Regarding melee

[Ryokeen]

Btw better at using game features is fine, but healing is not a game feature you use it's a gamefeature wich is "activated" when you are allready better than others, making the gap even bigger.
And grega no he doesn't he wants ESF to be some game to evaluate the raw skill of someone, not a game wich many ppl like to play because it's fun,fair and doesn't benefit those who are better than others even more

@Vector yeah to that it's better that way. If needed i'll copy my stance related posts there^^

 

[vector]

http://forum.esforces.com/threads/157765-Combat-Stances

Made the thread for combat stances



ps.
AND also ur forgetting about wanna-be-pros abusing this healing by hitting thing. you could be fighting a real pro ... and when u are losing badly u can go and hit a few noobs to get ur hp back a little and go back to try and defeat him. i could see you doing something like that

 

[hleV]

Its a game its meant to be fun, its not meant to be the evil stepmother.

A game that is fun and is fair towards you is better than just a game that is fun.

but healing is not a game feature you use it's a gamefeature wich is "activated" when you are allready better than others

What kind of healing system are you referring to?

 

[Grega]

What kind of healing system are you referring to?

He is talking about your idea to regain HP uppon killing someone.

And he is right in the notion that it doesnt reflect on your skill since it gives you a kill streak like advantage compared to others who are already not as good as you.

Also how is it not fair towards you. If you do over 1000 damage to other players before decieving 100 damage done to you. I say its fair. Why should others have to do 110 damage to you just because you killed 10 other people.

 

[hleV]

I didn't suggest any particular kind of healing system. What I suggested is something to be able to keep yourself alive and not be doomed to die after a limited amount of taken hits no matter what you do in-between them.

 

[Ryokeen]

Yeah but dude that's how games work...you play, you do damage, you get hit and at some point you die. It's absolutly irrelevant how skilled the player was who gave you the final hit. If you're so concerned about reflecting skill...then take it as a motivation to do as much dmg/kills with the HP given. Again that's how games work, that's the challange. UT as an example you can be just unlucky, go around a corner and get hit by a rocket wich wasn't even aimed at you. And you die. So what ? Does it matter that a pro shot his rocket or a noob ? Not at all because you're dead and respawn with full HP near some weapons and are good to go to rape that guys ass who accidently killed you by spash damage

Simple said any form of system wich keeps you alive longer based on how well you play means something like this : Initial HP 600 some hits 500...some dmg done 520, some hits 450 dome dmg done 500...you should be able to imagine that your skill basicly gives you a character with more hp than other not so skilled players have, wich in turns means you are even harder to beat, not because you evade attacks or got a better movement, no because the game gives you additional HP wich an unskilled player doesn't get.

 

[Grega]

I didn't suggest any particular kind of healing system. What I suggested is something to be able to keep yourself alive and not be doomed to die after a limited amount of taken hits no matter what you do in-between them.

And in a previous post i explained to you what different systems are and why they are not a valid option for ESF. The game is just to different. The nature of the game is to different. We cant do a system that heals you as you kill others, cause thats unbalanced in the same way kill streaks are unbalanced. We cant do a pickup system because its to abuseable. Its to easy to run in the game. Especially with the faster speeds, you cant even catch people with teleporting when they are on the run. So getting pickups is just to abuseable. We cant use a pasive heal system, because that goes against the gameplay orientation, and promotes hiding, and that is not the type of gameplay we want to go with.

The fairest option is to simply have a set amount of HP and when you die you respawn with a full bar again.

As said removing kills from the score already deals with kill stealing, suiciding and so on. You will be rated purely on how much damage you can do, and what people you are doing it to. You will get more points for attacking opponents with more PL, and less points for attacking opponents with fewer PL.

So again. kills are irrelevant as they mean nothing, they are only there to ease up the tension and give you 5 second to breathe after you die. Other than that we could easily just make everyone immortal and it would still work. But thats not good from a psychological perspective. Not to mention respawning also means you are taken to a safe area from a dangereous area.

But if you still have problems with those lucky shots that just happen to kill you, then you might have a stress issue.

 

[hleV]

Yeah but dude that's how games work...you play, you do damage, you get hit and at some point you die.

In most games you're given the chance to do something about it.

