New Melee Thoughts (QUICK BEFORE IT FILLS UP!)

New Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2003
Messages
422
Best answers
0
I made this thread because A) the other one is damn long and B) I actually read all 7 pages of it, I EARNED the right to make a new thread dammit!

Charge Swooping: I'm with everyone else on this; bad idea. I realize that you want to even the playing field between beams and melee, but as far as I'm concerned it's pretty even as is. True, you can outmanuever a beam if you know what you are doing, but the cost of making a mistake is usually death; most fully charged special beams kill in one hit.

HOWEVER, if a more "even" playing field is what you are aiming for, then what I propose is this; give the player all of his movement abilities while he is charging the swoop at an increased ki cost. Say if you are charging a swoop, and you see someone about to fire a beam at you, you can quickly teleport out of the way, but you will be using 50% more ki per teleport because you were charging a swoop. That way even if you do dodge the beam and initiate melee, you will have a limited ki pool to attack with, and from what I can tell from the meager info we have been given, your opponent might have a much larger ki pool to retaliate with. Regular movement will take up ki like being turboed does, +50%, although I don't know many people who dodge beams with regular turbo movement(maybe falling).

Now for a suggestion that doesn't involve charging. Make swooping immediate, but instead of going top speed from the get go, you start out slow and gradually (but quickly) accelerate to top swooping speed. That would both give the beamer time to hit and the meleer wouldn't have to be annoyed by charging thier swoop. It would also grant whoever swooped first a mobility advantage, something I have been hoping for since 1.0. And if you wanted to take that even further, you could say that whoever was swooping longer will be the one who starts APing if a head on occurs....


Autopunching: I am in the minority on this one; it actually sounds like a good thing. The difference between 1.1 smashes and 1.2 autopunching (from now on referred to as APing) is almost nil; you initiate the same way, you pursue the same way, and you make contact the same way. The only thing that changes is the end result.

Which is a good thing. With autopunching, you (AND your opponent judging from what PCJoe said) have time to set up the next stage of your attack. For example, and this is all from my imagination, you can possibly move to throw your opponent. You might want to deliver a series of punishing blows, or maybe just one or two so you can go back to APing and set up another series of blows. Maybe you want to pull off a barrage of weak attacks that lowers thier ki so you can do a 1.1 smash and start a smash combo. Or maybe your ki is too low to do much of anything, so you beam jump off thier face to get away.

Now all that is assuming your opponent just sits there and takes it; PCJoe has said many times you won't just be sitting there taking like a *****, you will be countering with attacks of your own. I have no idea how this works, but I will speculate at the end of this post.

Too many people are looking at autopunching the wrong way; it's exactly like 1.1 insta-smashing, only it lets you set up a more complex and potentially more damaging offensive.


Speculation: AP struggling; most likely. It seems logical that when you start autopunching, you will start a melee engagement with your opponent. The struggle time will probably be partially dependant on PL. When your opponent eventually wins the struggle, the engagement ends. If you were APing, an animation plays where your opponent blocks a few punches then starts APing you. If you were executing some kind of special attack, maybe a series of harder blows/beams/whatever, your opponent blocks the rest of the attack and you separate with a .8 sec delay before you can swoop again (kinda like blocking). That way your opponent can choose to swoop at you and start APing, but you can quickly teleport if you want to avoid it.

More to come as I think and dream....

Ah...ahaha...I almost forgot...2 on 1's. Imagine; two fighters duking it out, a Goku vs a Buu. Goku, having a lower starting PL is obviously losing. His teammate, a Trunks, sees this and swoops in to help. Contact is made, PCJoe's magical bone attatching code takes over and suddenly Goku and Trunks are both attacking Buu, both a little off the Buu's left and right but wailing away straight at him. Trunks is APing while Goku is finishing his 3 hit combo, then starts APing as Trunks starts a 4 hit combo...but wait, Buu's PL advantage has overtaken the two Saiyans, and now Buu's starts APing them BOTH, then takes the oppotunity to quickly smash one of them away and start in on the remaining Saiyan.

Basically what I am saying is when a 2 on 1 is started, the fighter that joined the fight last is nothing more than a peripheral; his APing adds no stun time, just allows him to charge up to execute other attacks(but no smashes). Basically until that Buu dies or wins the AP struggle, there is nothing the Trunks can do short of killing Buu to end the fight. Goku can still smash, throw, etc. as like normal though.

But wait there's more. If you decide to 2 on 1 someone, you better hope no one from the other team decides to help his teammate, because when he hits the brawl he will be targeting you, and ONLY you, he will be APing first and he will have a ki advantage.

More to come as I continue to dream....
 
Active Member
✔️ HL Verified
🚂 Steam Linked
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Mar 25, 2003
Messages
1,092
Best answers
0
shouldnt this be in suggestions?
 
New Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2003
Messages
355
Best answers
0
this should be in suggestion and if you read it all on the main page is says its most probely going to be changed
 
Moving with Sonic Speed
Retired Forum Staff
✔️ HL Verified
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Jan 9, 2003
Messages
4,534
Best answers
0
Froman... he didn't say you would be countering. He said you wouldn't be sitting there taking it. He hasn't gone into that phase with us yet.

