Should smoking in bars/pubs be forbidden?

[Tassadar]

Indeed there is absolutly NO WAY that smoking in the US is even close to 64%, and in Japan, 94%? Are you just making this up? Try looking for references and statistics AFTER the 1900s instead of before, AFTER people knew that smoking kills you.

 

[Vegeta's Briefs]

I happen to have a Japanese family, and I subscribe to Japanese magazines, and I've been to Japan myself. %64 of Americans over the age of 18 smoke. Just because you guys don't believe it, doesn't mean it's not true. Shockingly, Georgia is where most of those %64 live. Texas is next, followed by L.A. And when MSNBC stops being so left-wing slanted, then I'll start listening to it.

And in Japan, females smoke more than men, not less. In fact, they smoke so much, they have actually have more male models advertizing cigarettes than females, unlike in the US, where men smoke more.

As amusing as it is, it's true. That's how they get those "life expectencies". They round them all up together, including boat crashes and all that stuff. That's also how they decided smoking was "harmful".


%60 of all lung cancer patients smoked cigarettes, %2 smoke cigars. %99 breathed in our air, %94 ate white bread, and %96 used toilet papers (stats have changed since last year, amazingly).

How they decided lung cancer was caused by cigarettes was merely observation by the food and bleach industry. Place the blame elsewhere, and you'll still get the dough.

BTW, in America, they know smoking kills you, just like their ancestors knew the Earth was flat, and they just knew the WTC towers were invincible.

But in Japan, they know smoking doesn't kill you, just like they knew bombing Pearl Harbor would have an effect on the US, and they knew that making trades with America would make them richer.

BTW, you keep forgetting France. I doubt France would like that.

 

[Epedemic_Optikz]

no... smoking should not be banned up in pubs and bars man... thats the only place I can go to smoke a blunt in front of people I don't know... :]

 

[majin goketa]

Come on, smoking causes cancer. If you breath in the tar, nicotine and everything that is in ciggarettes you will get lung cancer from it, not from your diet or something else. Thats like saying the cause of most car accidents is evil cars because everyone involved in a car accident had a car with them at the time.

 

[Hitokiri]

rofl. Listen VB, people don't get emphysema, or a hole drilled in their neck so they can breath and be forced to speak through one of those robot machines just because they ate some unwholesome meals. Smoking caused that, whether it kills them or not (and often it does), it's obviously harmful.

You can't compare the findings of modern medical science in America to the ideas of Europeans SIX CENTURIES AGO. That's a ridiculous analogy. And it isn't like America has done everything wrong, and the Japanese have done everything right. That's pure ignorance.

Smoking substantially increases the risk of heart disease, including stroke, heart attack, vascular disease and aneurysm. Because nicotine is present in the body throughout the day, the heart is constantly stimulated to work faster. This increased demand on the heart combines with altered lipid metabolism to increase the likelihood of the development of atherosclerosis, a disease of the arteries which obstructs the flow of blood.

From an article I have:

"Scientists studying a tumor suppressor gene called p53 demonstrated a direct link between cigarettes and lung cancer. p53 is the cell’s error-detecting system, proofreading the DNA before cell division to make sure there is no damage. When it detects DNA damage, p53 halts cell division and stimulates DNA repair enzymes that fix the trouble. Mutations that inactivate p53 remove a key barrier to unrestricted cell division. p53 is inactivated in 70% of all lung cancers. A puzzling discovery was that the p53 mutations in cancer cells almost all occur at one of three "hot spots" within the p53 gene.

The key link that explains the "hot spots" and links lung cancer to cigarettes is a chemical called benzo (a) pyrene (BP), a potent mutagen [a gene-altering chemical] released into cigarette smoke from tars in the tobacco. The epithelial cells of the lung absorb BP from cigarette smoke and chemically alter it to a derivative form, benzo (a) pyrene diol epoxide (BPDE). BPDE binds directly to the tumor suppressor gene p53 and mutates it to an inactive form. The key evidence linking cigarette smoking and cancer, the "smoking gun," is that when the mutations of p53 caused by BPDE from cigarettes were examined, they were found to cluster at precisely the same three specific "hot spots" seen in lung cancers! The conclusion is inescapable: the mutations inducing lung cancer are caused by chemicals in cigarette smoke.

Faced with this new incontrovertible evidence, the tobaccco companies have abandoned their claim that cigarettes have not been shown to cause cancer."

I fail to see how that can be refuted.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Regardless, a bit off topic, I think smoking is disgusting, and I find nothing attractive about people who smoke. In fact my biggest turn off in women is smoking. Mmm, nothing more appealing that watching a gorgeous female breathing smoke out of her nose.

