Indeed. It would make a great option if both opponents swooped on each other holding the secondary and a melee struggle would occur. Something like a grab, well, exactly what you describe in an earlier post. This would eliminate the very bothersome random outcome of this situation. Either one hits or the other, and there is no deciding it. Yes this is a good option, that both opponnents catch themselves in mid swoop and start this grab struggle you describe finishing with a heavy kick or punch from the winner, doing more damage than a normal melee attack.
I hate random outcomes because there is no control over them, id much rather like this struggle system.
like all other struggles will be in the future, the struggling players will be invulnerable to all other players.
but the attacking in melee range id keep like i first suggested. I think its as close as it gets to something doable. I think that the melee system that i suggested with this kind of struggle system would be as far is Id like to go in adding new things. The rest is the players resourcefullness and whatever strategies he might develop. But thats it I think. This is the melee system Id like.
I take it you agree with me, with perhaps some small extra things youd maybe like to add. Personally, Id be happy if these things were done by beta 2. Then Id be a happy man, at least melee- wise.
About the automated combo thing, I wouldnt go for it, I still like it better manually. Sure its much harder to do but all the more rewarding to land a 5 hit combo. Im going to add a new thread on flying speed when hit though, see if you can make it a little slower and easier to catch up, but well see.
I think you should get rid of the targetting system all togather. I'm sure there's a down side that I'm not seeing, but if you got rid of the targetting and had left click(primary fire) energy dash you everywhere and left click(secondary fire) attack it would make travel much quicker and make fighting two or three people much easier.
Someone also mentioned something about interacting with the surroundings. Like, kick flipping off of mountains to attack a nearby foe. I'm sure it's nearly impossible, but I'd like to second the motion as it sounds like a great idea.
many ideas are excellent and it would be awesome to have them, but there is also the difficulty of implementing such ideas. But yeah it would be nice to see yourself after being hit in melee to go against a rock and do some kinda special kickflip instead of just flipping in the air, but I dont think esf is in the stage to discuss eye candy. It would be nicer to see a lot of things before asking for a kickflip. Im not saying it would be great, just not very high right now in the priority list, at least I think so.
Also, your the second person complaining about how its hard to fight against more than one person.
I think the lock on system is ok. I dont think you know but you can hit players that are not locked on too. The system is the same only you dont see the box surrounding the player. Besides, lock on system makes it easier to follow around a teleporting opponent or a fast moving one. The lock on system should be left as it is. Besides, fighting to people should be hard, What'd you expect?
You can fight against other people who are not locked on, hell you can even swoop on them too(as long as you are locked on to somebody else) so the lock on system just makes it easier to spot one of your 2 or 3 attackers, so why would you not want it?
Im actually really liking melee atm, when you get good, it really gets more intresting, Its not just swoop, hit, block.. Its much more than that, tactics come into play, u try to get into the persons blind spot so they cannot see you..
I think there should be 2 times of mele atacks, the current one, and just a a barage of kicks and punches that pulls the other person into a melee struggle. If they block, u get pushed back 1 teleport distance but dont take any dmg, u also get stunned for .5 seconds so u cannot imidiatly atack, and use this push back to an advantage...
thats what we have been sorta saying not exactly like that, but alejandroc idea is tops and it would be grand if it were in esf, its fast simple and adds varition, plus with my or similar mele PS ideas it would be tops, Maybe we should post a full out line of the mele idea on the main suggestion forum to see everyones feeling towards it, Becouse now i really think this idea should be used
well, mr gumps suggestion is a good one. It would be the "safe" melee attack were it implemented like he says. It would do less damage, but if blocked youd survive. Still I think it kinda blows cause fights would take too long. SPEED thats the thing, SPEED!
Id rather have it be a quick attack just for extra dmg and more risky. Tell me killjoy if you want to put an thread explaining the full concept of this melee system we worked out and see the popular opinion. Otherwise ill do it.
And if youre blocked you can always teleport safely away.
