Roshi's Sock Drawer, aka, the over 18 years old club. Lets talk.

[DiebytheSword]

Alright. Here's the deal, we've talked with the host, and we have two hard fast no-no's that cannot be posted on Gamer's Desire. Drug talk and outright porn (naked solo counts) can't be posted regardless of the age of the group viewing it.

So what I need from those who want this to happen, is two things:

1) How can age be verified from a person on the internet.

2) What do you actually want to do with this section that can't currently be done in off topic?

The problem is, we dont' see a reason for it other than porn or talking about drugs, both are things you can't do anyway. Again, I'm fighting for a trial run of this to show that it isn't going to do what you think its going to do, but I am willing to give it that chance.

Discuss, we are seriously engaging you on this issue.

 

[Damaera]

I know this isn't what you're looking for, but I'm going to copy the first paragraph of my post in the other thread and put it in here.

I'm pretty sure if a thread discussing a book about how to be a pedophile is allowed, then an 18+ section isn't necessary. I would imagine pretty much anything that would be discussed there has already been discussed in the Off-Topic section, so I'm no sure why you guys are making the senior staff go through the trouble over something that could be done right now in here. The leniency would be the same, because let's face it, someone hasn't been warned for going overboard with a comment or anything in a while. The same thing could be said about a thread being closed (excluding this drug issue).

 

[Sicron]

While I understand that right now we do not need an 18+ section, it may be useful for the future. When ESF gets more active again, more young children will join the community. Regardless of them joining, some of us will still want to talk about more mature topics. Topics like religion, war, pedophiles et cetera. However, these topics are not necessarily 18+, thus I don't think we need an 18+ section, but rather an Mature discussion section. I would see this working if mods and admins, or selected people, would be allowed to invite mature people in this section. Mature people would be allowed to have proper discussions there, without young, happy, fanboys barging in and then start trolling and flaming. Start trolling in that section, and you'll be thrown out.

A Force Pit section for mature discussions if you will.

 

[DiebytheSword]

I know this isn't what you're looking for, but I'm going to copy the first paragraph of my post in the other thread and put it in here.

I'm pretty sure if a thread discussing a book about how to be a pedophile is allowed, then an 18+ section isn't necessary. I would imagine pretty much anything that would be discussed there has already been discussed in the Off-Topic section, so I'm no sure why you guys are making the senior staff go through the trouble over something that could be done right now in here. The leniency would be the same, because let's face it, someone hasn't been warned for going overboard with a comment or anything in a while. The same thing could be said about a thread being closed (excluding this drug issue).

Its not really trouble, the communtiy has asked repeatedly, and we have been told in no uncertain terms that we do not always listen. So you are getting your chance to argue for this, and perhaps have a trial run. This discussion here will seal the deal one way or another, so sell us this vision. Tell us why we need it.

 

[Damaera]

I do agree that the section will be useful in the future (especially come release), but right now I don't see the point of having the seniors go through the trouble of creating the section unless they decide to have the mods start being more tight and less lenient.

For the future of the section when the forum gets more popular, Sicron brings up a good point, especially seeing as how there's no absolute way of proving that you're 18 or older. If we get more children in the forum, then a mature forum will definitely be necessary if people will want to have a serious discussion. I hate to bring it up, but take a look at the ZEQ2 Lite forums. There are children everywhere and you can't have a serious discussion without the thread being derailed in an extremely immature fashion.

---------- Double Post below was added at 12:20 PM has been merged with this post created 12:14 PM at ----------

Its not really trouble, the communtiy has asked repeatedly, and we have been told in no uncertain terms that we do not always listen. So you are getting your chance to argue for this, and perhaps have a trial run. This discussion here will seal the deal one way or another, so sell us this vision. Tell us why we need it.

I retract my original comment, then. I just don't think right now is the time to have an 18+ section, so my only recommendation is getting the okay and agreement from the other seniors and either creating the section and hiding it until the time comes, or creating the section when the forums start to become more active. As I said in my earlier post, a lot of things that would be discussed in the section is allowed now in the Off-Topic section, and I would imagine that once the forums get more active the staff will progressively be less lenient, which would be the perfect time to put the 18+ section in place.

 

[Brosiris]

We don't need it. It's the Off-Topic forum with a different name.

 

[Spunky]

You could take a picture or scan the DOB on your driver's license, and write your username on a piece of paper in front of it. You could argue Photoshop, but really, I don't think anyone would go to the trouble to make a believable fake.

It'll be about as useful as the Force Pit is at this point. A wasteland. If you're lucky, you'll see a tumbleweed in the shape of Trunks' hair drift by. But when something is posted, it's always better than if nothing were posted. The point is that it's there, and there's no harm in that.

 

[DiebytheSword]

Not being a harm is not a need.

 

[Deathshot]

I guess send in an Application to an Admin.

Username:
Age:
Photo ID:

There you go.



I mean everyone has a PhotoID at 18 atleast.

 

[Sicron]

But like I said. We discuss no 18+ matters, so why should it be 18+? The forum section would be used to discuss mature discussions. Why go through all the trouble to verify someones age, when this forums could easily be available for people with mature behavior, whether they are 16 or 18.

Solves all your problems right there.

Edit: And mind you, photo's are easily manipulated, so anyone could easily get in. Maturity is not easily manipulated, and immature people would easily be thrown out.