Also back on topic, maybe I am just a bit biased since I am allergic to ciggarette smoke, so thats why I think people can take it elsewhere.

 

[owa]

You are absolutely insane. I don't know WHERE you got your information on the percentages of Japanese smokers, bu I happen to be half-Japanese, and I've lived there for a number of years.

You think 64% of Americans smoke? I don't know which America you live in, or what magical source of information you seem to have, but it's just convieniently incorrect.

"Among the states showing an increase in the number of occasional smokers, Arizona went from 16.2 percent in 1996 to 28 percent in 2001; Delaware, 13.5 percent to 24 percent; Nevada, 10.8 percent to 22.8 percent; and Ohio, 9.6 percent to 20.8 percent. The District of Columbia had the highest percentage of smokers who said they only smoked occasionally, at 41.2 percent."

References:
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/898799.asp?cp1=1
A report by MSNBC, on findings from the CDC, Center for Disease Control.

In Japan, smoking % for females in 1994 was 14.8%, and in males, 59%.

http://www.kidon.com/smoke/percentages2.htm

I find your way of thinking, that people just happened to die 100 years ago from lifting heavy machinery, and the such, rather then just having a shorter life expectency due to malnutrition, ignorance of diversity in 'food groups,' and modern medicine, to be highly amusing.

I Love You, and you too Hitokiri.

----

Anyways, VB your information is way off, your making no sense SA already proved you wrong yet you show your ignorance by persisting your right even though its obvious your wrong.

Also Hito als made soem big claims that own all of what you said. Stop thinking you know it all when theres people who obviously no more [I'm not one of those people BTW as I just know a few things but atleast I don't lie...]

anyways, I read all your posts and I feel I was a bit Biased on my opinion too. I still feel smoking in puplic should be banned *BUT* not in bars/pubs.

 

[SailorAlea]

I happen to have a Japanese family, and I subscribe to Japanese magazines, and I've been to Japan myself. %64 of Americans over the age of 18 smoke. Just because you guys don't believe it, doesn't mean it's not true. Shockingly, Georgia is where most of those %64 live. Texas is next, followed by L.A. And when MSNBC stops being so left-wing slanted, then I'll start listening to it.

And in Japan, females smoke more than men, not less. In fact, they smoke so much, they have actually have more male models advertizing cigarettes than females, unlike in the US, where men smoke more.

As amusing as it is, it's true. That's how they get those "life expectencies". They round them all up together, including boat crashes and all that stuff. That's also how they decided smoking was "harmful".


%60 of all lung cancer patients smoked cigarettes, %2 smoke cigars. %99 breathed in our air, %94 ate white bread, and %96 used toilet papers (stats have changed since last year, amazingly).

How they decided lung cancer was caused by cigarettes was merely observation by the food and bleach industry. Place the blame elsewhere, and you'll still get the dough.

BTW, in America, they know smoking kills you, just like their ancestors knew the Earth was flat, and they just knew the WTC towers were invincible.

But in Japan, they know smoking doesn't kill you, just like they knew bombing Pearl Harbor would have an effect on the US, and they knew that making trades with America would make them richer.

BTW, you keep forgetting France. I doubt France would like that.

VB, you just state things out of a miraculous void of logic. I am appalled at your sheer ignorance and assumption, such as the hundreds and hundreds of medical and scientific studies, which you seem to think the "food industry" did, to displace the blame for Lung Cancer.

And by the way.. Your reference to America's ancestors believing the Earth is extremely flawed. It was the European nations which believed the world was flat, except for a plethora of very scientific people.

With the discovery of the new world, and Asia beyond that, they realized it wasn't flat.. So it wasn't really the American population which believed it was flat, was it? And I don't believe any American ever thought any building was impervious to terrorist attack.

The sheer amount of garbage which you spout off is incredible.

"%64 of Americans over the age of 18 smoke. Just because you guys don't believe it, doesn't mean it's not true. Shockingly, Georgia is where most of those %64 live."

Yes, everyone knows 64% of All Americans live in Georgia. And the population of Georgia determines national standards for the US.

According to numerous articles, Japanese women smoke far less frequently then men. Fox News, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, why do you think they say the same thing? Hmm.. Must be because they're so damned "left" wing. :laff:

"How they decided lung cancer was caused by cigarettes was merely observation by the food and bleach industry. Place the blame elsewhere, and you'll still get the dough."

THAT's the funniest statement I've EVER heard on this forum!

