Removing Powerup!?!

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This thread got me thinking about the power up.
Link:
http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=65796

Why does ESF have powering up anyways? Grega pointed out that in DBZ, when any of the characters were powering up, that they did that to release all of their power and then it slowly drains as they fight. My suggestion is to remove the repetitive powering up.

With my suggestion, your character powers up once in the fight and that is to reach full power before you hit the turbo button to go even further. Anways, when you power up, you reach full power and then after that, you slowly lose your ki. Everything you do will take away from your ki pool. Melee and flying around will take much, much less ki then if you were to fire off energy beams and balls. The way to gain back your ki is to take a break from battling. This is similar to the stamina idea that the esf team is adding in. What happens when you run out of all your ki? You tap into your stamina and/or health pool, which will run out much faster then your ki pool.

This gives ESF a whole new way of playing because you will have to keep your eye's on your ki pool. You won't be able to power up, fire a KHH, teleport and repeat the process again. Thus making beam spamming much harder to actually do. Also, with this idea, you will no longer have that Uber player who dominates everyone because he will have to worry about his ki pool, thus giving those people who noobs, a much better fighting chance.
 
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In DragonBall Z, powering up doen't refill your power, It makes you stronger, That's just like taking powering up out of every DragonBall Z game, It doesn't exist.
 
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This would drastically change the game heh :D, Its kinda hard to imagine the game without powering up but what Im thinking of is like the way SSJ is now, no powerup with barely any ki drain. You are saying that the "powerup" would be limited somehow right? Like after the initial powerup you have to wait like 2 min to powerup again. Otherwise there wouldnt be any point in having ki drain because a half bar of key could last maybe 30 secs of fighting and then could be powered back up in less than 5 :p.

Its something to think about... would that mean that the fights would all end at once? once one person uses up all their ki/stamina they cant get it back and then its just the player who still has his ki beating on the loser that cant even swoop away :fight:.
 
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Even though he his beating the loser, he is still having his ki drained. The only way to actually get back any ki at all is to stand still and wait a 2 seconds before the ki starts to recharge. The recharge is nowhere close to what it is now wheny ou power up. You'd have to wait at least 10 seconds before you gained back your full ki bar. So this can be used to your advantage. Say you have been fighting alot and have barely any ki. You get away from battle and you start recharging. 4 seconds into the recharge your enemy hits you. Things don't look too bad because you still got some of your ki back which allows you to swoop back and throw the enemy, so you can rest, or charge up a power blast in your foes face.

Edit: Kong, I'm surprised the esf team didn't add that into there outline for 1.3
 
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when i think of this i think of constant teleporting, then i think of my constant victory

but how would you balance it? you could hit someone down rain a shower of gen balls then charge at them without any time lost it would make it hard for lower class players.
 
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Well if you ask me the whole powerup idea should work like this.

KI and PL are basicly the same thing in DBZ (so ill be refering to it as energy and not PL or KI). So you start with the highest amount of energy. You loose very little for flying and swooping. But it regains with time. So with seooping and flying you dont loose a thing. Also all the draining is done in percents. Now the difrent stuff.

Melee:

If using only melee you dont loose energy. Each punch on the other hand makes your energy pool bigger (exept if its blocked). It makes you stronger.




Beams:

Beams drain your energy. Each beam type drains a difrent amount. Lets say a fully charged Kamehameha drains 50% of your full energy. Even if your energy is twice the size of your oponents. It would drain half of the full energy bar. Basicly if you fire to much beams you run out of energy. Generic beam could drain 5% and kiblasts could drain 0.2% or 0.5%. NOTE: you loose the energy after the beam detaches or detonates.




Loosing energy:
-Efects:
*When you loose energy you also loose your strengh. Since your full energy is your full strength. So if you are at 50% energy you are at 50 % of your strength. This allso affects your speed a bit. You are 5 units slower. Due to thie disadvantage of beam ussage for loosing energy the strength opf beams can be upped a bit. Tests should determine the best balance. Same goes for the amount of energy the beams take.
*When you run out of energy you get into a state of tiredness. You cant swoop, turbo/powerup or attack. But you are still able to fly. You stay in that state till you gain some energy. But basicly if you allow yourself to get to that state youll die allmost allways.

-Ways to loose energy:
*Shooting beams: each beam you shoot takes from your energy pool.
*Taking damage: Each blow you take. Be it beam or melee drains your energy. Depending on the damage the attack does.
*Turbo/Powerup:explained in detail below.