And yes it is true. I only use swoop to get closer to an enemy I never directly hit them. Im a big teleport fan and even the best cannot keep up to me if I want to. Ive gotten really good at the telep. I just stop my swoop telep behind them and they dont know what hit them. So yeah you can do a lot of things with the current melee system. Sure I like it very much, in fact if they said they wouldnt change a thing it wouldnt hurt so much. Id just like this few improvements done.
Now... my idea is keep it the same how meelee works but if the attack is 1 on 1 and ur facing each other. each oponent is charging each other wouldnt it be a good idea to have the Ki struggle bar and let each oponent click the mouse like mad to get more hits in? By pressing Meeleee you will punch each other and the more times u press the more hits u get in, if u press it at the same time the meelee cancels the other one out. Breaking of this meelee strugle can be dun by pressing left mouse or jump.
meeleeing people behind or at the side when they are aware is fine cos u hit them far but when they are facing one another it just isnt fair because the advanced experianced user will know the tricks of meeleee. atleast with a meelee power bar the n00b can click away like mad and atleast stand a chance.
The whole thing with SSJ, power level etc WILL not effect combat, not even make u faster because thats unfair. But ONLY make ur punches take of more if u get them in.
For one thing, meelee works ONLY at a certain distance; I've been too close to an opponent to meelee them. So I'd be forced to back up, meanwhile they spot me and meelee me instead. Boo. I'm not sure if there's a reasoning, but I'd suggest that it work even better the closer you are. (unless it's just me) Also, sometimes it won't work close-up, because I wasn't charging at the time; a slight annoyance, especially after blocking.
Secondly, when you get WHOPPED by someone from behind, I think it'd be a good idea to have the camera snap to face them (for one thing, it'd be practical, and another, when you're hit that hard, you'll tend to turn and fly backwards anyway). I'm pretty sure that's not an impossible one.
Three! When you're whacked by a meelee attack and firing a blast, you get that beam still attached to your hand, while your flying across the ground. I suppose it'd be difficult to come to another way, since you WERE in the middle of firing, but....well, if in a power struggle, the other person wouldn't have to "struggle" anymore against a fighter not pushing the attack anymore. When just firing a regular attack, it should just either a) explode when the fighter firing it is smacked by meelee, b) fizzle out or c) keep going (break off the beam's connection with the fighter somehow) but be much weaker (I'd say about 50%)
Fourthly....(that's a lot, huh). It isn't so much a direct suggestion, because I don't know of any resolution, but it is an issue I suggest be addressed; at anything over say, 200 ping, it's hard as hell to hit with meelee.
Actually, thinking about it, it coincides with another of my numerous and useless suggestions; slow down the dash (sprint, charge, whatever it's called when, the speed burst when locked onto an opponent) It goes along with the difficulty at high ping; you go flying right past, or miss your range of opportunity. Maybe a double-click on the left mouse would give you the BIG speed boost, and a single would give you a slower one (maybe 50% of it), which would both make meelee targeting easier, and eliminate the problems (at least ease them) at high ping. Plus, it's very jumpy that fast, so it's a real strain on people even SEEING it happen, now.
On a side not, the meelee effects are spectacular; from a distance, the bursts, and you have the cracks on impact, and bouncing off things in meelee is very sharp (at Kami's, bounced a guy like a pinball between the buildings...made my day!) But, a good addition would be that, on the scouter, the indicator of the opponent you've locked onto be different; either another color, have a black dot in the center, anything really, just to distinguish him when you're surrounded.
I guess that's enough for me.....I've got some more forum cruising to do!
OK here is a suggestion it may be similar to another one but im too lazy to read all these people's 14 page suggestions
all good im sure no offense to any1
but here is my idea
for all u die hard DBZ fans you probably played the Playstation version of DBZ... i forget name but it wasnt the GT one or the first 1...
but here is my suggestion
OK When in a swoop if a person has larger KI then you and you are both in swoop flying at eachother and u both have mouse2 held the weakest gets tossed across screen... pretty cool but too simple and to unfair to those just joining server.. but thats good because of the way the power level rises as getting hit by other more stronger players.. this might seem like spamming but it fits into my suggestion so here it goes... ill try to put this in as much moronic terms as i can..