:laff: :laff: :laff: :laff: :laff: :laff:

 

[majin goketa]

LOL :laff: .
Normally I'd say leave the guy alone but the holes in his arguement are so large I'd call them gaping pits.
I mean, lung cancer caused by your diet???,BY YOUR DIET???????.
It might be a little bit more likely that lung cancer is caused by smoking. I know it sounds crazy but it's just this stupid idea I have.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

I'm going to address all of that in this paragraph:

Also, since you like percentages, %97 of all Japanese over the age 16 smoke 8 packs a day. %3 of all Japanese people die of lung cancer in a year.

What the ****? Uh... source?

Do you even have any idea how many cigarettes 8 packs is...?

Let's say 20 in a pack, ok? 20X8=160. 160 cigarettes a day.

How long does it take you to smoke a cigarette on average? Let's say you rush a little and it only takes you 2 minutes. 120 seconds is not very long. Let's pretend anyway.

2 minutes X 160 cigarettes = 320 minutes.

320 minutes / 60 (minute/hour) = 5.33 hours, or, 5 hours and 20 minutes.

5 hours and 20 minutes a day chain smoking cigarettes really quickly. 2 minutes each. Hmm... where do they find the time for work? I mean, what if you had to take an hour to go eat at a restaraunt that didn't allow smoking? Uh oh, you can't get your fix for the day.

 

[Vegeta's Briefs]

Medical and scientific? You think that makes it right? LOL!!! And you've got it backwards. The food industry is where the blame for the cigarettes come from.

Don't you know that Americans came from the European islands? The European people are America's ancestors, as are the Irish and Spanish. And if you're going to play that way, the original American population didn't even know there was world beyond the waters.

You're rather dumb, you know that? I never said that most of the world was Georgia. Read it, then comment.

Yeah. All but Fox, and they've never said that. In fact, they haven't commented on cigarettes at all. Nice try though.

"THAT's the funniest statement I've EVER heard on this forum!"

Many things you've said I've found hysterical.

You rely on scientists to tell you how people live, instead of watching people. Pfft...


"LOL .
Normally I'd say leave the guy alone but the holes in his arguement are so large I'd call them gaping pits.
I mean, lung cancer caused by your diet???,BY YOUR DIET???????.
It might be a little bit more likely that lung cancer is caused by smoking. I know it sounds crazy but it's just this stupid idea I have."

So you're saying that kerosene and bleach couldn't possibly cause cancers when eaten?

Okaayyy.....


"rofl. Listen VB, people don't get emphysema, or a hole drilled in their neck so they can breath and be forced to speak through one of those robot machines just because they ate some unwholesome meals. Smoking caused that, whether it kills them or not (and often it does), it's obviously harmful. "

So you agree that eating bleach and kerosene won't damage your health?

Smoking doesn't cause it, not unless it's something in how the lazy Americans take care of their tobacco, as I have stated before.

"You can't compare the findings of modern medical science in America to the ideas of Europeans SIX CENTURIES AGO. That's a ridiculous analogy. And it isn't like America has done everything wrong, and the Japanese have done everything right. That's pure ignorance."

If America was so smart now, it wouldn't be so dumb. Like, du'h.

"Smoking substantially increases the risk of heart disease, including stroke, heart attack, vascular disease and aneurysm. Because nicotine is present in the body throughout the day, the heart is constantly stimulated to work faster. This increased demand on the heart combines with altered lipid metabolism to increase the likelihood of the development of atherosclerosis, a disease of the arteries which obstructs the flow of blood."

Says who? The scientists? Sure. They can be bribed quite easily. I mean, all I need is one million and one "expert" scientist, and I could have the world believing that natural herbs cause cancer.

"I fail to see how that can be refuted."

Like this: read above post, get off your high cloud and admit it. If smoking caused lung cancer, than France and Japan would be in trouble. Get over it.

What the ****? Uh... source?

Do you even have any idea how many cigarettes 8 packs is...?

Let's say 20 in a pack, ok? 20X8=160. 160 cigarettes a day.

How long does it take you to smoke a cigarette on average? Let's say you rush a little and it only takes you 2 minutes. 120 seconds is not very long. Let's pretend anyway.

2 minutes X 160 cigarettes = 320 minutes.

320 minutes / 60 (minute/hour) = 5.33 hours, or, 5 hours and 20 minutes.

5 hours and 20 minutes a day chain smoking cigarettes really quickly. 2 minutes each. Hmm... where do they find the time for work? I mean, what if you had to take an hour to go eat at a restaraunt that didn't allow smoking? Uh oh, you can't get your fix for the day.

Japan doesn't have the same rules as we do. They can smoke while working.


"Anyways, VB your information is way off, your making no sense SA already proved you wrong yet you show your ignorance by persisting your right even though its obvious your wrong."

