Lucifer the Satan VS Anubis [spoiler]

[Grega]

Yes I do. My beliefs ARE fact. That's the whole point of having a religion. And I can back them up scientifically as well, performing the taboo of applying modern day science to religious concepts and events, yielding entirely pluasible conclusions. I also have seen documented, photographic proof of areas where Biblical events having ocurred in certain areas that cannot be scientifically explained, and can only mean that higher forces were, and are at work, precisely as told in the Bible. You assume too much my friend. You assume I am a blind follower, although believing strictly through faith is perhaps even more worthy of respect than my own rationalizing.

Im also a raised hardcore christian. But in time i came to my own conclusions. Like reincarnation. Its not in teh bible yet there are various documented proofs of it. Like people remembering stuff from te past lives. Ofcourse some phobias were also documented that ocured because of teh way of death in teh past life. I remember reading about a guy who had claustrophobia ever since he was born. Under hypnosis the found out he was buried by a landslide in his past life.

But saying somehting like "What i believe is true and whoever thinks otherwise is wrong" is kinda onesided.

Aside from the fact that we know jack **** about what happens to us after death other than the stories with near death experiences... waint they didnt actually die. For all we know all those storys of bright light can be nothing more than a dream they were having before their brain went offline. But since they were brought back to life due to medical help they simply just woke up from that dream. Ever had a dream that felt so real that even the pain of kicking a stone felt real? I once had a drean where i hurt my head and i woke up with a small headache.

Yes i belive in what the bible says. But i also believe that there are other fish in the sea. Lets face it. Our religion is the yungest. And till now its teh bloddiest. More people died because of christianity in the past than in WW2.

The biggest achievement of religion in all cultures was keeping controll of the masses though. If people beieve that breaking the 10 amendments will make them eternally rot in hell. They will folow them. Its like the santa story "If you are good the whole year round Santa will bring you a gift for christmass"

Humans use believes for mind controll. And anyone who disagrees with that is instantly labeled liar or worse.

There were a lot of religions befor ours. There were a lot of sightings in other religions not just ours. Just cause a book humans wrote says something doesnt mean its true. Since humans are known to not allways tell the trouth. How do you know that half the bible wasnt made up by someone just to enhance the other half? It wasnt written by god himself. It was written by humans. And than through history translated many times. A lot of alterations were possible through history. Ever thought of that? Especially in the era when the church was corupt and killing anyone who didnt share their beleives or just simply didnt want to pay up. Those times did exist. Ask any priest to confirm it if you wish.

If you wish to continue this conversation id suggest we use PMs. Since if this goes on the thread is getting closed for religious talk XD

 

[-Origin]

If this conversation starts getting into PM's, include me. This sh*t is hilarious. Wouldn't want to miss it.

 

[kam!]

Yes I do. My beliefs ARE fact. That's the whole point of having a religion. And I can back them up scientifically as well, performing the taboo of applying modern day science to religious concepts and events, yielding entirely pluasible conclusions. I also have seen documented, photographic proof of areas where Biblical events having ocurred in certain areas that cannot be scientifically explained, and can only mean that higher forces were, and are at work, precisely as told in the Bible. You assume too much my friend. You assume I am a blind follower, although believing strictly through faith is perhaps even more worthy of respect than my own rationalizing.

I wouldn't call myself religious in the classical sense, but I know for sure that it doesn't matter if ANY of the things in the bible really happened.
The point of having a religion, is guiding you through your life, giving tips on how to behave.
That's the basic of every religion. It doesn't matter if Jesus or God or anyone in the bible existed.
It wouldn't matter if the bible was nothing more than fiction. What counts is how you live your life.
Even my religion teacher says, that most of the things in the bible aren't fact, what counts is the message that it delivers.
And what I said can be applied to any religion, so this is no J-dude/christianity bash sort of thing.

 

[Almighty_Gir]

no need for this to go to PM's. if people want to discuss this in a civilised manner, that's fine. the moment anyone steps the line warnings and threads closing will happen.

