Originals

[Skiwan]

well its something ive been thinking about, wanted to get a few opinions. Basically, is there anything as good as the "original"? like the original star wars films, or the original alien movie, etc etc.... i dunno, anything with a story, the sequel usually weakens the story, there are exceptions, like terminator 2, but is fairly common that i only ever really like the original concept of something, i feel thats when the writter is at his best, and is not influenced by the success and the arrogance of their first success.

This goes with my love of the Dragonball Z and the Naruto manga, i do not enjoy the anime as much, because it always seems dumbed down, edited, and recycled. However i must say, it is common for Game sequels to be better, however the plot seems to get weaker, a prime example would be Metal Gear solid 2, i know it wasnt the first sequel in the series, but after metal gear solid, the plot was slightly a bit of a let down, but dont get me wrong it is still one of my all time favourates.

I also like the original coke more than any other form.... u get the idea

Maybe im a big fan of original concepts, but what do you think?

 

[Rayna]

I think the reson why many second versions of things go wrong is because they try to whore a concept that people liked alot, try to use it endlessly and it simply dosent usually work. For a second/third/fourth... version to sucess it needs to have the same type of originality but not overuse the concept of the first.
That's what I think.
Also what you said about the writer being blinded by success/money/fame is very true, it seems to get talented and dedicated people to easily forget why they started in the buisness to begin with.

 

[Skiwan]

very true, i understand what you're saying, whoreing of a concept seems to happen a lot these days, just look at the matrix films (i still loved them though )

Also if you look at music, sometimes some bands can produce one amazing first album and the rest is pretty standard and boring. However sometimes they can mature and produce better work, but the majority of the time, i look at the music i like, and i can safely say that i prefer the earlier work of nearly every artist i listen to.

 

[Brim]

Well, stories and storylines are always going to be the best the first time around. The reason that a movie like the matrix is so much better than its two sequels is not because the writer or director or whoever did a bad job making the movies, its because the concept isn't new anymore. I can gaurantee that if the second matrix movie was the first to come out, then the first one came out as a prequel...people would have *****ed that the second was so much better than the first, because it came out first and was the first time that people were introduced to the concept...thats just the way it goes.

*Edit* The same goes for your music too, the first time you hear a band, their sound is going to sound better to you than if you listen to them a thousand times...but that isnt all there is to music, some of it is just timing of good songs or whatever, but another part of it is that the first music you hear of a group is obviously good because it somehow reached your ears. They might not always hit that level of quality again, just because of trial and error.

 

[Rayna]

Well Brim's got a point too, things are more exciting the first time that they come out because they are new. Still I think there is a way to make things interesting even if it isnt new anymore, that should be a challenge to the artist.

 

[Bolteh2]

i didn't bother to read the posts above me because it's too much text, so if this has been said yet, don't freak out:
remakes of original movies suck because: they add a ****load of special effects so dumb people will go like "OMFG THAT ROXORZ" and go see the movie -> so the publishers get teh money, that's all they care about.. the result of all this is: they forget about the story and the movie gets boring
older/original movies had their stories to get money, there was no way to do hightech 3d animations, classic movies are famous because of their stories not because of their "jump in the air, image freezes, camera flashes around that person" stuff..

alien1 pwned, alien4 sucked
texas chainsaw masacre pwned, the remake sucked
star wars 4->6 owned, 1->2 sucked ass (serieus ass, i'm talking about a hugh ass.. pavaroti's ass-like)

oh well, thats how stuff works these days

 

[-JLN-]

I think there's an even balance of good sequels and good originals. I thought Aliens was a much better film than Alien, but on the other hand you have films like Predator 2 If I was to ask most people I know which was better in an original film and its sequel, most would say the orignal whether they really thought that or not, they'll say it just because it's the original. I don't particularly think like that so that might be the reason I don't think the original films are particularly better than their sequels.

 

[Brim]

It's easy to blame your dissapointment in a sequal by blaming it on the writer/director being lazy or not caring enough about the actual story, just money. So much easier than realizing that in fact you are just expecting way too much from them since they already put out a great movie once. Just because someone gets divine inspiration for a movie or game story, doesn't mean that they have the capabilities to do it again and again. And generalizations like, back when movies didn't rely on special effects, are in no way true. Even when technology wasn't as good as it is now for special effects, there were ****ty sequels.

