power for the struggle, say it's 30% easier to win the struggle for the opponent but he can move freely.

--
2.

An optional approach for this would be to allow the user to choose whether he wants to struggle or not before charging the attack (say the user presses the button and then use Left/Right click for Struggle or Not Struggle) and if he chooses to avoid struggling, then the user won't be able to charge the attack to its fullest.
--

What I believe is that the ability to move freely while your opponent is struggling with your attack should come at a cost but it shouldn't be your only option to avoid crippling the fun.

 

[Devion]

Why not just copy dragonball?

Ball should work just like a beam, but a ball can be "disengaged", gives the user his mobility back, but loses the option of power up the ball anymore.

Ofcourse the user that disengage the ball/beam(or ball/ball) struggle, should get some form of penalty, like stamina loss.

 

[Newfolder]

Maybe it looks good on paper but it doesn't look good ingame.

It's not good decision to block player. It would be cool in 1vs1 game when you have ball struggle (i.e. Goku's genki dama vs kid buu) but when you have 8 players on server?...

In the middle of nowhere there is player who is in "ball struggle mode" with another player on the other edge of the map... and another question - is he vulnerable? Can you attack that player?
I think it's hard decision.
And the most important question why would you even want to block that ball type attack (i.e. genki dama) and struggle with another player if you don't have any reward, because ball attack you can just dodge.

Beam struggle works quite different. If you win struggle you kill opponent. But if you win ball struggle?