RANT: Accomplishment

[Sandstorm]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=myHGEKPkzn0&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YA8do9C7180

I don't expect that anyone will actually watch the 40 minute video, but, I figure I'll post some of the source material for my little rant here.

If you're going to post yourself, doing something like a speed run in a game, DO IT WITHOUT USING CHEATS, OR EXPLOITS. In the 6:00 video, if you watch, Link moves at a speed not attainable. He moves so fast, in fact, that the game can't even redraw the screen in time. Watch him as he zips through each dungeon, nonchalantly flaunting his speed cheat, and thinking he's all that.

Then we move onto the 35 minute video, he's using an exploit. This being the save game exploit; he doesn't actually walk around the world, or backtrack his steps, he just brings up the same game menu, and spawns from the start.

If you're going to post a video of you completing the game in as little time as possible, do it legitimately. Don't use hacks, cheats, or exploits to do it. This is where the topic comes in. ACCOMPLISHMENT. Playing the game, from start to finish, beating it as fast as you can legitimately -- that's an accomplishment. It doesn't produce untrue times; and it shows you can play the game fair and square like everyone else.

 

[Synth]

I don't think it was about accomplishment or bragging about beating the game.

It's about the humour of watching it being beat, that fast.

 

[Eon]

I beat the original metroid in 35 minutes ;o

with a game genie ;x

but it was only infinite health!

 

[DiebytheSword]

Cheating is lame if you haven't beat the game once on your own. Cheating in multiplayer for big stats is twice as ***.

 

[Adaptus]

I only cheat after I've beaten a game, or until I'm satisfied with what I've accomplished in it so far.

I agree with Cucumba. It's no fun if you cheat your way through the first time of playing a game - it completely destroys the entire experience and it's huge disrespect for the people who spent hours upon hours building and crafting the game for you.

 

[Promiscuous Girl]

I only cheat after I've beaten a game, or until I'm satisfied with what I've accomplished in it so far.

I agree with Cucumba. It's no fun if you cheat your way through the first time of playing a game - it completely destroys the entire experience and it's huge disrespect for the people who spent hours upon hours building and crafting the game for you.

I have beaten plenty of games, using an " Action Replay " on the first time through. Not everyone wants to spends hours upon hours, beating something(in which it still takes, because cheats now days hardly effects the speed in the matter seen in those video). It's about setting a limit that doesn't take away from the experience(1 or 2 cheats tops)--even now, lately games have still been able to kill you even with cheats such as an infinite health, weaponry, sub elements, and ect; Most of the time, getting killed with those on would probably make the game to freeze up during the worst possible moment. It's only disrespectful to people who make it their unwarranted concern--after you drop $50 on a game(or whatever the amount may be), then the developers(and whoever else involved) could care less what you do with it. Resell it, throw it in the garbage, ect. It's not their problem and they dont have time to care over a matter so trivial

 

[Rayos]

People do the save game ones to prove the glitches in a game and how someone would exploit them. Yes they are fake and anyone that brags about them is a moron to think others don't know. many will do it to show that it is possible to beat a game in such n such time and show that it is the ABSOLUTE fastest time. That is it. I wouldn't be mad at them...who cares and why are you butting into other people's stuff

then again that person normally does better videos....that zelda 2 one is piss poor

 

[Fire Phoenix]

Who cares?

 

[MF29]

Who cares?

Exactly.

12345

 

[Optional22]

I used to have a video of Dopefish beating HL1 in 40 minutes non-stop with no cheats whatsoever. It was very impressive. He bunny hopped through the whole thing (he could have been using a bunnyhop thiry party hack, hold space to infinitely bunny hop, but you cannot tell).

