RE: SAM Bar

New Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
436
Best answers
0
Thanks for linking me, Grega.

It's great to hear about the Rage... I mean SAM bar. Essentially it's making the fight more intense and interesting as it goes on, so that's awesome. I like the idea of distinguishing between Melee and Beams, but I wonder whether they should be separate or not. Maybe one bar with two ways of using it might be better, unless you want to make it so one compliments the other.

EX: Melee 1 allows you to knockback the enemy, Ki 2 allows you to blast them quickly.

I'll start off with my suggestions up front so you know where I'm going with this.

Ideas behind SAM Bar usage
-Add customized Character Passives on SAM Tiers 1-3
-Add customized OR universal Actives

-Single SAM bar with multiple uses (Melee and Ki share same bar)
-SAM Passives compliment using Actives
-SAM Actives counter other Actives
-Add quotes to the Actives to make the game more interesting and cue people what's happening

Assumptions:
-Single bar with multiple uses
-If constantly hitting/getting hit by the enemy with same PL, rage... SAM fills up within about a minute.
-Mentality behind players using melee are trying to be more offensive, people using Ki are trying to play more defensively/strategically.

Examples of Passives same passives may be used in higher levels and given greater bonuses
1: Knockback on you reduced
1: Teleport/Swoop consumption reduced
1: Knockback on enemy increased

2: Ki attacks travel faster
2: Melee strength increased
2: Ki attack strength increased

3: Base Stamina regen increased
3: Base Ki regen increased

Universal Actives
Melee 1: Knockback - Enemy is knocked away with delayed recovery, allowing chain-melee through teleporting. You have roughly a 5 second window to chain attacks.
*Old-school 1.1 players should like this. Nice add-on feature for Turbo Melee as well.
*Knockback may be lessened by consuming significant Ki, thus making its use strategic and not overly spammed.

Melee 2: Death Blow - Severely knocks out Stamina of the opponent. A block will not negate Stamina damage, but will stop Health damage.
"Don't you realize yet you're up against the perfect weapon?" - Cell
*May be used with 'Knockback' Active.

Melee 3: Power Overwhelming ;) - Stamina is invulnerable for 10-15 seconds. Stamina does not deplete from current level under any circumstance.
"It's time to show you the power of a true Saiyajin!" - Vegeta
*May be used before a Power Struggle, as a last-ditch effort, or to keep Transformations going longer.


Ki 1: Second Wind - Replenish some Ki. Aggressive Audio wav.
"I can still fight!" - Krillin
*Helps avoid Knockback, among other things.

Ki 2: Second Coming - Replenishes Stamina Encouraging Audio wav
"My dad taught me not to be afraid of bullies like you." - Gohan
"You should know that a weapon doesn't make the man." - Trunks
*Recovers from Death Blow, among other situations.

Ki 3: Finisher - Beam/Bomb charges faster with larger blast radius. Also much more difficult to block against.
*May receive passive bonuses, such as 'Ki attacks travel faster'

DOES NOT CONSUME:
Transform 1: Basic transformation (or remove-null)

Transform 2: Quick transformation Consumes 1 SAM Bar, but regens some Stamina/Health. (Ominous quote)

Transform 3: To one level beyond their current means, heavier stamina drain. Consumes 2 Bars
"I have to have it, I have to experience it!" - Vegeta


Other Suggestions
-Points gained in SAM diminish when out of combat
-Diminishing points directly increase Stamina and MAYBE health, rate/amt to be determined
-Player fighting opponent with higher PL will gain bonus points more quickly, depending on gap
-Transform requires lvl 1 in SAM bar for temporary transformers.

Explanation of Setup
The idea behind the way I organized these moves was to consider the pace of the battle. If you're going to give up passive benefits, using the actives needs to support your on-going strategy, or help you stop whatever interrupted it.

The Melee setup is about being Offensive and making hits counts, which is congruent with the In-Fighting layout I mentioned in another post. The Ki setup is more defensive and strategic, allowing you to recouperate at the right times to either avoid getting hit with Melee moves, or to recover after being hit with one. (Ki regen to avoid Knockback, Stamina regen to recover from Death Blow). However, 'Power Overwhelming' will most likely be the ultimate counter, allowing a player to fight back against an otherwise unstoppable 'Finisher' and having a chance to turn the tides.

Consider this...
If a player uses Power Overwhelming, then they'll have no Passives or Actives during or after it wearing off. This means he's vulnerable to Knockback, Death Blow, and Finisher with no possible way to counter it.

A player can use Death Blow to hasten a person falling out of stamina-consuming Transformations, or to seal the deal on someone already struggling with lessened Stamina.

However, if a player uses Death Blow and they can't down the enemy, the other player can use Second Coming to replenish some of their stamina, thus negating that landed Death Blow.

Now here's an example of a Passive helping an Active. If say Goku knocks down Buu and wants to use a Finisher, he can use Ki 3 Finisher. His Spirit Bomb will charge up faster and have a larger blast radius. The Tier 2 PASSIVE will allow Ki attacks to travel faster, thus helping him connect it.