OK You are swooping towards a person that is either still fighting some1 else or is swooping towards you BUT instead of holding mouse2 down to melee what if you had an option to hold mouse1 down and enter a melee struggle type combat
while holding down both charecters go into really fast punch kick action... now here comes the good part.. while in this MS (melee struggle) you are amune to others hitting you.. and also a bar pops up on side much like PS.. but now here is where the relation between this and the Playstation game comes into similarity
WHILE the little yellow bar is on your end of the struggle (you are winning) you have to quickly press mouse2 ( if you dont the bar can very quickly goto the other person's winning side) and a direction in which you would like to hit the person.. for example im in a MS with another charecter.. im winning i quickly hit "mouse2" and hold (d)(default +right key) it knocks the charecter to the right side of me or up or down.. whateve directionr i press.. now the person gets flung and if is not thrown into an object is stung for a good 3 seconds... if strong, longer if charecter is weak... at this time u must quickly press the teleport button (while still locked onto charecter).. the game should automatically know to teleport behind the charecter at this point... NOW you can press mouse 2 to kock the charecter into a different possition lets say tot he right (a) then combo in a chain until my KI runs out or until thrown into the ground or mountain... so lets say i pull this combo motion off and descide to knock the person down (s) i CAN because i chose to because my KI maybe almost ran out.. now depending on how many times i pulled the combo off b4 the person can recover and of coarse depending on my Power level, descides the charecters damage...
here is how the KI running out system will work
while in melee struggle you KI runs low very slowly a little faster than it would while in idle fly mode.... now when knocking the charecter across screen waste a good amount (whatever ESF sees fit if they use this idea) and the teleporting will of coarse use some KI but not as much as u would if u did it while not in this system
i think its a rather good idea if any1 would like me to evaluate or try to explain better ihave no problems with doing that
They'll be implamenting something more advanced in the future, and perhaps it will be something like this. I'm not sure about the PL difference feature... perhaps it should be a toss of the dice with PL as a factor.
Not just PL. Melee struggles should involve PL and SPEED and take place when 2 pkayers melee head to head.
If you want my technical terms they will take your KI pool and depending on how full it is will subtract from your PL, then multiple by 1/10th your speed and that is your melee struggle rating. Ok so heres an example.
Your PL is 1,000,000. However, your KI Pool is 1/2 full. This will reduce your pl to 500,00. Your speed is 150. Divded that by 10 and you get 15. 500,000 multiplies by 15 is 7,500,000 melee struggle rating.
The closer the players are in MSR is how long the ps will last. During the ps each player will slowly take damage until somebody wins, which will result in the loser taking regular melee damage and the tradition fly across the map.
if u read closely, it is 100% my fault i did not make this clearer, that melee struggle is an OPTION by pressing mouse1
sure u can still regularly melee with mouse2 BUT you wont be able to pull melee combos... in order to pull a melee combo u must melee struggle first which is implimented the second u press mouse1 near a charecter
but the purpose is to be able to control you enviornment more
for example hitting a charecter while winning a melee struggle to any location u wish is pretty cool then following up with combos is even better
u can knock him left teleport then Melee struggle again (but this time kiking his ass cause hes knocked out) then toss him left... teleport then ju tknock him to ground
to me this gives yo much more control over the fighting system and shows much more skill if u can pull of several combos
also as u gain more PL the longer ur KI is available and the longer the KI the more combos u can pull!!
Why don't they just have it as if both players swoop at each other and colidie they go into a power struggle with them going super fast with random attacks and the person whos wins the struggle gets the damage taken. Also you probly want to make it also the player who wins takes a tiny bit of damage but I don't know about this.:idea: