Replaying esf after a huge break

[Renyori]

I'm a frequent player on European servers and I ping about 200, anyway.. the current rules that europeans play by are the ones Kai created, which is currently: 3 hits on the ground (of any kind), infinite ceiling hits as long as its diagonal hits, no beams; thats their "duel" rules.

The current American duel rules are only 1 ground hit permitted, so the only way you can obtain a 3 hit is if 2 of them were in the air and you landed the 1 ground hit, ki blasts, and generic beams are allowed.

 

[LionHeart]

You act like there are 20 different servers that pros frequent. In case you actually believe that, there aren't.

Why not? You can't declare yourself the best in the world if you're only fighting people from one hemisphere.

I never said anything about servers that only pro's frequent, I'm talking about your average esf server, where people play to have fun not to be declared "best in the world" plus that can't be acurate since there might be a guy who only plays LAN that's better.

I'm a frequent player on European servers and I ping about 200, anyway.. the current rules that europeans play by are the ones Kai created, which is currently: 3 hits on the ground (of any kind), infinite ceiling hits as long as its diagonal hits, no beams; that's their "duel" rules.

The current American duel rules are only 1 ground hit permitted, so the only way you can obtain a 3 hit is if 2 of them were in the air and you landed the 1 ground hit, ki blasts, and generic beams are allowed.

You're talking about 2-3 pro servers here. You can't generalize everything based on that. I'm talking about all of the servers.

 

[sub]

There were never many ESF servers. People generally play on whatever server is populated. If you're referring to listen servers, they don't count.

 

[Renyori]

You're talking about 2-3 pro servers here. You can't generalize everything based on that. I'm talking about all of the servers.

Thats the typical duel rules in Europe, even if you go into a public server, you'll still find "pros" triple ground hitting.

 

[Zeonix]

No, it isn't stereotypical. It's what I've experienced in all but one European server frequented by pros.

Read.

I don't go to random guy's server to fight 4 bots and a guy who can barely use a mouse. I go to servers where people know how to play the game and aren't complete pushovers. That said, "noobs" use the rules the pros enforce because they think that's how you're supposed to play.

 

[Viper]

That said, "noobs" use the rules the pros enforce because they think that's how you're supposed to play.

Amen to that.
The fact is that when i first started playing it on the internet, i and the friends that picked up ESF learned to fight by the 1 hit rule. The for my surprise on other servers ppl were playing like this: 3 hitting+ ki blast= instagib

 

[SSJ4boneVegeta]

You want the team to institute arbitrary rules that would condone a specific way to play the game. If every single person agreed on a particular way to play the game, then what you're suggesting would make sense, but that obviously isn't the case. European server owners want the game to be played one way, American server owners want the game to be played another way.

Not quite. I am suggesting that there be options that can be checked off or given values to aid with In-House rules. This makes gameplay very flexible and easy to enforce for American, European and any hosts. Rules are also very clear in server info before joining any server. For example some people hate teleporting, therefore disabling teleporting can be an option. Likewise the # of consecutive melee hits (within a certain amount of time) could be an option.

 

[Zeonix]

Not quite. I am suggesting that there be options that can be checked off or given values to aid with In-House rules. This makes gameplay very flexible and easy to enforce for American, European and any hosts. Rules are also very clear in server info before joining any server. For example some people hate teleporting, therefore disabling teleporting can be an option. Likewise the # of consecutive melee hits (within a certain amount of time) could be an option.

I refuse to support any motion that would cripple the game just because a few people are unable to adapt. The 3 hits on the ground/2 in the air, 1 on the ground debate is more of a moral dilemma than anything else. It isn't something that should be decided on by the team. It isn't their place to do so. If you want to remove the worst of 1.2's gameplay exploits, use the 1.1 cvar. It's already in the game. Disabling teleport isn't one of the options as far as I know, nor should it ever be.

 

[vahn9]

i refuse to go with those rules to i think there stupid hit all you want who cares

 

[DaRkOwNs]

pretending that made sense, im sure you would love to use every cheap way possible to win.

use periods.

the game isnt about winning, its about melee.