The reason Finishers have an increased blast radius is to make the opponent think twice about escaping, and maybe being forced to block it instead. This is a Full SAM bar attack anyhow.

If a player can reach Tier 2 quick enough WHILE using Power Overwhelming, they can increase their Stamina afterwards, allowing a turn-around.

EDIT
The SAM bar's tiers are gained exponentially, meaning that Tier 1 can be used more often, and Tier 3 is much more difficult to build up to. If you reach Tier 2 for example, you can use Tier 1 maybe ~2.5 times. If you reach Tier 3, you can use Tier 1 moves like 6 times.

Tier 3 will be used primarily by people wanting to build their bonus points until the end of the fight, depending on Passives and skilled gameplay, or by people fighting a significantly stronger opponent, in which case Finishers, temporary, higher Transformations, and Power Overwhelming will be VERY useful. Final Form Buu fighting untrans Goku will not be using a Finisher on him. But untrans Goku fighting Final Form Buu might be throwing an amped up Spirit Bomb at him if he can down him long enough.

Maybe perma-trans characters can only transform when their SAM bar is full, making it more difficult to reach their final form.

Also, maybe the SAM bar can increase on its own if the person is low on health. I'm not saying at a very fast rate, but just a little. Sometimes a little amount can make a big difference.
 
Last edited:
Former Forcepit Member :(
✔️ HL Verified
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Aug 21, 2006
Messages
1,715
Best answers
0
NO that SOUNDS LIKE A BAD IDEA A VERY BAD IDEA
 
Freelance Mappzor
✔️ HL Verified
🚂 Steam Linked
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Nov 21, 2003
Messages
17,065
Best answers
0
Sounds like it would need about 5 to 8 more addiutional buttons. Especially with the different actives and pasives.

Then again the pasives you mentioned we will use in character balancing.

In any case the SAM bar and bonus system you should imagine as the special comboes in console games ^^
 
New Member
★ Black Lounger ★
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Apr 15, 2003
Messages
4,628
Best answers
0
I think by passives, he means, as long as you have the bonus points, it is active continually.

I kinda like that idea. I'm not sure about it though. As it stands the SAM has quite a variety of uses already.
 
New Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
436
Best answers
0
NO that SOUNDS LIKE A BAD IDEA A VERY BAD IDEA
I think it'd be more constructive to have a positive, optimistic approach to the idea instead of forfeiting to first impressions. Maybe you could explain what about it you don't like, and we could figure out a way to improve on it. If at its best the ideas still don't connect, then there's still something to be gained by it I'm sure.

Sounds like it would need about 5 to 8 more addiutional buttons. Especially with the different actives and pasives.

Then again the pasives you mentioned we will use in character balancing.

In any case the SAM bar and bonus system you should imagine as the special comboes in console games ^^
They don't necessarily need more buttons for everything. I'm assuming whatever is currently planned with the SAM bar will take additional buttons or some alteration on the game anyhow, right?

I know what the concept behind the SAM bar is, but I want to elaborate on it from a different angle, so it's not just a replication of a fighting game, but unique to this game itself. This isn't a 2D fighting game, and you don't fight with 6 buttons and basic 2D directionals. (I know, left, right, up down, etc are the same buttons, but they maneuver differently in a 3D environment.) I guess what I'm trying to say is my focus is primarily on how the SAM bar can be used in ESF, based on what I know, and not so much how it's currently tailored to other games.


I think by passives, he means, as long as you have the bonus points, it is active continually.

I kinda like that idea. I'm not sure about it though. As it stands the SAM has quite a variety of uses already.
Yeah that's exactly what I mean. That way if you use the SAM bar, your passives may aid your moves, but you lose your offensive/defensive bonuses, so you need to be smart about when and how you use it.

I'm really just going off of what I know is going to be in the game and trying to elaborate based on that. You guys might already have some things setup that cover Passives etc. I just wanted to throw some ideas in to help spice up whatever you're working with, or maybe give you a different way in approaching it.


You all can reply as you wish, but again I'd personally appreciate focused criticisms, like on what does and does not work in your opinion, and what about it you like and dislike. EX: Grega doesn't like too many added buttons, and Skiwan thinks passives may have potential. That gives me something to work with so I can alter these ideas to better suit what we're all looking for and expecting in this game, and also lets me consider HOW these ideas could be coded, theoretically speaking, so I'm not just suggesting impossibilities. I want these ideas to have the potential to be used, so I'm not just wasting mine and everyone else's time. Thanks. :yes:
 
Freelance Mappzor
✔️ HL Verified
🚂 Steam Linked
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Nov 21, 2003
Messages
17,065
Best answers
0
To be honest i think we should post the current design for melee we are working with (ofcourse thats up to the brass) but it should give people a better insight in what we have planned.
 
New Member
★ Black Lounger ★
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Apr 15, 2003
Messages
4,628
Best answers
0
So do I, might need to go through it tonight though, see if anythings changed.
 
Back from the shadows
✔️ HL Verified
Joined
May 1, 2006
Messages
435
Best answers
0
Holy crap, you actually gave it some thought huh?

I'll read later.. too tired now.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top