 

[Rayna]

older/original movies had their stories to get money, there was no way to do hightech 3d animations, classic movies are famous because of their stories not because of their "jump in the air, image freezes, camera flashes around that person" stuff..

Yep, these nice visual effects are nowtime entertainment and people are usually more impressed by those than by a worked storyline. They get easily bored of it if it's too "heavy" and lacks of nice eye visual effects to keep theyr attention on the screen.

I like alot when movies look real awesome because I will love how it looks and stuff, it will momentanely eye-impress me, but then if the movie does not impact me in any way I will easily forget about it.

 

[The Cheese]

Also if you look at music, sometimes some bands can produce one amazing first album and the rest is pretty standard and boring. However sometimes they can mature and produce better work, but the majority of the time, i look at the music i like, and i can safely say that i prefer the earlier work of nearly every artist i listen to.

Korn is a great example of a band that once rocked and now pumps out the same old rehashed **** over and over. Of all the music that I listen to I think NIN is the only band that I have ever heard that changes and still brings out something original everytime.

 

[OubliezJe]

Korn is a great example of a band that once rocked and now pumps out the same old rehashed **** over and over. Of all the music that I listen to I think NIN is the only band that I have ever heard that changes and still brings out something original everytime.

If you do or dont like linkin park, they produce something different ever album, but there is a new album coming out with Jay-z which is just going to hurt linkin, i think. So, their previous albums are better than this one coming out.

If i am understanding this correctly, You say what thing did you like that had a sequel to it, but the first was better. First movie that comes to my mind is Mortal Combat.

 

[Eon]

Aliens > Alien

Perfect example. :O

 

[Bolteh2]

If you do or dont like linkin park, they produce something different ever album, but there is a new album coming out with Jay-z which is just going to hurt linkin, i think. So, their previous albums are better than this one coming out.

If i am understanding this correctly, You say what thing did you like that had a sequel to it, but the first was better. First movie that comes to my mind is Mortal Combat.

i beg to differ.. linkin park is the only band i know that released one album, and copied it a couple of times later on, with different lyrics
alot of people will agree on me about this one, linkin park is THE number one band that doesn't show something original

korn obviously changed style over the years, slipknot to, metallica to, soulfly to, limp bizkit to.. but when i listen to a new song by linkin park, i actually hear the first album over and over again

 

[owa]

Hellraiser 2 > Hellraiser.

I'm not gonna argue with your music thoughts, but let me just say that some bands may change, they usually change for the wrong reasons. Look at Metallica, they biaisically tried to prove that even thoguh they are old, they can still rock. Some argue they shouldn't have done this, and I agree, but a few say they should have.

Dream Theater did the same with their Train of Thought album.

Anyways, original is good, but straying from the original concept can be bad. Bands like Tool, slowly progressed into more depth. They evolved with the times, and as they grew, they let their music speak for them. They didn't just jump from Undertow to Lateralus, they brought their fans with them, and slowly let the fans into the evolution of their music.

 

[Tassadar]

I see it as this: the first film/movie/game is usually written out of passion. The writer would develope something so cool, so incredibly awesome that people scream for a sequel. The writer then loses his passion, and is only then writing to make money, then it is less effective. Of course that doesn't apply to everything I could see it applying to a lot of things.

 

[SPIDER-BITE]

I think the reson why many second versions of things go wrong is because they try to whore a concept that people liked alot

That's EXACTLY right u articulate person. Like in the Matrix sequels. (dont get me wrong, im not one of those matrix sequel hating stooges, i love them, jsut noticed whoreing.

 

[RavenTrunks]

LOTR was good all the way though sequals. Well maybe because its from a book, and they filmed all 3 non stop, after 1 they continued on 2 before it even hit theaters. same for 3. Directors like this is what makes movies good, not just for flashy stuff, just good action/story

 

[Deman]

There is one thing that annoys me about originals. I hate it when people claim to be "original" for following some movement first, and anybody who follows is just a poser.

"OMFG I was emo back when it started underground! All you guys are just posers because you think it's cool!"

What the hell? I've heard variations of this statement. Change emo to punk to thug to anything. Hell, you can even insert a certain band in there.

I'm also curious, does anybody know of something they like better than the original? There's quite a few covers of songs I like better than the original, though none come to mind at the moment.