 

[sub]

i refuse to go with those rules to i think there stupid hit all you want who cares

I care if someone uses the roll glitch. It's unfair for the person getting rolled.

The rules were made up to ensure a fair game.

 

[Odin]

I don't see the diffrence between someone rolling you and 2 hit air, 1 hit ground, then gen beam/ki blob spamming you until you die. The end results are the same, and in both scenarios your helpless. So why should 1 rule be outlawed in the US when there are plenty of other cheap things that can counterbalance that? I do believe there should be some sort of work done by the team in order to counter balance these cheap insta kill combos.


I mean in 1.1 people had all sorts of problems with HOWing, and the multi-teleport that let you teleport across the map in a short amount of time, and all of those got changed because the community couldn't adapt so what makes this any different? If anything there are people in this version that have adapted and still don't want it and would perfer to have it changed. I don't believe it's a matter of not being able to adapt, i believe its more of a fact that they understand how it works, and still don't like it.

 

[KYnetiK]

Why cant people just play DBZ style? Whats wrong with meleeing a guy, then smashing him into an object, and following up with some ki fodder? Thats DBZ imo and this is a Dragonball Z game. I never roll people, its just as fun getting as many hits in the air and slamming them into the ground while you kiblob them and worry about the next opponent.

The object of any fighting game, or combat for that matter, is to exploit the opponents vulnerablity.

That being said, theres still a practical limit of exploitation required in games though, I still think that inf rolling hits is something that couldve been changed in the game. I mean, if the engine wont allow it, you dont allow people to make the wrong moral decision. You cant force someones mind to just stop multihit, you force the game to not allow it.

A simple example - Each melee hit should act just like ammo being depleted. When not attacking for a certain period, ammo is recharged. As it stands we have unlimited ammo in 1.2. We dont just hand out infinite ammo in many other online games do we? Thus this system would probably counter several possible melee exploits, and what does 1.3 have? Stamina cost. Disco.

Its a pretty dodgy loophole in the game, and as a game designer i wouldnt be proud of it being there in the first place. Limit the number of allowed hits, remove it as a moment of vulnerablity, focus engine on airhits not ground hits, ...all these things could have been addressed earlier in 1.2s time but oh well, doesnt matter now....Far too late for this, we should all just bear with what remains of 1.2.3 until 1.3 becomes more substantial....

 

[sub]

Why cant people just play DBZ style? Whats wrong with meleeing a guy, then smashing him into an object, and following up with some ki fodder? Thats DBZ imo and this is a Dragonball Z game. I never roll people, its just as fun getting as many hits in the air and slamming them into the ground while you kiblob them and worry about the next opponent.

People will play the game the way they find fun. If someone has fun roleplaying DBZ, that's fine, but I personally want to play the game competitively and could care less if it resembled DBZ. Different strokes for different folks

The object of any fighting game, or combat for that matter, is to exploit the opponents vulnerablity.

Righto, but in this case, it's not the players fault that hes vulnerable or that he has a weakness. By that logic, if I knew of a bug ingame that would instantly kill an opponent with no effort from me, I should be allowed to use it because I would be exploiting my opponents vulnerability.

That being said, theres still a practical limit of exploitation required in games though, I still think that inf rolling hits is something that couldve been changed in the game. I mean, if the engine wont allow it, you dont allow people to make the wrong moral decision. You cant force someones mind to just stop multihit, you force the game to not allow it.

It's nearly impossible to get rid of all exploits and bugs in a game, especially considering the ESF team is doing this in their spare time for free. Fact is, the exploit does exist in 1.2 and players can make the wrong moral choice. However, if you're playing on a good server, making the wrong moral choice will result in said player getting banned for not following the rules. If this isn't the case, we have only ourselves to blame.

Its a pretty dodgy loophole in the game, and as a game designer i wouldnt be proud of it being there in the first place. Limit the number of allowed hits, remove it as a moment of vulnerablity, focus engine on airhits not ground hits, ...all these things could have been addressed earlier in 1.2s time but oh well, doesnt matter now....Far too late for this, we should all just bear with what remains of 1.2.3 until 1.3 becomes more substantial....