It's absolutly irrelevant how skilled the player was who gave you the final hit.

The scoreboard suggests otherwise.

If you're so concerned about reflecting skill...then take it as a motivation to do as much dmg/kills with the HP given. Again that's how games work, that's the challange. UT as an example you can be just unlucky, go around a corner and get hit by a rocket wich wasn't even aimed at you. And you die. So what ? Does it matter that a pro shot his rocket or a noob ? Not at all because you're dead and respawn with full HP near some weapons and are good to go to rape that guys ass who accidently killed you by spash damage

We're discussing whether it's fair. Of course UT, like most games, has a luck factor, no arguing there. Thing is, you are given the means to heal up, so you can make up for your own mistakes and opponent's skill or luck. You aren't giving skill enough credit if you're punishing a pro by death due to some minor happening which a skilled player should be able to make up for, because they're skilled.

Simple said any form of system wich keeps you alive longer based on how well you play means something like this : Initial HP 600 some hits 500...some dmg done 520, some hits 450 dome dmg done 500...you should be able to imagine that your skill basicly gives you a character with more hp than other not so skilled players have, wich in turns means you are even harder to beat, not because you evade attacks or got a better movement, no because the game gives you additional HP wich an unskilled player doesn't get.

Are all your arguments based on this kind of healing system?

And in a previous post i explained to you what different systems are and why they are not a valid option for ESF. The game is just to different.

Nothing in ESF screams "fight until you get hit x times, that's the only way it can work". You should be able to take an unlimited amount of hits if you're good enough at keeping yourself alive. The ability to survive should only be limited by your skill, not a game mechanic which dooms you to die from the start. Or in other words, you shouldn't easily get a kill that you didn't deserve. How to properly achieve that I do now know as I've been too focused on explaining the basis for my idea.

The fairest option is to simply have a set amount of HP and when you die you respawn with a full bar again.

Your fairest option is not fair at all.

You will be rated purely on how much damage you can do, and what people you are doing it to.

Oh I seriously hope so.

So again. kills are irrelevant as they mean nothing, they are only there to ease up the tension and give you 5 second to breathe after you die. Other than that we could easily just make everyone immortal and it would still work. But thats not good from a psychological perspective. Not to mention respawning also means you are taken to a safe area from a dangereous area.

I agree with this, but the game itself does not properly reflect that as long as irrelevant stats are displayed to players, implying they're relevant.

But if you still have problems with those lucky shots that just happen to kill you, then you might have a stress issue.

Are you being serious? What does considering lucky kills to be undeserved and unfair have to do with stress issues? I'm not discussing this because it's the most important thing in my life and I can't live with how it currently works, but because I like to discuss and get my point across, especially when people disagree with me without providing valid arguments.

Oh and I forgot, how are Tier bonuses fair? I'm not saying thay aren't, but all your speech about killstreaks should apply to Tier bonuses. So healing is unfair, and Tier bonuses are?

 

[Grega]

Tier bonuses are flashy hits that do slightly more damage than normal melee and dont have head on counters ^^

That said we never said tier bonuses were limited to those people doing well. Tier bonuses are both kill and death streaks combined. You acumulate them over time with your gamelay. How you use them is up to you, but you can not hold on to the points past death. Its just that the good players will unlock them before the bad players, but they can all use them regardless of how well they are doing.

Its just that the bonus point system isnt fully in the game yet, so the only way currently to get points is melee hits. But the design is a bit more expansive than that.

And again the only reason why kills are on the score board is because the ingame community at the time petitioned us to keep them in. We were going to throw them out. Meaning if you have a beef with them being shown, take it to the playerbase, that wanted them there, not us as you are clearly the minority.

 

[hleV]

Anyway if Tier bonus is OK, why can't it be used to regenerate HP?

Hmm but I guess it wouldn't make sense to use Tier bonus for regeneration considering there is no point in preserving life.

 

[Grega]

Bonus points have 2 functions.

1 flashy melee attacks
2 instant beam attacks

They are there due to all the suggestions of meteo attacks that were made by the community. So they are flashy specials. They are only linked to the bonus point system so that tehy cant be spammed. So the whole idea of bonus points is a limiter against spam XD

 

[vector]

there are actually a lot of games that dont let u get ur HP back, Counter strike is one.

