My feedback on ESF

New Member
✔️ HL Verified
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
25
Best answers
0
Since the team is working on a new version I think I should do my job as a fan and give feedback.

Well it has been about two years and I decided to return and see what happened to my favourite DBZ mod.

Unfortunately, although still a very very solid mod I see that it still has problems preventing it to be very very popular. Especially melee.

1. Get rid of advanced melee, it is simply nonesense, maybe a break for players but that's all. Turned based luck system is not suitable for this game...

2. Movement:

- Swooping: One button swooping is a must plain and simple, tapping buttons making the game unresponsive even under little lag.

- Moving takes too much energy. By swooping you can finish your ki very fast (I know you are trying to limit it because it is teh main dynamic of figting BUT please read the melee part and you will see that there are other ways). Make gliding, swoop jumps one button.

- You may also think of adjusting teleporting range and speed.

3. Melee:

Melee needs serious improvement:
Kick kick kick kick kick kick ... Right Now the game is a kick fest and very repetetive with little strategy but needs lots of practice. You need a drastic change.

What I am going to propose is a way to merge advanced melee and basic melee in real time.

- Put a power bar for the melee just like the one for beam attacks. When player pushes a mouse button let the bar fill and when the button is released the character will throw a punch or kick.
- The power is determiden by the level of the power bar just like in the beams(and of course the current pl of the player, the higher pl make even the small energy punches powerful so the player may throw several punches back to back).
- The punch/kick will be effective in a small range. The player may automatically swoop fast for a small distance and if the defender is on the path he/she is hit.

- This way not only the player will choose fast but weak punches or strong but slow ones but also you will see the effect of the pl difference much more since right now even a weakling can kick a high pl player again and again.
- Another plus of this approach is instead of coding the maximum allowed back to back kick throws, you can adjust the recovery time and the power and time needed to make a throwing kick or punch so that we see more dynamic but meningfull fights.

Defense, Deeefense, Deeeefense:

Well the blocking function in game is nearly useless. You can not block unless you look directly to the opponent and even the slightest lag will make it frustrating. Also even the weak players can block very high pl players attacks. Assuming you changed the punching dynamics as abouve:

- Make blocking easier BUT recovery harder.
- The blocks effectiveness will also be determined the defender's ki and attacker's punchs/kicks strength.

- As an advanced move let the defender be able to hold attackers arm or leg and throw him if he/she times teleport right. :cool:



Well, I 'm going to sleep right now I may continue tomorrow ... :tired:
 
NOT IN THE MANGA™
★ Black Lounger ★
✔️ HL Verified
🚂 Steam Linked
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
3,276
Best answers
0
I dislike the one button swooping either.
 
The Brain Freezer
✔️ HL Verified
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
1,374
Best answers
0
The melee situation has been properly studied by the team. There is an advanced melee being developed at the moment as all know, so lets wait for its full release before saying it should go out. Try watching the last update until the end, so you can get an very small idea of how maybe, it will look like.
Also check the adv.melee thread:
http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=73135

BTW, I agree swooping takes to much KI, it makes fights get shorter, and requires players to charge way to many times.
 
Freelance Mappzor
✔️ HL Verified
🚂 Steam Linked
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Nov 21, 2003
Messages
17,065
Best answers
0
BTW, I agree swooping takes to much KI, it makes fights get shorter, and requires players to charge way to many times.
You know thats actually called KI management. And beeing to easy to keep your KI is the reason why pros dont like to go SSJ ^^

@vegetaspride

Your melee idea of hitting when you let go of the button will never work. You can see test how impossible it is to let go of the button at the exact precise moment to make the hit connect. To test it out go to 1.2, dissable advanced melee (yes you can do that) and try to press it at the right moment to make a hit. Then imagine the lag from ping added onto that.


As for the unresponsiveness. The open beta allready has a swoop button >.>
 
Last edited:
Beta Tester Squad
✔️ HL Verified
🚂 Steam Linked
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Jan 26, 2005
Messages
3,089
Best answers
0
you sure you even played Open beta ?or watch any updates latly?esf 1.2.3 it's old , and that ecx addon on esf dosent makes it ESF
 
The Brain Freezer
✔️ HL Verified
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
1,374
Best answers
0
You know thats actually called KI management. And beeing to easy to keep your KI is the reason why pros dont like to go SSJ ^^
Fans like dragonball games that resemble dragonball. You dont see goku geting tired after making 3 or 4 swoops in the series but you do in esf. On the other hand, in the series, you see goku geting completelly tired after making a kamehameha, and that also happens in esf. So the fact is, swoop takes to much KI. Players would maybe apretiate the double of the actual swooping for the same KI. Its all imo of course.
 