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

Well it pisses me off, and here's two good reasons why it should piss you off too:

1.) It is a way of publicizing exploits that can be used to cheat. This forum is a perfect example of that--how different would ESF 1.2 have been if 'HOWing' had never been given a name and it was not made common knowledge? Now maybe in single player games, this isn't the case, but it is still annoying. When I first got Warcraft III I was stuck on a level early in the undead campaign, and my friend borrowed the game from someone after seeing me play. I played that level for over a month. Whereas within 3 days my friend had beaten the whole game, and made sure to brag about it to everyone we knew. We all knew he cheated--because when we went to play multiplayer one day, he didn't even know the most basic of the controls. The point still stands, it's unfair and whether you have a noble intention or not, every time you use a cheat of any kind you encourage those who would use it to ruin the experiences of others

2.) Cheating always counts, because it is habit forming. The same friend above, he hates all multiplayer games, because in many of them he can't cheat to win and he's grown as a gamer over time in such a way that he absolutely has to cheat. Psychologically he is driven to find the easiest way to achieve victory in every game he plays. If a game is too level, he simply doesn't play it.

Bottom line is, you should care. Suppose that was a multiplayer game--whether the person means it or not, he would have been educating innumerable cheaters on how to do whatever scum tactic he used in the video. This can subsequently RUIN the ENTIRE GAME.

So people should care. Besides, if you can say "Who cares?" about any negative aspect to gaming, you're not even really a gamer anyway.

 

[Adaptus]

I have beaten plenty of games, using an " Action Replay " on the first time through. Not everyone wants to spends hours upon hours, beating something(in which it still takes, because cheats now days hardly effects the speed in the matter seen in those video). It's about setting a limit that doesn't take away from the experience(1 or 2 cheats tops)--even now, lately games have still been able to kill you even with cheats such as an infinite health, weaponry, sub elements, and ect; Most of the time, getting killed with those on would probably make the game to freeze up during the worst possible moment. It's only disrespectful to people who make it their unwarranted concern--after you drop $50 on a game(or whatever the amount may be), then the developers(and whoever else involved) could care less what you do with it. Resell it, throw it in the garbage, ect. It's not their problem and they dont have time to care over a matter so trivial

In my opinion, if you're not going to play a game the way it was intended, you shouldn't play it at all.

I don't know what kinds of games you play, but there are very few games I've played that could warrant the use of cheats, allowing you to pass by the parts that are less fun or simply more time-consuming and thus more of a chore, which would probably be certain RPGs now that I think about it. I personally thought Star Ocean: The Second Story to really drag on and on after a while. So I just stopped playing it.

If I start cheating simply because I don't want to have to go through certain parts, then it completely destroys for me what a certain game is trying to be, the kind of experience it seeks to deliver. In my opinion, it's an affront to the developers, some of whom pour their hearts into making games, like a Zelda or a Metal Gear.

I'm not dissing people who cheat. I use cheats too sometimes, but only after I've played a game so much that I feel satisfied with what I've accomplished, which usually comes after I've beaten it completely.

[/needless rant]

 

[Zeonix]

HOWing in 1.2 isn't an issue. It was in 1.0/1.1, but most people learned about it either through enquiring about it ingame ("WTF IS HOWING? TELL ME!") or through imitating other players (which you can't avoid).

Besides that, I completely agree with you. I hate all forms of cheating unless someone is willingly helping me cheat on some kind of test. I'll allow that (obviously). I don't tolerate cheating in ESF or in any other games.

 

[ZeroNightmare]

just curious.... what undead level were you stuck on....

i like cheats in shooting games, but i think it makes them more fun, but i havent really used them since like... turok

i like having all the weapons, and unlimited ammo too, i dont run around blowing everything away with bfgs or anything, i just enjoy having all the guns and what not

edit, and whats HOWING i wasnt here back then.

 

[Rayos]

here is a hint...if you dont' want something ruined in the game....umm hmm well...uh...oh yea...Don't watch those videos.

if someone's a.d.d can't be controlled in which they want nothing to be revealed to them but they watch the video anyway...that is their own fault. These games are way over a decade old. Everyone pretty much has seen them and most people have at least PLAYED them.

again ill bring to mind that these are OLD GAMES..old games that are having these exploits and SAVE STATES...hmm Save States...i wonder if i can do that in multiplayer...gee i wonder. These don't have multiplayer...and if someone was able to do them in multiplayer...they are taken care of by people in servers. Hence all the exploits in esf are limited/banned. I'm not saying whatever but i'm saying..

Get a grip, it is a game...it isn't the end of the world...dont' cry over it....people are going to do what they want.