 

[hleV]

You HP is back on a new round, regardless if you died in the previous one or not. ESF forces you to die before you get your HP back.

 

[vector]

You HP is back on a new round, regardless if you died in the previous one or not. ESF forces you to die before you get your HP back.

you obviously haven't played CS death match.

 

[hleV]

Oh well you obviously haven't played mode GHJTJDGF from a game gDSGSUDHTGJ which has a perfect health regeneration system so your argument is invalid. Get the **** out. If you're bringing up a game, at least talk about its main game mode.

 

[CombatMane]

Oh well you obviously haven't played mode GHJTJDGF from a game gDSGSUDHTGJ which has a perfect health regeneration system so your argument is invalid. Get the **** out. If you're bringing up a game, at least talk about its main game mode.

isin't Esf deathmatch game? So he has a good point.

 

[hleV]

isin't Esf deathmatch game? So he has a good point.

He doesn't have a point because nobody ever claimed that games that have no healing system are non-existent. So not only what he wrote was absolutely pointless and irrelevant, but he also used the worst example ever. Proper deathmatch games (which CS is not) usually have a healing system.

 

[CombatMane]

I like how you ignored my point there. (healing works the same in Esf and in Cs deathmatch)

Sent from my Lumia 800 using Tapatalk

 

[pumadace2000]

isin't Esf deathmatch game? So he has a good point.

Also isn't deathmatch the main mode from CS especially for people who queue solo?

But you know what. It's not a good point because ESF:F isn't CS. It's absolutely not. It's different. Dare I say it is a damn unique game, by the way it works. Sure it's a source game so some things may without doubt somehow be similar to source engine games, but really it's its own thing.

I absolutely love it for that fact alone, besides the fact that I am a Dragonball fan. It's unique. Then queue the people who come in and say let's turn it into something similar to some other generic P.O.S. title out there that boring jocks play and claim they are 'gamers'. I believe this game should have health pick-ups, because I played Hupidur-dur and I really loved how much Hupidur-dur had health pickups.

I say it should have a regen system because Call of Doodie has health regen system and there is nothing I love more than hiding behind rocks to regenerate for no reason after I've been shot.

Let's have a regeneration system because all other games out there have a regen system and my god this game needs a regen system, because all other games out there have a regen system and this game will never be accepted in their exclusive group, unless it has some sort of regen system. I mean Nosgoth, Battlefield, Team Fortress 2, Call of Duty 12,13,14,15,16,156, Warface, Any other first person/third person shooter that isn't ARMA or similar to that! This is a very exclusive club guys! Seriously guys Buu and Krilin have to drop candy from their arse that other can pick up to regenerate!

You know what. If ESF not having a regen system will just mean it will be entirely different from all of those games with regen systems, than on that principal alone let ESF:F stay the same.
Because if being a proper deathmatch game means that ESF:F will be similar to a generic mainstream bullshit title like COD then I say **** that.

*Grabs a smoke and lights it* Generic mainstream games can go **** themselves! Any other game that dares to do things differently: All the power to you, may you forever be different or be different until you get ridiculously popular and everyone starts copying you.

 

[Ryokeen]

Uhm i also don't see how the scoreboard reflects that you got killed by a noob...i never ever saw any names behind each single death...you don't make sense, your arguments are invalid

Then healthpacks in UT are fair because you don't have to be better than others to get them, you run over them and done. You can be the bester player on the server when they are taken or to far away and someone just shot a grenade in your direction you're dead. That's why they work. What you suggest is something "I'm better than you so i think you don't deserve to be able to kill me" <- biggest problem there , you are not in the position to choose whether another player deserves a kill or not.

And pls explain me the following. Where is the difference between a noob getting you with one hit because you're on low hp or a pro getting you with a hit when you're low on hp ? There is none, in both cases they were lucky to kill you with a few hits or even one. The Scoreboard just counts +1 to your deaths. You (and you said that enough times) just want something to prevent the fact that everybody got the same chance to kill you by a lucky hit no matter how skilled they are because you think and say inferior players don't deserve it. Honestly with that attitude of yours they deserve it more than anything.