Obama or Clinton?

[Arthos]

I don't trust any of them. Not a one. In my mind, any vote, at this point, will not benefit myself or the country. So... yea.

 

[Spunky]

I don't trust any of them. Not a one. In my mind, any vote, at this point, will not benefit myself or the country. So... yea.

How do you figure?

 

[[S]]

Once you go Barack you never go back

 

[sub]

Not really. I know A LOT of people who liked Obama before the pastor scandal thing, but are now convinced Obama is a racist. =/

 

[-Origin]

Oh man, he's just a few letters off.

Anyway.. I'm hoping Obama will win. I'm not really up to date on these elections, so I have some questions..

First, is it Clinton vs Obama in the actual elections yet? Or are these like, preliminaries?

Second, isn't it true that if it becomes Clinton vs Obama, either one will provide America with a president they've never had, cq an African-American or a woman?

 

[sub]

It's impossible for it to be Clinton vs. Obama in the general election. We're in the preliminary stages right now, with each party still choosing who their nominee will be.

The republicans have already chosen McCain as their nominee, although it's not official yet. The Democrats have narrowed it down to two people, Clinton and Obama. At the moment, Obama is leading in popular vote as well as delegate count. I suppose it is possible for either Clinton or Obama to run as an independent if either loses, but realistically, independents have no chance at winning.

 

[-Origin]

So basically, it's going to be McCain vs either Clinton or Obama?

Aren't you all afraid McCain might be elected simply because the conservative part of America will vote for a white man instead of either a woman or an African-American, regardless of what change they plan on bringing?

 

[sub]

Right, it's going to be McCain vs either Clinton or Obama.

As for us being afraid that the conservative part of America will only vote for McCain, I'm not really worried. The conservatives HATE McCain.

 

[-Origin]

Hmm, that's interesting.

As far as the conservatives go, it's choosing for someone they hate, or for a race and gender that have never been in the White House before.

Why exactly do conservatives hate McCain? Bad campaigning and too many promises of change?

 

[sub]

To be honest, I don't even know why they hate him, but they do hate him

In any case, I'm of the opinion that the chances of McCain winning are pretty slim. Bush has kind of ****ed over the entire Republican party, people are unwilling to vote Republican again. In the primaries so far, the democrats have had a much higher turnout rate than the republicans.

 

[-Origin]

But that's not really saying much is it? Aren't those just predictions?

Because if I remember correctly, wasn't Bush "losing" his re-election before he came out on top anyway? I'm not sure if I remember this right, but all the polls had him behind his opponent and he still got re-elected.

 

[sub]

Right, but if 20 million people turn up to vote for democrats in the primaries and 13 million people turn up to vote for the republicans, they're in trouble. McCain could very well win, but the democrats have to **** up pretty badly between now and then.

Source for the numbers

As for how Bush got reelected, I don't know how or why that happened. If he ran for reelection today (which is thankfully impossible), he'd lose by a landslide. His approval rating has been cited by some sources to be as low as 19 percent, which is a record.

 

[-Origin]

This doesn't happen often, but I'm leaving the ESF forums tonight actually having learned something. D:

Thanks for explaining Sub, much appreciated.

 

[[S]]

Not really. I know A LOT of people who liked Obama before the pastor scandal thing, but are now convinced Obama is a racist. =/

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/21/opinion/polls/main3958295.shtml

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-creamer/why-obamas-speech-on-rac_b_92374.html

I think he saved himself.

 

[sub]

I hope so, but those are just two positive articles.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/stumped/2008/03/obama_great_speech_wont_matter_1.html

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/03/18/will-obamas-speech-work/

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/obamas_speech_a_glorious_failu.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/earl-ofari-hutchinson/obamas-race-speech-wont_b_92182.html

http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2008/03/_for_some_clevelanders_barack.html

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080321/NEWS/803210394/-1/NEWS10


If my internet wasn't acting up, I'd post more. Like I said, I know a lot of people who believe Obama is a racist for having attended this church for years and exposing his children to these views. I personally don't, but I can see where their coming from. If you don't believe in what someone is saying, you stop going. Oprah was apart of this church, but she quit.

 

[Chakra-X]

I heard recently that Write was taking out of context and was actually quoting someone.

Either way, I think it's absurd to be swayed so much by someone's pastor. Wright=/=Obama. I don't believe everyone always believe what their pastors believe. A couple of my relatives believes being *** is "wrong". I do not believe this, yet, if I ran for President and a video was played with one of my relatives expressing their views, how is this automatically MY view.

Obama handled that situation very maturely. He did not instantly drop him nor defend his actions. He actually explained himself, like a normal person.

It's amazing how fickle people can get, including myself.

 

[sub]

I heard recently that Write was taking out of context and was actually quoting someone.

Either way, I think it's absurd to be swayed so much by someone's pastor. Wright=/=Obama. I don't believe everyone always believe what their pastors believe. A couple of my relatives believes being *** is "wrong". I do not believe this, yet, if I ran for President and a video was played with one of my relatives expressing their views, how is this automatically MY view.

Obama handled that situation very maturely. He did not instantly drop him nor defend his actions. He actually explained himself, like a normal person.

It's amazing how fickle people can get, including myself.

It wouldn't be considered your view if you ran for president. It's considered Obamas view by some (again, i'm just playing devils advocate) because Obama called Wright his mentor and has gone to the mans church for years as well as subjected his children to these views.

If you called your prejudice cousin your mentor, then you might have a problem.

That being said, I've watched Wright's full speech. I happened to agree with him on a lot of points, and much of what he said was taken out of context in my view.

 

[Chakra-X]

It wouldn't be considered your view if you ran for president. It's considered Obamas view by some (again, i'm just playing devils advocate) because Obama called Wright his mentor and has gone to the mans church for years as well as subjected his children to these views.

If you called your prejudice cousin your mentor, then you might have a problem.

That being said, I've watched Wright's full speech. I happened to agree with him on a lot of points, and much of what he said was taken out of context in my view.

Ah, I see what you're saying. Maybe it's because I haven't been to church in awhile, but I feel people who changed positions because what his pastor said are being distracted. It's just ashame how a sound bite can be blown out of proportion and taken out of context.

Reverend Wright is only one man. He has his own views, opinions, and identity. I think people like Obama have the ability to think "oh, I don't agree with that, but I still will learn from him" and lead their own believes, or else they wouldn't be qualified to lead a country.

Oh and that is not aimed at your devils advocate argument, just to people who are being swayed in general.

 

[sub]

Reverend Wright is only one man. He has his own views, opinions, and identity. I think people like Obama have the ability to think "oh, I don't agree with that, but I still will learn from him" and lead their own believes, or else they wouldn't be qualified to lead a country.

I agree with you man. You need to think for yourself and not take everything a pastor says as gospel.