And stop jumping to conclusion about swooping and autopunching. Let them tell us how it is all going to work and let us play it first before "correcting" it.
 
New Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2002
Messages
909
Best answers
0
Ok, thats a pretty long post, now if people read your post , they should understand melee much more clearly.


Melee charging :
As for the melee charging, esf want to move away from the swooping around like a bunch of 10 year olds style, and make it more dbz style.

Teaming up
The teaming up in melee may sound unfair, but not many people work as a team and tend to find there own enemy to fight.
And if you can't handle 2, then you ask your team mates to help you :]
 
New Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2003
Messages
422
Best answers
0
Sonic Boyster said:
Froman... he didn't say you would be countering. He said you wouldn't be sitting there taking it. He hasn't gone into that phase with us yet.

And stop jumping to conclusion about swooping and autopunching. Let them tell us how it is all going to work and let us play it first before "correcting" it.
I won't stop jumping to conclusions until they release more info. I am stating my opinion based on what limited info they gave us. Since when is it against forum rules to guess?

More to the point, what about my suggestions don't make sense/wouldn't work in a game, and why? All you are doing is barging in and yelling "STOP GUESSING STOP GUESSING!" for no good reason.

Also, didn't PCJoe WANT us to give him suggestions for replacing the charge swoop?

I didn't know giving opinions was so offensive. Try keeping yours to yourself.
 
New Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2003
Messages
20
Best answers
0
Abe Froman said:
I won't stop jumping to conclusions until they release more info. I am stating my opinion based on what limited info they gave us. Since when is it against forum rules to guess?

More to the point, what about my suggestions don't make sense/wouldn't work in a game, and why? All you are doing is barging in and yelling "STOP GUESSING STOP GUESSING!" for no good reason.

Also, didn't PCJoe WANT us to give him suggestions for replacing the charge swoop?

I didn't know giving opinions was so offensive. Try keeping yours to yourself.
Yeah, I agree with you Froman, some of these moderators can be ignorant sometimes. Sonic don't go tell other people to stop making "assumptions and conclusions" when they haven't fully seen the melee system when you talk **** like this. http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=31605&page=1 post #7 "Charged Swoops sound absolutely retarded if you wanted to hit someone you would have to charge just enough swoop to reach them? What if they move? Yippee." Yeah, I bet PcJoe really feels good when guys like you call one of their ideas retarded. I also thought you just recalled saying no making assumptions, well what do you call that?...... And don't go giving me this I know more than you crap, cause I doubt you don't know more than anyone else of us, otherwise you wouldn't be saying that, if you knew it and I also wonder why, I didn't see your name in any of the melee videos. Yeah, I know I'm going get a warning for "being off topic" blah blah blah. Soo...... On topic.

Abe, I also did mention something about a 2 on 1 before, and I still think that would be a cool idea. If for example you were krillen or piccolo, and your fighting vegeta or something other strong character, and then suddenly another one of vegeta's teamates attack you. Your screwed. So why not let Krillen and Piccolo have a tri-form techinque where they can split themselves in half to battle the other teamate? It would also balance the game since that is something saiyans can't do. In order to balance it more, they should probably take a large ki cost, and only let them execute the tri-form once every 2 min or something. I know that can be fine tuned by the ESF Gods.
 
Moving with Sonic Speed
Retired Forum Staff
✔️ HL Verified
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Jan 9, 2003
Messages
4,534
Best answers
0
ShiftyOliver said:
Yeah, I agree with you Froman, some of these moderators can be ignorant sometimes. Sonic don't go tell other people to stop making "assumptions and conclusions" when they haven't fully seen the melee system when you talk **** like this. http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=31605&page=1 post #7 "Charged Swoops sound absolutely retarded if you wanted to hit someone you would have to charge just enough swoop to reach them? What if they move? Yippee." Yeah, I bet PcJoe really feels good when guys like you call one of their ideas retarded. I also thought you just recalled saying no making assumptions, well what do you call that?...... And don't go giving me this I know more than you crap, cause I doubt you don't know more than anyone else of us, otherwise you wouldn't be saying that, if you knew it and I also wonder why, I didn't see your name in any of the melee videos. Yeah, I know I'm going get a warning for "being off topic" blah blah blah. Soo...... On topic.
It was cute that you decided to quote one of my older posts on the topic, and you were almost right in a sense, but there are a couple of differences: 1.) That wasn't an assumption, that was a legitimate statement. Charged swooping eliminates locking on to your opponent. If you aren't locked on to your opponent and he swoops out of range your swoop may end before you reach him. That is a fact. Saying that it sounded retarded was an opinion, not a fact or an assumption. However, I did present the assumption later on in that paragraph that you might be able to swoop through somebody, but that was presented as an unlikely plausibility. 2.) I didn't try to tell them how it *should* be done because they said it was subject to change and they are still hammering on the system.

I was just telling Froman not to get so speculative because he is presenting these ideas to all of the suggestions forum in their own thread. He is going to start making people start thinking that stuff will work the way he has presented it because it sounds good, when not all of it does. I don't condone people going off and telling everybody that "this is probably what they mean by this" when nobody has any idea.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top