 

[Deathshot]

And that is where if anyone acts like a child they lose their rights to the 18+ Section. I guess give them the 3 Strike Method. If we see flaming towards each other then its a strike per message. Then again the flaming problem does apply everywhere but here I guess it would be an even bigger offense.


With this section I would actually like to see a more lenients towards some of the threads that have been closed in the past could days. I mean I understand the closing of threads dealing with sex, drugs, and all of the other things around that. I mean I can understand you have to go based on what the host says. ( Btw who does host this? FileFront? )

 

[DiebytheSword]

Our hosting is provided by Gamer's Desire, I'm not entirely sure who their hosting is provided through, or if they are in fact hosting from their own servers.

So lets say this is a mature discussion group, and not neccesarily a group of 18 and up only, this would keep some rigid rules in place, but allow mature subject matter like religion and war when the forum gets busy again. Is this the general concensus?

 

[Deathshot]

I mean, I personally like to talk about Historical Wars and Possibly Wars to sadly come. And Religious threads are nice as well as long as people don't start Bashing other peoples religions/nations, for stuff like that. And by bashing I don't mean them simply picking out the flaws in a nations defense and all but just simpling going along by saying " Oh yea America sucks lawlz " and stuff like that. I would like to have more stuff like that. I just wouldn't want to hurt your guy's hosting capabilities with this, I think a lot of people around here do like to state topics about that.

 

[Rocky]

I said this in the other thread, and a couple have already said it here. What's the need for an 18+ board? Everything we'd discuss there, is already discussed here, without the logistics of having to prove you're old enough to discuss there. Any and all web-based methods to prove your age will be ineffective, and scanning/mailing in a photo ID is a bit extreme and easily faked (not to mention has to be internationally viable, you'd have to recognise photo ID's from around the world, not to mention any kid could take his Dads ID and post that).

People also talk that when the forum becomes busy again it might be useful, but realistically, how much busier are you anticipating? The 1.3 release may see a host of people come back for a short stint, but I honestly don't see it bringing the ESF community back to what it was 5-6 years ago.

The admin team here is for the most part, pretty damn relaxed from what it was when I first joined and we've had a lot of topics and discussions lately that wouldn't have flown back then. The only reason I can see an 18+ board being useful is if the team want to clean up these "controversial" threads and force them all into one place, but I'm not sure that's worth the overhead to prove you're old enough to post there.

I think overall the time and effort is better spent managing the same discussion in off topic and only ever stepping in if things get too heated, and stepping in doesn't mean close the thread and tell everyone to **** off, but rather mediating and making sure both sides of a discussion keep their cool and maintain civility. Most of which happens now anyway.

 

[Prozac]

I'd like to thank the admins for submitting this for our approval. It's always nice to give us the feeling that our opinion on a matter matters.
But lets just ask this basic question. Do we need a specific board?
Yes, arguments have gotten out of control in the past, but that's your job to handle, and in most situations, you guys do just fine. What we currently have works for me personally, I don't feel restricted by the forum rules (The host rules is another story) but personally I am happy with what I got.

 

[Deathshot]

I agree. I must thank the Admin for taking time to actually submit this. It does show that you care about what the community wants. Thanks guys.

 

[DiebytheSword]

Well, like I said, I don't think we need it, and I think it will prove to be a problem logistically and ultimately not be what was expected of it by the people who want it. I want to put this puppy to bed. So don't thank me too much, I expect it to fail spectacularly. At the same time, I think this forum should have some say from the people so long as we don't deviate from what we are: a fanbase for a goldsrc mod fasioned after a kid's television show.

 

[Majin_You]

For what it's worth, I'll re-post what I said in the private discussion that the senior staff had on the matter.

I think I share Sky's confusion. There is an all-encompassing ban on the discussion of illicit substances (which includes marijuana - the topic that spurred this whole suggestion into motion), so adding a private section will not benefit people looking to avoid that block.

Similarly, I don't get the impression that we'd end up allowing unmitigated posting of adult content (in the form of pornographic imagery). At best, I assume we'd allow the posting of more suggestive suggestive pictures not unlike what ends up in the Force Pit.

Political, religious, and other hot-button discussions are already occurring in General Chat, so there'd be little gain for our debaters in having an 18+ section.

I doubt we'd allow people to overlook the fact that we expect them to show some measure of respect toward each other (ie: rampant flaming would still be forbidden), and I doubt complete spam would be tolerated, either, so the more "zany" part of our community would stand to gain little, as well.

Aside from allowing more gruff language and racy images and statements to be thrown around, would there be any actual, significant difference between General Chat and this proposed 18+ section?

As for the suggestion of making it a "mature persons only" section, the only point I dislike in that suggestion (that is, in addition to what I've already pointed out in my quote) is that "maturity" is not a metric. It'd be judged on an entirely subjective, case-by-case basis which, at the outset, might not seem too bad, but, after some time, will become an absolutely nightmare to balance and/or carry out in a manner that is truly fair.

I honestly believe that all the information we'd garner from a "trial version" of this section is already right in front of us, in the form of this very section, General Chat.

If, when the community's activity reaches a boom, immature people are clogging up legitimate discussions with nonsense, disrespect, or some other spammy or non-constructive garble, we can deal with it, then. We've, certainly, had it before.