Scientists Make Human Embryo Clones

[Dzamija]

I should stop eating, because eating is murder too.

Technically, it isn't. Unless you eat living animals

Otherwise, someone else does the murder for you.


EDIT: Whoa, I was just reading through J-Dude's post, when I was reading through 'The cost, in this case, which is a human life.', I was listening to Black Sabbath and Ozzy said "The unborn child that never was conceived."

lawl

 

[Avenger]

So the murder of other living things is invalid? I mean, it's still murder to support an expensive habit - one I like to call "life".

 

[Zeonix]

Murder is really just killing someone of your species with that intent in mind.

 

[Eon]

Yea, it's not murder when it's a cloned bubble of cells ready to be harvested, it's not even SENTIENT at this point.

It's so harmless, you can compare it as being as much murder as a goddamned condom is.

 

[Zeonix]

I'm pretty sure that's considered murder by certain members of our society, which is why they teach about abstinence, rather than safe sex.

 

[Chakra-X]

I'm pretty sure that's considered murder by certain members of our society, which is why they teach about abstinence, rather than safe sex.

The same can be said for masturbation.

I wonder what the policy on wet dreams is?

 

[Zeonix]

Genocide. Millions of humans killed as a result of a single dream.

 

[-Origin]

Crap, then I've tosses universes in my pants while napping. I'm a ****ing murderer.

 

[Rocky]

Throwing a newborn into a furnace for heat is taking away life.

Chakra wins the thread.

 

[MC]

Here's something I found on Wikipedia that gives different view points over the use of stem cells:

Utilitarianism

The benefits of stem cell research outweigh the cost in terms of embryonic "life"

• Embryonic stem cells have the capacity to grow indefinitely in a laboratory environment and can differentiate into almost all types of bodily tissue. This makes embryonic stem cells an attractive prospect for cellular therapies to treat a wide range of diseases.
  
• The social, economic and personal costs of the diseases that embryonic stem cells have the potential to treat are far greater than the costs associated with the destruction of embryos.

Human potential and humanity

The value of an embryo should not be placed on par with the value of a child or adult

• Embryos, while of value, are not equivalent to human life while they are still incapable of existing outside the womb (i.e. they only have the potential for life).
  
• Approximately 18% of zygotes do not implant after conception. Thus far more embryos are lost due to chance than are proposed to be used for embryonic stem cell research or treatments.
  
• Blastocysts are a cluster of human cells that have not differentiated into distinct organ tissue; making cells of the inner cell mass no more "human" than a skin cell.
  
• Some parties contend that embryos are not humans, believing that the life of Homo sapiens only begins when the heartbeat develops, which is during the 5th week of pregnancy, or when the brain begins developing activity, which has been detected at 54 days after conception.

Consequentialism

The ends (i.e. new treatments and cures) justify the means (i.e. the destruction of embryos)

This can be seen as a more extreme view of the utilitarianism argument.

Efficiency

If an embryo is going to be destroyed anyway, isn't it more efficient to make practical use of it?

• In vitro fertilization (IVF) generates large numbers of unused embryos (e.g. 70,000 in Australia alone). Many of these thousands of IVF embryos are slated for destruction. Using them for scientific research utilizes a resource that would otherwise be wasted.
  
• While the destruction of human embryos is required to establish a stem cell line, no new embryos have to be destroyed to work with existing stem cell lines. It would be wasteful not to continue to make use of these cell lines as a resource.
  
• Abortions are legal in many countries and jurisdictions. A logical argument follows that if these embryos are being destroyed anyway, why not use them for stem cell research or treatments?

Superiority

Embryonic stem cells can be considered far more useful therapeutically than adult stem cells

This is usually presented as a counter-argument to using adult stem cells as an alternative that doesn't involve embryonic destruction.

• Embryonic stem cells make up a significant proportion of a developing embryo, while adult stem cells exist as minor populations within a mature individual (e.g. in every 10,000 cells of the bone marrow, only 10 will be usable stem cells). Thus, embryonic stem cells are likely to be easier to isolate and grow ex vivo than adult stem cells.
  
• Embryonic stem cells divide more rapidly than adult stem cells, potentially making it easier to generate large numbers of cells for therapeutic means. In contrast, adult stem cell might not divide fast enough to offer immediate treatment.
  
• Embryonic stem cells have greater plasticity, allowing them to treat a wider range of diseases.
  