I can't speak for the ESF team, but in my opinion, there's nothing to be ashamed about as a designer, it's a bug, they happen and you can't fix them all. It should be fixed in 1.3.

 

[KYnetiK]

People will play the game the way they find fun. If someone has fun roleplaying DBZ, that's fine, but I personally want to play the game competitively and could care less if it resembled DBZ. Different strokes for different folks

One shouldnt be persecuted for knocking people down and kiblobbing or beaming them. otherwise theres little point in having kiblasts and beams. Getting pummeled by fodder is the price you pay for having been hit. Ki in combat is like the rising of the wind after all. Par combat should resemble DBZ in some form or another. Having the ability (or resorting) to keep kicking someone when theyre down is still just bad form. Its human psyche to find cruelty fun, but having the window to do it only enforces it.

Righto, but in this case, it's not the players fault that hes vulnerable or that he has a weakness. By that logic, if I knew of a bug ingame that would instantly kill an opponent with no effort from me, I should be allowed to use it because I would be exploiting my opponents vulnerability.

Thats why i carried on with my next paragraph....there are practical limits. My point is its up to the engine to have methods of controlling such exploits, because you cant leave any moral decision to the population and expect it to be mainstream. You just cant put a loaded gun on the floor and expect noone to pick it up.

It's nearly impossible to get rid of all exploits and bugs in a game, especially considering the ESF team is doing this in their spare time for free. Fact is, the exploit does exist in 1.2 and players can make the wrong moral choice. However, if you're playing on a good server, making the wrong moral choice will result in said player getting banned for not following the rules. If this isn't the case, we have only ourselves to blame.

Im in agreeance on this, im just pointing out simple fixes could have been introduced in regard to minimising exploits in the first instance (and in 1.3 they have already addressed my example of a method of control with a Stamina bar).
The problem is we cant always rely on people enforcing moral code, hence why we're even having this discussion. One cant rely on an admin being present, nor that they care. I can rely on the engine more than i could rely on any person. The fact of this thread is, people making the wrong moral choice are dominating certain 1.2 servers. Yes, we have ourselves to blame, but the engine gave us the window to be at fault. Good design makes that window smaller and harder to squeeze through.

I can't speak for the ESF team, but in my opinion, there's nothing to be ashamed about as a designer, it's a bug, they happen and you can't fix them all. It should be fixed in 1.3

I didnt say that they should be ashamed of themselves, im just saying that i wouldnt be proud of myself having not addressed such a large loophole. Theres no need to sit in a hole and cry about it, I would just personally feel compelled to fix it, but thats me. Anyhow, such issues are carried over to 1.3 now so imo i wouldnt touch 1.2 now either.

 

[Grega]

I didnt say that they should be ashamed of themselves, im just saying that i wouldnt be proud of myself having not addressed such a large loophole. Theres no need to sit in a hole and cry about it, I would just personally feel compelled to fix it, but thats me. Anyhow, such issues are carried over to 1.3 now so imo i wouldnt touch 1.2 now either.

That loophole was not known untill a few months after the release. The only reason why there is rolling is to hit the enemy into the air or smack down. The fact that you can hit them at an angle to continue the roll was never even forseen to be used.

As for darying it over to 1.3

To counter the roll exploit skidding was planned.

 

[DJ-Ready]

When I was still active we had the 2 air + 1 ground hit rule and everybody played by that rule.
And almost nobody used the roll exploit either ... and if somebody did, he'd get banned from most major "pro" servers around since we had this amxx ban system spread over almost all the good servers ... ooh yeah the good old days.
I was like, supreme server admin of europe hahahaha ... that was fun.

Us oldschool players should get active again to show todays players what it means to be pro.

 

[TiMaSta's1.1god]

you guys crack me up still arguing about the version haha, just get over the fact that the game is slower then a snail now

 

[Renyori]

Not arguing about the speed.. we're arguing about the mechanics and how people are taking advantage of rolling.