My information? Straight from Japan? Is Ignorant?

Okaay... no further comment is needed on this.

"Also Hito als made soem big claims that own all of what you said. Stop thinking you know it all when theres people who obviously no more [I'm not one of those people BTW as I just know a few things but atleast I don't lie...]"

Lol. I could say the same thing about Alea and Hito. And I don't lie either, I'm quite the opposite, in fact.

 

[SailorAlea]

Medical and scientific? You think that makes it right? LOL!!! And you've got it backwards. The food industry is where the blame for the cigarettes come from.

Don't you know that Americans came from the European islands? The European people are America's ancestors, as are the Irish and Spanish. And if you're going to play that way, the original American population didn't even know there was world beyond the waters.

You're rather dumb, you know that? I never said that most of the world was Georgia. Read it, then comment.

Yeah. All but Fox, and they've never said that. In fact, they haven't commented on cigarettes at all. Nice try though.

"THAT's the funniest statement I've EVER heard on this forum!"

Many things you've said I've found hysterical.

You rely on scientists to tell you how people live, instead of watching people. Pfft...


"LOL .
Normally I'd say leave the guy alone but the holes in his arguement are so large I'd call them gaping pits.
I mean, lung cancer caused by your diet???,BY YOUR DIET???????.
It might be a little bit more likely that lung cancer is caused by smoking. I know it sounds crazy but it's just this stupid idea I have."

So you're saying that kerosene and bleach couldn't possibly cause cancers when eaten?

Okaayyy.....

You have proven far more damaging to your own arguments then I could have, and you can see that it is apparent from the reactions of everybody to your responses.

The "people responsible" for the whole anti-tobacco movement, are tiny, insignificant little assosciations such as the Food and Drug Administration, Center for Disease Control, and the Surgeon General, not the makers of WONDER Bread.

My further response is no longer necessary, unless you choose to come up with some kind of "rebuttal."

 

[Vegeta's Briefs]

"You have proven far more damaging to your own arguments then I could have, and you can see that it is apparent from the reactions of everybody to your responses."

ROFL. If you can't reply, don't try and make it look big. Also, a majority of people can be wrong, especially those that have no experience.

"The "people responsible" for the whole anti-tobacco movement, are tiny, insignificant little assosciations such as the Food and Drug Administration, Center for Disease Control, and the Surgeon General, not the makers of WONDER Bread."

And how are those not related to food? Considering it was all that stuff that made artificial foods.

"My further response is no longer necessary."

You're right. I've already proven you wrong too many times.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

1.) Medical and scientific? You think that makes it right? LOL!!!

2.) You're rather dumb, you know that? I never said that most of the world was Georgia. Read it, then comment.

3.) You rely on scientists to tell you how people live, instead of watching people. Pfft...

4.) So you're saying that kerosene and bleach couldn't possibly cause cancers when eaten?
Okaayyy.....

:Looks up and raises hands: "Why? Lord? If you are there, answer me... why?"

Alright, where to begin.



1 and 3. Let's put them together.

Are you insane? You do realize that *science* designed modern day cigarettes, right? It also built our cars, sent a shuttle into space, delivers electricity to your light bulbs, has cured a countless number of diseases, allows you to communicate with other people from across the world on this forum, keeps the water safe to drink, and that scientific studdies are WHERE WE GET OUR PERCENTAGES FROM? You gave us some really ****ed up percentages earlier. The ONLY way you could have come up with those numbers is from SOME kind of report. Oh wait, that's right... you made them up.. because they made absolutely no sense whatsoever, period. If you *didn't* make them up, then you used a SCIENTIFIC report to give us those numbers. If we don't trust science, we don't trust anything you've said either. So science tells you that bleach and kerosene cause cancer. We can believe THAT and not believe the rest of what it's proven about the chemicals in cigarettes? Get real.

2.) She never said "the world." You said that "most of those 64% live in Georgia." You screwed up when you posted, she countered you appropriately. Reread what you write too while you're at it.

4.) Here you go with the science bit I mentioned earlier. So Science is only right when it will help your argument but it can't be correct when it builds buildings or cars or planes, or produces the fuel you run those things with or sends the picture to your TV or sends in the studdies that you use to get your informatoin from. Oh wait, the last part is the only part that can be accurate because you have to be correct, right?



Please.

I'm with Sailor Alea. I'm withdrawing from this debate because you are too far out of touch with reality to come anywhere near touching on the farthest semblence from the truth. Have fun talking crazy, I just hope people look at the facts before they read the fiction.

 

[fryd4good]

You're rather dumb, you know that?