• Adult stem cells from the patient's own body might not be effective in treatment of genetic disorders. Allogeneic embryonic stem cell transplantation (i.e. from a healthy donor) may be more practical in these cases than gene therapy of a patient's own cell.
  
• DNA abnormalities found in adult stem cells that are caused by toxins and sunlight may make them poorly suited for treatment.
  
• Embryonic stem cells have been shown to be effective in treating heart damage in mice.

Beginning of life

• Clones can be produced without fertilization taking place, and the clones are alive.
  
• Before the primitive streak is formed when the embryo attaches to the uterus at approximately 14 days after fertilization, a single fertilized egg can split in two to form identical twins. Also, rarely, two separately fertilized eggs can, instead of resulting in fraternal twins, fuse together and develop into a single human individual (a tetragametic chimera).
  
• Therefore before the primitive streak is formed, an individual human life does not exist at fertilization, as it can go on to split into two separate individuals. Therefore, an individual human life begins when the primitive streak is formed — beyond which the cell group cannot split to make twins — and not before. Therefore the blastocysts destroyed for embryonic stem cells do not have human life, and it is ethical to use them.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell_controversy

 

[kam!]

Genocide. Millions of humans killed as a result of a single dream.

And touching yourself is even worse.

_________

3-5 days old embryo

It's just a bunch of omnipotent cells, it's alive, but all cells are alive.


And if they create the embryo by nuclear transfer (cloning) it's even less human.
By this method they just "acticate" the whole DNA of a cell, by transfering it into a nuclear-free egg cell.

And from 1 embryo you can cultivate an indefinite amount of stem cells.

 

[Almighty_Gir]

this one is aimed at the "potential" argument:

every embryo has the potential for life, it could turn out to be the next einstein, or it could be the next person who goes and shoots up a school.

all that's happening here, is that someone is taking away the possibility for both, and giving someone else the certainty, that they will have a good life. i'm 90% sure, that the organs grown from things like this, wouldn't end up inside a murderer, and so, it's being done in an effort to improve the life of someone who's already proved to be a good person, but never had the chance to show it.

 

[J-Dude]

this one is aimed at the "potential" argument:

every embryo has the potential for life, it could turn out to be the next einstein, or it could be the next person who goes and shoots up a school.

all that's happening here, is that someone is taking away the possibility for both, and giving someone else the certainty, that they will have a good life. i'm 90% sure, that the organs grown from things like this, wouldn't end up inside a murderer, and so, it's being done in an effort to improve the life of someone who's already proved to be a good person, but never had the chance to show it.

You would judge a damn FETUS for things it doesn't even comprehend yet?

My feelings on this matter are not so much religious, since the Bible doesn't mention things like embryos or other such things. I just don't like the idea of suddenly deeming a developing human being a human. I never liked the notion that a fetus has no rights until it's born. That's the same legal naivety that tells us that we suddenly become adults the day we turn 18. And in the same way, I don't like panels of scientists "deciding" when a developing human is actually considered "human". I don't like this kind of uncertainty, so I play it safe. A sperm is not a human; an ova is not a human; but a fertilized ova will become a human if left to it's devices, so I'll call it right there as I see it. It just feels right to me.

 

[Zeonix]

EMBRYO =/= FETUS

It isn't a fetus until the second trimester.

 

[Almighty_Gir]

a fertilized ovum MAY become a human, but that's beside the point.

if a man and a woman have sex, and a child is concieved that way, then leave it very much alone.

if an embryo is brought into existance in a lab, where it would have never otherwise been created, and will ultimately be destroyed before it can reach a stage of self awareness, then i don't see the problem.

 

[Synth]

It's clear that hellrider and him are working with the evil Chinese fetus army of satellite hackers, that are also shrinking and expanding our Earth at will.

THIS IS MADNESS!

 

[J-Dude]

THIS IS MADNESS!

Madness...?

 

[Hibiki]

Madness...?

Sparta? No..

 

[OwenWaters]

I have seen this news on many sites. Scientists have made person’s embryonic clone by using their skin cells DNA. They also claim that in future it could be a source of stem cells. Today technology is advancing rapidly that generates highly advanced medical device to make these things possible. Human embryos are generally distinct as human organisms produced by the fertilization form gametes or diploid cells. There are various researches going on for human embryo that will become more effective in near future.

 

[Deverz]

how hard is it to not post in 7 year old threads