SSJ Ki Drain Values

[sub]

This thread is in response to Harsens post in this thread, specifically post 40.

SSJ is ridiculously unbalanced. The current problem is that upon transforming, you gain twice the speed, ki, PL, plus you get more attacks. Traveling twice the speed at half the ki cost removes the entire aspect of ki management from the game. I’m pretty sure that this is already being done, but make SSJ drain ki.

"SSJ does drain ki... You can tweak the speed and ki efficiency of all characters and their classes with cvars in the inteam. Ready asked for input, but noone bothered."

So the point of the thread is to determine what the ki drain values should be for 1.3.

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With that out of the way, I believe that the ki drain while transformed should be proportional to that of the normal form. For example, lets say ones swooping speed is 100 while in in normal form, and ones speed is double that while transformed, it should cost double the amount of ki to swoop while transformed since you're moving twice as fast.

Opinions. Too drastic?


Btw, if anyone knows what the cvars are to mess around with the values, post 'em here so we can try out different stuff.

 

[Zeonix]

It should start out being proportional, but as you achieve perfect trans for each form, that form should use less ki.

 

[Grega]

Im with Vox on thisone.

Allthough i was thinking of making it Stamina Drain instead of KI.

That way it would be more true to the show and with tweaking the stamina recharge and drain values a bit it could proove as an interesting combination.

I mean Ki you can recharge fast. But if you overuse Stamina it could be fatal.

This way you wouldnt need to worry about your KI so much but rather about how to use your stamina.

This means overusing turbo aswell as beams. The only problem is that i have no idea how melee will ende up looking along with stamina.

 

[VideoJinx]

Well, I'm not too certain about messing around with ssj values just yet.

But I believe my idea balances ssj pretty well.

8) Ascending to ssj is no longer done by pressing Z. To ascend you hold powerup + turbo for longer then 3 seconds spending MORE stamina to obtain ssj(the exact amount uncertain). This brings a new risk to going ssj. If you're able to go ssj( if you have enough stamina) but have barely enough stamina for it, you'll obtain ssj,

but you will have low stamina and a high risk of losing ssj easier. This gives the feel of needing to train or master ssj.

If stamina goes below 20% you lose ssj, and since stamina isn't "rechargable" like ki, the player won't be able to go ssj for a while.

Yet for players who can go ssj without the risk of losing stamina, I feel you're right when a balance needs to be added. My suggestion is to increase the ki burn so it feels exactly like being in normal form.

As for ssj beams, I believe they should only have a Stronger"DIRECT" impact. The splash damage should "NOT" increase, but should only grow larger in diameter

2 Reasons supporting this:
-SSJs need to use/burn more ki inorder to do the stronger attacks an ssj does.
-Secondly, experienced players will actually use ssj for fighting, and not seeing it as cheap.

Edit:

I also believe, the swooping TIME for an ssj should cut slightly shorter... SO that an SSJ in 1 swoop, covers the SAME distance as a Non-ssj SWOOPER. This will balance the swooping, and gives ssj a better feeling overall. This also makes players use of the SPEED of the ssj, and improves gameplay. SSJ2's swoop should be faster then ssj1 and non-ssjform, BUT ssj2's swoop-time should be cut short so that ssj 2 cover the same exact distance as a full non-ssj swoop.

This also applies to ssj3.

This would dramatically improve the feeling off ssj and all other transformations. Players would easily notice the change in swooping speed by the shorter time it takes to get from point a to point b. This also helps player determine how fast they need to turn inorder to control their swoop.

