State of the Forums

[sub]

Yeah, it was sarcasm. The official story at the time was the Open Beta had been in the planning stages long before the Minion thing, and was certainly not a result of the leak. Of course, we knew we were being lied to (as usual), and a lot of people were irritated by it. That irritation builds up over time and becomes anger and dissatisfaction, and then we have threads like this popping up.

I can understand people wanting a stable community, but the fact of the matter is, we're not attracting very many new people to the forum, and those that to come don't stay for very long. They usually sign up just to ask if they can play ESF with a pirated copy of HL or to ask about EVM. At this point in time, we should be worried about retention. There's nothing any of us can do to attract new people until 1.3 comes around, but there are steps and measures we can take to keep ESF's hardcore base happy.

This is probably a horrible example, but our clan forum is unmoderated except for if someone signs onto the forum with the intention of starting problems with someone or posts 2 girls 1 cup or something like that. You have to go out of your way to get yourself yelled at or banned by one of us. However, if there's a discussion that turns into an argument, and people start lashing out at each other, we let them be. Know what happens? They burn themselves out. At the end of the argument, they both look like morons and everyone laughs at them. I know that isn't going to happen here, but it works and it works well.

I completely agree with the anti-4crap sentiment, though. Some people think it's my generation's crowning achievement. I'm just not one of them.

Well, our forum was much smaller and we all knew each other. It worked for a while, but our forum is pretty dead right now. You, me and Dogma post there. If anyone else visits, its rarely. The reason our forum is dead isn't because of how we handled the moderation, though. It had more to do with everyone being tied to the forum by ESF and people losing interest in ESF. I obviously think that our approach is better, but you and I both know it'll never happen here.

 

[Zeonix]

Our activity is proportional to the number of people signed up, though. Compare the number of people who signed up to the ESF forum versus the number of active members. We might be doing better if you think of it that way. Oh and uh...are we not counting NGE because he isn't of age? He might not appreciate that. You know what happens when he gets angry, man.

 

[sub]

Our members have made a total of 7,203 posts
We have 97 registered members
Most users ever online was 10 on Oct 7 2006, 01:59 PM
We started April of 06.

I guess. And we have to count NGE. He cares, Zeo. Always has.

 

[Spunky]

To be honest, moderation itself is pretty much unnecessary anywhere unless you're only dealing with kids or immature people. Otherwise, older, more mature members can generally set a good example. If someone posts porn or something, then of course some punishment is necessary (unless it's good porn), or if someone directly insults someone else (meaning no more of this "no sarcasm" ****).

I've thought of leaving several times simply because the moderation is too strict (in fact, I thought of leaving after making my first post in this thread), and sometimes the moderators make completely retarded decisions (*cough* Phobius). It honestly sucks any and all fun out of being here. I know I'm not alone here, I've talked to a few other big names here who completely agree with me (especially about moderators making retarded decisions).

But moderators are protected by other moderators. It's hard to find a moderator to complain to who wouldn't be conflicted in his decision to punish his friend. Even if you do find someone, you never hear back from them on what happened, so you can only assume that nothing happened and the guilty moderator is laughing at you for even trying, which pisses you off more and makes you think about leaving (for the 100th time), although you won't do it because you keep telling yourself that you can make appeals such as this and that the moderators will surely listen some day.

But they never do, and never will. This thread is and likely will be a testament to that.

 

[Damaera]

There just needs to be more moderators. Ones that are not extremely strict.

 

[Zeonix]

More moderators? That's like saying, "THERE'S A LOT OF POLICE BRUTALITY GOING ON, GUYS! WE NEED MORE POLICE!"

Out with the old, in with the new. We don't need more mods. We just need new mods.

 

[Chakra-X]

I completely agree with the anti-4crap sentiment, though. Some people think it's my generation's crowning achievement. I'm just not one of them.

***** needs to stick to ***** =/. I see it too goddamn much, even in real life sometimes.

Internet=/=*****. Just wanted to get that out.

Edit: Why is the name of the site censored..?