EDIT* Howing = Head on whoring.

it was back when if you had a head on attack...whoever had more KI not pl..would win. So people would wait for someone to get really close and then attack. That way they always had more ki since you use ki in swoop. That was at least one FORM of howing if i am not mistaken...then again...i liked that technique

so once more i will say...If you don't like it...don't read or watch it. Tough...sorry i see no reason to get upset. Thinking it is stupid...maybe....upset? ...if you consider a true gamer an 8 year old that complains about people doing this in a game they didn't know existed...well...i'd have to question you on that

 

[Fire Phoenix]

Howing wasn't a cheat, it was coded in the game. An exploit. Not a cheat. And I agree with SS. I still don't see why people care about some guy posting a video of how he can cheat his way through a game.

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

In this particular case, Saru, I see your points. These are old games we've all crushed or seen crushed. Back in the late eighties/early nineties we used to say we "flipped" a game when we were done with it.

But suppose this was a more recent game.

"It's just a game, don't cry over it, people do what they want." Obviously you don't play a lot of games with other people. I can give about 5000 examples off the top of my head of something players do that makes a game completely unfun for me, in a multitude of games across all platforms. Period.

You're missing the point. It isn't that I don't like watching these videos--I don't, cause they're stupid and pointless, in fact I would go so far as to say almost every video I've ever seen on the entire internet is loathed by me for this very reason. But the point is, by publicizing ways to cheat, you help promote cheating. And thus more and more people will begin to cheat. And before long you have games like in Smackdown, where everyone uses headbutts only in their movesets because they do the most head damage and can beat an enemy the fastest...so almost every sets ALL their moves to headbutts...and you get to have these horrifically unrealistic wrestling matches that are a mockery of what the designers intend.

The same is true of all games. By cheating or laming your way through, you may ruin a few experiences. By promoting it across the internet you just end up showing every jerk on the internet how to do the dirty trick you just pulled...if you think that doesn't have an effect on the gameplay community you need a reality check.

I still can't believe the nonchalant reaction. Maybe if it was just the movie I was talking about, I'd understand. But I mean, that's like telling a pro football player who's mad he lost on a bum call "Who cares, it's just a game...." Seriously. Go tell Bill Buckner it was "just a game"; let me know how he takes it.

 

[Rayos]

You are comparing sports to a game...where a professional athlete is using their body to perform actions compared to a game controller. On top of that gets paid on performance...Idk about you but i don't know MANY people that get paid THAT well to play games

Your comparison is flawed sorry but i don't think showing someone...Hey look i can jump over this wall without trying...will "MESS UP THE GAME FOR EVERYONE IN THE WORLD THAT SEES IT" ...honestly..let the 12 year olds have their fun and move on

 

[Sandstorm]

I'm sorry...

The problem isn't that they used cheats.

The problem is they used cheats, and then posted their speed runs online for others to try and compete with. Someone looking at 35:37 would go, "Holy crap, how the hell can anyone do it that fast?!"

And truth be told, it can't. Same with the 6:00 video. Anyone who ever brags about beating Zelda in less than 45:00 is not playing the game legitimately. That's the point. This is likened to the story of the guy who said he beat WoW in 3 days, but didn't know how to play WoW when it came time for multi player.

If you're going to cheat, try doing it on the second time through. But if you can't, don't brag or tell anyone about it like you accomplished something. And don't post videos of yourself on the internet, claiming to have gotten the best time possible in the game-- you only got it because you cheated.

This thread isn't about the wrongs of cheating, it's about the wrongs of cheating in competition.

 

[Rayos]

wait...where did they say there was a competition???


"
Tool Assisted - these games are played using a emulator at super slow speeds and save states. The goal is to provide entertainment by showing off game glitches and beating the game as fast as possible

- Uses death as shortcut
- Aims for fastest time
- Uses a game restart sequence
- Abuses programming errors in the game
- Manipulates luck
- Genre: Adventure"


I'm sorry but it says it is to provide entertainment...i'm sorry i don't include ignorance on viewers parts as a reason. You might want to read a bit more next time before coming to conclusions...thank you good day