To summarize SSJ

- Beams are stronger from a direct impatc
- Beams have a larger splash damage radius. Splash damage doesn't increase
- SSJ and all other transformations fly the same distance in a single swoop, as the swoop of a NON-Transed swooper. The difference is, SSJ flies from point A to point B at a faster rate.
- The ki of an SSJ should be larger, BUT in balancing it, it should also have a higher ki burn. So that ssj FEELS EXACTLY like being non ssj. In order to do the stronger attacks, ssj SPENDS more ki then a non ssj. The ki of an ssj and the ki of a non-ssj SHOULD feel the same
- SSJ melee should feel slighitly stronger
- The Perfect Form of an SSJ form, a small amount of extra ki should be added on, increasing the ki pool

 

[DaRkOwNs]

jinx, you are no longer allowed to post your ideas in this thread. and i mean that.

I mean Ki you can recharge fast. But if you overuse Stamina it could be fatal.

you cant control stamina, so im assuming you mean that it cuts your stamina regeneration shorter? in which case its a good idea.

it could work out if done right, and it could give lower ssj forms a chance against the higher ups.

 

[sub]

Well, I'm not too certain about messing around with ssj values just yet.

But I believe my idea balances ssj pretty well.

8) Ascending to ssj is no longer done by pressing Z. To ascend you hold powerup + turbo for longer then 3 seconds spending MORE stamina to obtain ssj(the exact amount uncertain). This brings a new risk to going ssj. If you're able to go ssj( if you have enough stamina) but have barely enough stamina for it, you'll obtain ssj,

but you will have low stamina and a high risk of losing ssj easier. This gives the feel of needing to train or master ssj.

If stamina goes below 20% you lose ssj, and since stamina isn't "rechargable" like ki, the player won't be able to go ssj for a while.

Yet for players who can go ssj without the risk of losing stamina, I feel you're right when a balance needs to be added. My suggestion is to increase the ki burn so it feels exactly like being in normal form.

As for ssj beams, I believe they should only have a Stronger"DIRECT" impact. The splash damage should "NOT" increase, but should only grow larger in diameter

2 Reasons supporting this:
-SSJs need to use/burn more ki inorder to do the stronger attacks an ssj does.
-Secondly, experienced players will actually use ssj for fighting, and not seeing it as cheap.

Edit:

I also believe, the swooping TIME for an ssj should cut slightly shorter... SO that an SSJ in 1 swoop, covers the SAME distance as a Non-ssj SWOOPER. This will balance the swooping, and gives ssj a better feeling overall. This also makes players use of the SPEED of the ssj, and improves gameplay. SSJ2's swoop should be faster then ssj1 and non-ssjform, BUT ssj2's swoop-time should be cut short so that ssj 2 cover the same exact distance as a full non-ssj swoop.

This also applies to ssj3.

This would dramatically improve the feeling off ssj and all other transformations. Players would easily notice the change in swooping speed by the shorter time it takes to get from point a to point b. This also helps player determine how fast they need to turn inorder to control their swoop.

To summarize SSJ

- Beams are stronger from a direct impatc
- Beams have a larger splash damage radius. Splash damage doesn't increase
- SSJ and all other transformations fly the same distance in a single swoop, as the swoop of a NON-Transed swooper. The difference is, SSJ flies from point A to point B at a faster rate.
- The ki of an SSJ should be larger, BUT in balancing it, it should also have a higher ki burn. So that ssj FEELS EXACTLY like being non ssj. In order to do the stronger attacks, ssj SPENDS more ki then a non ssj. The ki of an ssj and the ki of a non-ssj SHOULD feel the same
- SSJ melee should feel slighitly stronger
- The Perfect Form of an SSJ form, a small amount of extra ki should be added on, increasing the ki pool

Cool, but that has nothing to do with the topic.

 

[Grega]

you cant control stamina, so im assuming you mean that it cuts your stamina regeneration shorter? in which case its a good idea.

Thats only half true. Right now its set so that you regain 5 stamina points / 1 second by not having turbo activated. When recharging the number is 10 points per second.

Its not a big difrence but its there. So if you have turbo activated you get 0 points per second.

This idea would drain stamina while turbo is on in SSJ forms and it would give less of it back while not in turbo.

But as said this is the general idea since i have no idea how melee will work on the system aswell as other things.