Freelance Mappzor
✔️ HL Verified
🚂 Steam Linked
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Nov 21, 2003
Messages
17,065
Best answers
0
In Dragonball you see Goku getting the daylights beat out of him and he still stands back up.

In Dragonball people dont respown. In Dragonball 2 people fight eachother while the others stay put and watch. In Dragonball runing out of KI means death. Should i go on?
 
The Brain Freezer
✔️ HL Verified
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
1,374
Best answers
0
In dragonball goku's full KI lasts for 5 hours of fighting (swooping, melee, blasts etc). Do you think that 8 or 7 swoops for a full KI bar is to much?
 
Freelance Mappzor
✔️ HL Verified
🚂 Steam Linked
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Nov 21, 2003
Messages
17,065
Best answers
0
If you take out the recharging factor. ESF becomes nothing more than a fly round and hope you hit something game.

Right now KI controll is a factor that greatly decides betwean you getting killed or you killing the other guy. 80% of the games skill comes from KI controll. The rest 15% is melee with 5% luck.
 
The Brain Freezer
✔️ HL Verified
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
1,374
Best answers
0
Have you noticed how much KI does it takes for a "swoop + generic beam charging"? (of course you did, you are staff). As far as I remember it reaches or passes the 50%, that's way to exagerated. I'm not saying "be radical", I am saying "be ponderative", give it a lil more KI if many agree with me.

PS: Just made the test, its almost 50%, I'd say 40-45%:
 
Last edited:
Now with Kung-Fu action!
✔️ HL Verified
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
May 13, 2004
Messages
1,761
Best answers
0
It's all risk vs reward.

You could use that extra KI to try and get the upper hand but it could go horribly wrong (as it often does with me) and you find yourself jumping away trying to get far enough to recharge.
 
Freelance Mappzor
✔️ HL Verified
🚂 Steam Linked
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Nov 21, 2003
Messages
17,065
Best answers
0
Have you noticed how much KI does it takes for a "swoop + generic beam charging"? (of course you did, you are staff). As far as I remember it reaches or passes the 50%, that's way to exagerated. I'm not saying "be radical", I am saying "be ponderative", give it a lil more KI if many agree with me.

PS: Just made the test, its almost 50%, I'd say 40-45%:
Remember that the stamina system in the open beta is not finished. As stamina will take some of your KI burden when its donne.
 
Beta Tester Squad
✔️ HL Verified
🚂 Steam Linked
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Jan 26, 2005
Messages
3,089
Best answers
0
the ki burn idee it's more of a chalenge for players, if the game din't have powerup then the ki burn will be slower but if you run out of ki you die, this way it keeps balance out, you can bouth recharge and get more power, shot many beams and who said that Goku can only swoop for 5 h what the hell he can swoop as long as he wants to
 
New Member
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
1,315
Best answers
0
well that swooping thing i can givea LOL about it :/
If you want you can make it like this
every character has a determined amount of KI
and as an example we put Goku having the largest amount of KI
well now in Dragonball goku can fly around as long as he wants and he will never get tired... so how about it's like this
HP and KI are rised up VERY MUCH so that it's not so much of "Hey look i've got so much KI now let me send you a thousand kamehamehas per second and i'll kill you" but it's like Attacks become weaker or something and they require less KI and players become stronger so that there can be cool battles not like one match turns into less then a minute
 
The Brain Freezer
✔️ HL Verified
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
1,374
Best answers
0
Remember that the stamina system in the open beta is not finished. As stamina will take some of your KI burden when its donne.
I knew stamina would take KI burden when defending a beam, like it was shown before. But if it is implemented for every low KI situation I think that will do it. Its kinda of a cool concept actually:

"Out of KI? wanna continue fighting without stoping? It will cost you." - Yeah I'd like that.
 
Freelance Mappzor
✔️ HL Verified
🚂 Steam Linked
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Nov 21, 2003
Messages
17,065
Best answers
0
@[email protected]: Not really like that

@Dragonball: In DBZ they die and its over (well untill they are wished back that is) but in ESF you just respown. So you shoot off all the beams you want, kill 10 people and then you die from lack of KI. WOuld still give you an end score of 100 to 10

@John: What? Noone even thought for a split second to remove powerup.
 
New Member
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Jul 9, 2003
Messages
1,388
Best answers
0
I still want to see the game become one that people have an end to, I mean there are not deathmatch games out there that have no end, its always a frag limit till victory. like 30/50 kills, new match, new server. And ESF is a Team/Deathmatch

I say for that cap the powerlevel so it gives players no incentive to just be 100+kills and with a rediculous powerlevel for those coming in...
 
Freelance Mappzor
✔️ HL Verified
🚂 Steam Linked
💻 Oldtimer
Joined
Nov 21, 2003
Messages
17,065
Best answers
0
RT those options are all in.

Just that everyone dissables them.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top