Gaining energy:

Hitting someone: Hitting someone with any attack gains you some energy. The calculations should be [(old energy+gain)*drain = current energy If anyone didnt get that ill make an example. Lets say you have 2000 energy and the gain is 6. The drain was 50% so the equasion is (2000+6)*50% = 1003 ]
the same system that applys for PL now sould apply for energy gain. The more energy your oponent has the more you gain. IF hes a lot stronger you gain more. If hes weaker you gain less. (NOTE this means the 100% energy not the amount that you recover)

Auto regeneration: Energy regenerates itself with time. The speed should be tested out for best balance.




Turbo/Powerup:

This function gives you more energy and speed. The more you powerup the more energy you get. You also get a speedboost. But the catch is that it makes your energy drain faster. So if you overuse it you can run out of energy. This would make it a tactical weapon. Powering up to the right amount and than quickly making some sevear blows while making sure you dont loose to much energy.


Taking damage:

Depending on the damage you take you will loose energy and HP. Basicly if the attack was melee it will take more HP and if the attack was beam itll drain more ebergy. There should be a small difrence.



Beam/Block struggle:
When in a beam Struggle each player would have the current energy status at their desposal. And using the pumping beamstruggle idea you would put energy into the beam. The amount that you can put is is the amount you have. The more you put in the more powerfull you make your beam. The effect looses its strength over distance. So the closer the struggle point is to you the easier you push it back. Also there is no limit to how much you can put in. You can put in everything you have. But if you do that you gamble. You can either gain everything back or loose everything if the oponent still has enough energy). The winner of the struggle gets his energy back to the point where he had it when the struggle started. The looser is left with what he had when the struggle was finished. And he also takes damage if the struggle hits him.
Block struggle. Should work the same way. But the blocker has to sacrefie his energy. There is no way of winning a block struggle for the one blocking. So he will loose energy either way.The amount of energy he looses is the amount he puts into the struggle (same way as the pumping system). The one shooting the beam can winn his energy back by making sure the beam kills the blocker. But due to the fact that the blocker has the advantage of the struggle beeing basicly in the same point as he is he can push it back easier than the attacker.


Pros:
-Beamspam eradication
-Gives turbo and beams a more tactical role
-Brings ESF closer to DBZ
-(if you see them i dont)

Cons:
-If both players run out of energy it would be a game of who gets the first hit in wins.
-People could just kill themselvs when they run out of energy (new wy of laming)
-Some people would say that this requires no skill cause you loose the KI controll feature that the current version has.


Due to this little change beams would have to be rewriten. The charge times would have to be lowerd drasticly. Also it would be vital that the speed would be upped to. Also if the beam hits headon the damage should be bigger since your energy takes most of the damage. The splash damage would have to be reduced. Blast attacks should be allmost instant. the charge time should be just enough for the animation to play. This would make them a strategic attack.

This way youd have to use beams strategicaly. It would make them an asset to fast gameplay. You could use them to cripple the energy of the oponent. And than move in for the kill with melee. Overuse them and you will be the one in trouble. Use just melee and you would have to take the risk of getting your energy level downed by a beam from the oponent.

This way people would have to learn both melee and beams in order to be better in the game. Knowing how to use only one of the 2 wouldnt help much.


Meh dunno what i said it came to my mind when i wrote it. basicly along the way. If you understand any of this babbling i salute you ^^

If not than just forget you ever read it or drop me a PM or something ^^
 
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i would just sipmly remove loosing ki for swooping and flying.... in dbz they are able to fly as much as they want, just simply for big attacks they should take ki and for melee, since they only use their ki for that. Powerup simply a rush of regaining KI, means thei?re KI regains automaticly but with powerup it speeds up.

Also they may make simply the turbo just for a while your ki up, but not for always.
 
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in dbz they are able to fly as much as they want
Sorry but no, it isn't true. ^^

In the sayan Saga, Vegeta couldn't move more when Gohan Ozaaru felt on him, because he depleted all his KI during the fight. ^^
 
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There are also other times! I remember some where in the namek sage, where krillen almost could't stay flying in the air because he where so exausted! So I thinke there shut be a littel Ki lose when swooping...
 
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Just in response to your original post Kidboy, basically, you want people to fight, and then go somewhere and wait to fight again? Where's the fun? If I lost all my ki I would just console kill myself and spawn again with all my ki and keep doing the same thing.