To be honest, moderation itself is pretty much unnecessary anywhere unless you're only dealing with kids or immature people

I've seen plenty of ****ish posts around here and then when the person gets warned, they get an attitude. I don't know, maybe because "the internet is(not) serious business" attitude means manners and etiquette are less of a priority.

I use words like "nit picky" and "stick in the mud" to describe certain moderator strictness. I really think "extremely strict" is an exaggeration. I've seen snide or sarcastic posts that were legitimately humorous and/or appropriate, and then the user would get reprimanded. This was usually do to a misinterpretation of the post or that the moderator just does not like that user. BUT, then I see people just act like asses and get pissed that they can't do what they want on a forum with rules.

What is it that the moderators won't let us do?...

Okay I have one instance actually. I remember Kidboy saying something about "now I know not to blahblahblah", and I posted saying "And knowing is half the battle! I'm sorry, I just had to say that" and a moderator (Lee, coincidentally) told me I was spamming. Now that, I think, is very "stick in the mud"ish.

 

[Suh Dude]

Out with the old, in with the new. We don't need more mods. We just need new mods.

We need new active moderators and not ones that post 3 times a month.
​

 

[MF29]

Anyone considering replacing mods who haven't logged in, in the past 20 years?

 

[Spunky]

Yeah really, there are more mods than active members, and there aren't many active members.

 

[Dirty]

Yeah really, there are more mods than active members, and there aren't many active members.

I was just going to say that.

 

[MC]

This is how I see it:

1. Dragon Ball Z no longer being as popular as it once was when ESF started.
2. What was originally a "open beta release every month" turned into a "when the team gets around to it".
3. Bleach and Naruto (among others).
4. Development progress updates that are few and far between.
5. Strict rules.
6. Forum member's personal lives.
7. Forum member's losing interest.
8. Newer games and modifications.
9. Moderators and administrators abusing their power.
10. Little exposure into the gaming and modification community.
11. Force Pit.
12. Dwindling popularity of Dragon Ball Z based modifications.
13. Strict moderating.
14. Dwindling popularity of Half-Life modifications as more and more teams move to other engines.
15. Lack of communication between the fanbase and the developers.
16. Only a handful of active members that still post.
17. AUP.

To elaborate on why I listed the AUP:

The length and detail of the AUP is enough to scare away potential and new members alike. There's no need to list everything single thing under the sun, nor is there no need to give a detailed explanation for each and every rule. Forum rules should be kept simple, brief and straight to the point. And I think it helps if forum rules are in the form of "forum rules" not "AUP. A locked sticky in each forum listed the rules would be enough.

Here's how I would rewrite the AUP:

Respect Guidelines
1) Keep flaming to a minimum.
2) Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
3) Keep criticism constructive.

No Pornography
No posting of links, pictures or videos of pornography.

No Nudity
No posting of links, pictures or videos of nudity.

No Warez, Cracks, Hacks and Torrents
No posting of links to warez, cracks, hacks and torrents.

No Ripping
No ripping of another's work unless given permission by the author.

No Stealing Credit
No stealing credit for another's work.

Signature and Avatar Guidelines
1) The maximum signature resolution allowed is 600x200.
2) The maximum signature file size allowed is 600k.
3) Signatures must be of either a jpg/jpeg or gif format.
4) The maximum number of signatures allowed at one time is three.

1) The maximum avatar resolution allowed is 100x100.
2) The maximum avatar size allowed is 30k.
3) Avatars must be of either a jpg/jpeg or gif format.

Signatures and avatars must adhere to the forum rules.

No Spamming
No spamming outside of designated spam threads.

Violating the Rules
Violating the rules will result in one of the following disciplinary actions depending on the severity and nature of the rule violation:

1) Warning
2) Temporary Ban (2 Weeks)
3) Permanent Ban

Three consecutive warnings will lead to a temporary ban. Three consecutive temporary bans will lead to a permanent ban.

It's not perfect, but I hope it shows the point I'm trying to make.