You probably shouldn't waste your time making erroneous remarks like that at some random spot in the middle of your posts. Not only does it degrade the person it's aimed at on some sort of a first-grade level, it degrades you even further. The statement "You're dumb" contains all the intellectual prowess of a five year old. The fact that it's all grammatically correct and contains a word of TWO whole syllables added to it only proves that although you are not five, you can lower yourself to that level.

 

[Hitokiri]

I think you've lost your marbles woman. I believe in science. How the hell is that bad; I've seen science proven in my own eyes, these are professional studies made to try to warn people, not made to deceive people into eating a Whopper. Medical and DNA studies are not some kind of "joke." I'm afraid I can believe it without looking under the microscope myself. I repeat, science and the intellectual pursuit of the cause behind things is not a massive conspiracy to try and make people eat cancerous cheeseburgers. Scientists today study things intricately, and for the most part are correct. This isn't just heresay and conjecture. Can science be wrong? Sure. However the proof was so undeniable that even the tobacco companies were forced to say "Fine, it kills." and I'm sure they fought HARD to disprove that.

The study of lung cancer and it's causes is part of the movement to PREVENT IT. How EVIL do you think people are. The scientists behind it are FAR AND WIDE. This is not ONE GUY.

I find it amusing that the resident super-christian only believes in what she sees.

Btw your percentages are completely wrong. Slightly over half of japanese men smoke, while roughly 15% of women smoke. I actually did some digging for this, you can check Time mag as well as virtually any other source on the internet, these numbers are recurring, and while the net is not the world's most reliable source I will believe things if they come up on professional sites over and over.

It's equally amusing that you insult the validity of science, and yet science is what determines whether kerosene and bleach is a cancerous mutagen or not.

Thanks though, this was quite a good laugh, and I hope the stampede behind me isn't too vicious.

 

[majin goketa]

So you're saying that kerosene and bleach couldn't possibly cause cancers when eaten?

Okaayyy.....

So you're saying kerosene and bleach couldn't possibly cause cancer when smoked?

Okaayyy....

I actually thought we were being a bit unfair but when I read your later posts, I thought "WTF?"

What are you talking about?, the stuff you're saying doesn't make any sense. You could of just said "funky hippopotamus" and your arguement would have gained more persuasive power.

You need to find your logic and fast. I'm not replying again because, well I don't think I could take the sheer intellectual power emenating from your posts.
(Now thats sarcasam)

 

[Hitokiri]

And you claim smoking doesn't cause those lesser diseases? Holy hell.

The most common cause of emphysema is smoking. Long-term exposure to smoke causes destruction of the alveoli. The ability of the lungs to provide oxygen to the body decreases. As a result, the person finds it increasingly difficult to breathe and to exercise without discomfort.

I'm sorry VB. That's just how your body works. Nobody was paid off to make the discovery that the alveoli are affected by smoke and that their destruction leads to emphysema. Scientific discoveries are made to enlighten people, not sell things.

You also have not proven Alea wrong -=anywhere.=- Every single one of your statistics was incorrect (97%? 8 FREAKING PACKS? What plant are YOU smoking?)

 

[SailorAlea]

I find it supremely amusing that you said,
"You're right. I've already proven you wrong too many times."

What exactly did you prove me wrong about?
You're the one insisting that..

"The "people responsible" for the whole anti-tobacco movement, are tiny, insignificant little assosciations such as the Food and Drug Administration, Center for Disease Control, and the Surgeon General, not the makers of WONDER Bread."

And how are those not related to food? Considering it was all that stuff that made artificial foods."

Yes.. the Center for Disease Control, the FDA, and the Surgeon General, "made Artificial Foods."

As for the smoking issues, I've already shown you articles from MSNBC and the Center for Disease Control, which you seem to think are the conspiracy puppets of Wonder Bread Incorporated.

Where along these lines did you ever prove me wrong?

By the way.. Aliens ARE OUT THERE! THEY'RE WATCHING YOU!
THE END IS NIGH! THE END IS NIGH!

P.S.: The Aliens are also being controlled by Wonder Bread, and they're using bleach lasers to give Americans cancer, and to encourage addictive behavior.

 

[fryd4good]

By the way.. Aliens ARE OUT THERE! THEY'RE WATCHING YOU!
THE END IS NIGH! THE END IS NIGH!

P.S.: The Aliens are also being controlled by Wonder Bread, and they're using bleach lasers to give Americans cancer, and to encourage addictive behavior.

I applaud that fine literary masterpiece. I couldn't have come up with a more sarcastic, far fetched or bizarre piece of fiction myself (which is saying a lot).