I don't want to wait when I play a game to take part. I want to jump in and have fun right away without stopping.

You're idea would slow down gameplay a ridiculous amount. Let alone kill one of the strategy factors of ESF. We have to have a ki pool so that people are vunerable at some point when recharging it. Otherwise, they'd just fly endless swooping around trying to hit each other with no success if both are skilled players.

So yeah, I didn't read much else of the thread, (sorry grega, your post is long and i'm feeling lazy.) but it just doesn't work for a fun game.
 
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gameplay wouldnt be slowed down, just kills from someone recharging would be low.. but anyways.... my thread with the idea originally was better ^^ so HA!
 
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I have to agree with Kama on this.

Let's say you're fighting someone of equal skill. You both initiate battle at the same time, and your Ki drain is almost equal.

At a certain point, you both run out, unable to fight any longer.. so you just stand there, wait, stare each other down.. waiting for your Ki to come back so you can rush in.

It's like a Western quick-draw.

That might be fun for a little while.. but then it gets annoying.
 
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well this culd be just like a game mod for esf (last man standing or someting like this)whitout removing the power up
 
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thats an awesome idea... school is finally starting to set in, so i might try this out.
 
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go for it swobj.

although how about a own tournament system, like 4-8 people have to join a server, and after everybody got in the tournament starts,lol then the defualt ki loose system (wich we have right now) would match, otherwise im really hating to charge up for getting ki again, not to say its because i suck at this game, its just simply not dbz.
 
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Shiyojin Rommyu said:
I have to agree with Kama on this.

Let's say you're fighting someone of equal skill. You both initiate battle at the same time, and your Ki drain is almost equal.

At a certain point, you both run out, unable to fight any longer.. so you just stand there, wait, stare each other down.. waiting for your Ki to come back so you can rush in.

It's like a Western quick-draw.

That might be fun for a little while.. but then it gets annoying.
it all depends on how quick the recharge of ki is and the drain of each attack.. doesn't mean you'll stand there for a minute before you can move again...
 
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imkongkong said:
it all depends on how quick the recharge of ki is and the drain of each attack.. doesn't mean you'll stand there for a minute before you can move again...
Kong is right on this one folks.
 
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in my opinon flying was actually stamina based.. like jumping running fast ect.. all that stuff they could do without using any "ki" energy.

as for flying faster usually they'de let out some kinda cry an go "hea" then you'de see the aura around them appear as they took off. Thats when ki is used..

ki and stamina were used for beam attacks.. stamina to control the beam.. ki to actually make the beam ect..

Uh.. so i think you guys should change it so that flying / jumping / running / and hitting is all based on "stamina". Then ki can be based on beaming/ flying faster then norm(flies so fast you see a ki trail + aura around the character) powerup.. ect

as for how the power up works.. i think it should work like this..

the ki and stamina bar should be divided into 5 sections. it should look something like this |--|-----|-----|-----|-----|.
K .. I think it should take 4 to 5 seconds to charge up and fill the both bars completely.. now specificly talking about the ki bar.. k when its full the ki bar stays full it doesn't drain or anything unless you use ki. The stamina bar is what lets you do all the physical stuff, and a persons' stamina can be drain when taking damage or doing physical stuff like flying, running, jumping, and behind hit.... so.. The stamina bar has 5 sections right.. when the bar lowers into each section the players accuracy/strenght/speed/endurance lowers per section to a lower status. If the bar hits 0 the player can still perform the tasks he normally does except at a weaker level. Like he'll hit weaker and hits that he endures do more damage becuz his stamina is so low. An for the accuracy its now more inaccurate so you'll have to be close range to land anything.

K now for the ki bar.. same concept... the ki bar doesn't drain unless using ki.. once your ki is at 0.. you do minimum damage. the damage gradually lowers as ki is used up.

now for the powerup thing.. 2 kinds of powerup to power up each bar.. simply hold powerup to power up the stamina bar.. letting your character do more damgage + better accuracy + speed ect.. then their is the power+turbo which refills your Ki that you use for beams an flying faster then the nomal swoop speed..

you cant fill both bars at once.. this means players with mostly just powerup (no turbo) then when their bar is high enough they will turn turbo on to fill up their ki bar.. hope you all like .. this was a brain storm by the way.. came off the top of my head..
 

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