 

[sub]

This is how I see it:

1. Dragon Ball Z no longer being as popular as it once was when ESF started.
2. What was originally a "open beta release every month" turned into a "when the team gets around to it".
3. Bleach and Naruto (among others).
4. Development progress updates that are few and far between.
5. Strict rules.
6. Forum member's personal lives.
7. Forum member's losing interest.
8. Newer games and modifications.
9. Moderators and administrators abusing their power.
10. Little exposure into the gaming and modification community.
11. Force Pit.
12. Dwindling popularity of Dragon Ball Z based modifications.
13. Strict moderating.
14. Dwindling popularity of Half-Life modifications as more and more teams move to other engines.
15. Lack of communication between the fanbase and the developers.
16. Only a handful of active members that still post.
17. AUP.

To elaborate on why I listed the AUP:

The length and detail of the AUP is enough to scare away potential and new members alike. There's no need to list everything single thing under the sun, nor is there no need to give a detailed explanation for each and every rule. Forum rules should be kept simple, brief and straight to the point. And I think it helps if forum rules are in the form of "forum rules" not "AUP. A locked sticky in each forum listed the rules would be enough.

Here's how I would rewrite the AUP:


It's not perfect, but I hope it shows the point I'm trying to make.

MC for Mod, 2008

 

[Damaera]

You know, MC, that would actually work. I could see it working perfectly.

 

[Kaination]

funny thing.

after all these years I still don't know how to get to the aup. It's hard to find.

 

[Majin_You]

Simplifying the AUP wouldn't be all that bad an option, particularly for those members who don't have the luxury of possessing English as a primary language - a verbose AUP is likely very imposing for them, as well as users who want a quick rundown of the rules.

I still haven't, however, seen substantiation for the oft-used term "admin/moderator abuse". I understand that there will never be a scenario where everyone will be satisfied with the status quo, but I'd appreciate hefty allegations such as the one I mentioned to be backed up with evidence - I can't readily help fix anything if I don't know what you're trying to point out.

EDIT - @Kain: In the quick-bar at the top of the index, there's a green link that says "Forum Rules"; that's the AUP.

 

[sub]

funny thing.

after all these years I still don't know how to get to the aup. It's hard to find.

Yeah, I used to have no idea where it was either, but it's easy to find now.

 

[DiebytheSword]

While most of whatever Cuc says has some sort of self-serving spin on it (guess I had another rotten tomato afterall?)

The following comment has no self serving merit what so ever:

Thank you for backing up some of my statements.

 

[Eon]

Speaking of unmoderated communities, seeing Deverz reminded me of something I found out about a long time ago. Do you remember *edit* You can thank a super moderator and an ex-head moderator for both.

I beat you to revealing that sucka.

I totally bragged about doing that in another controversial thread somewhere. Me, Lee, Opty, and Kurt were making jokes and Opty made the awesome GIF.


But I'll be straight up on what I think this place has gone to, and the only constant that truly falls into place as fact was the fanbase of the actualy players of the game, which even though the forum had its own trolls who never games, dictated the traffic the site got. Back when 1.0 was new this place was always insanely active all day. after 1.1 the models/skins section was my only section to mod and there was alot of bull**** to sift through back then.

1.2 discouraged alot of the players, and the long wait from 1.2-1.3, with all the BS in between had the gaming community dwindling, and then last year when the forum was down for an entire summer is what drilled most of the sub-community. (forums, IRC). There were nazi mods and there was just alot of dumb crap in between, but all in all I think I've covered most of the actual reasons things seem like they're going the way they are.

And besides I still hung here like a champ.

I think it's the PHADHDBB forum or whatever smileys that are draining this place.



Oh and everyone who knows me will always remember me as the admins' attack dog.

 

[DiebytheSword]

You know what's funny.

4 years ago, the song was the same.

http://esforces.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38102&highlight=administration

Have fun on memory lane kids. I believe the flaming stars a page or two in, but the accusations don't change. There's just more of you that don't like us now for the same reasons people didn't like us then.

Also worth mentioning, my health wasn't in really bad shape back then, so I was probably a bit more patient with people than I am now, but not by much.