 

[J-Dude]

Hey, I'm just saying. I've seen some pretty unbelievable things, and I know the science that proves it all possible. I am quite firm in my beliefs and more than accept them as true. And if I believe my religion to be true, then that automatically means I don't believe the others that do not relate to mine. Therefore, I do not consent to the notion of religious uncertainty, in which we respect all religions as possibility, not knowing which if any is true. In my mind there is only one truth, and that holds above any mortal laws or squabbles. I am quite satisfied in my own ideals and see no need to pretend to sympathize with the non-believers as if MY religion were subject to question, which in my mind, it is not.

 

[Almighty_Gir]

but therein lies the point. in YOUR mind it is not subject to question. however, that is not a firm basis for proposing any form of argument, since i would be based solely on your belief, and not on fact.

here's an interesting question for you J-Dude.

Hitler is considdered to be one of the worst men in history. Yet, he brought his entire country out of poverty, as one of the worst hit during the great depression, and motivated everyone in that country to work, to prosper, and to succeed. in his eyes, everything he did was right. he BELIEVED that his people, his pure race, were the only ones deserving of the world, and he fought for that belief. it was unquestionable in his mind, just as yours is in your mind.

how are you, any different?

 

[kam!]

but therein lies the point. in YOUR mind it is not subject to question. however, that is not a firm basis for proposing any form of argument, since i would be based solely on your belief, and not on fact.

here's an interesting question for you J-Dude.

Hitler is considdered to be one of the worst men in history. Yet, he brought his entire country out of poverty, as one of the worst hit during the great depression, and motivated everyone in that country to work, to prosper, and to succeed. in his eyes, everything he did was right. he BELIEVED that his people, his pure race, were the only ones deserving of the world, and he fought for that belief. it was unquestionable in his mind, just as yours is in your mind.

how are you, any different?

Wow that was pretty good.
Well as said you close your mind for everything that dooesn't fit into your view of the world.
I remember you posting something about stamping certain people as wrong, simply because they don't share your view.
But that means that you'll never move forward. Everyday I meet people that show me some aspect of my view that was wrong,
my mindset constantly evolves.
But somebody as close minded as you will always stay in the same spot, labelling everyone as wrong that tries to show you something different.

To move a bit closer back to the topic, I'd say Anubis is just as real as Lucifer, both are parts of a religion,
and the fact that christianity exists doesn't make Lucifer any more real than Anubis.
If some Egyptian read this thread he would maybe say something like
"Lucifer: entity of the christian religion who doesn't exist

vs.

Anubis: the great decider of the afterlife, who weights your life. He decides if you are damned for the rest of your after life or not.

pretty clear to me."

^^

Oh and I don't think Lucifer antagonises god, he simply tempts humans to do teh evil stuff.

 

[MC]

Anubis: the great decider of the afterlife, who weights your life. He decides if you are damned for the rest of your after life or not.

I don't think Anubis had a role like that. He was the guardian of the dead (protected the recently decease), a guide of the dead (helped the recently deceased find their way), caretaker of bodies (cleansed bodies after they had died), and decided who among the recently deceased could become a star.

Between Lucifer and Anubis, I would say that Anubis would win hands down. Being a guardian of the dead most likely had it's share of battles against powerful foes.

 

[Killface]

Yes I do. My beliefs ARE fact. That's the whole point of having a religion. And I can back them up scientifically as well, performing the taboo of applying modern day science to religious concepts and events, yielding entirely pluasible conclusions. I also have seen documented, photographic proof of areas where Biblical events having ocurred in certain areas that cannot be scientifically explained, and can only mean that higher forces were, and are at work, precisely as told in the Bible. You assume too much my friend. You assume I am a blind follower, although believing strictly through faith is perhaps even more worthy of respect than my own rationalizing.

No.. no they arent. If your beliefs in a god are true fact. Then prove to me right now that he exists... right now, do it.

Do that task for me, and i'll stfu.

 

[J-Dude]

@Onslaught: Lol, oh please man, do you think I hadn't anticipated such a response? As a Christian, I do not recognize other religions as possible truths, but that hardly means I should treat such people as inferior. I do not accept the notion that my God's existence is a mere "possibility" held by other mortals here who are too unsure to accept what is. However, whilst I do not recognize such religions, I am by no means intolerant. I abide (mainly) by the ten commandments issued forth by God and I have equal friendly conversation and associate frequently with non-believers. I honestly do not care about their religious preferences. If they want to damn themselves, that's their decision and not mine. I do pity those who reject God though. Really, I just wish others saw as clearly as I have seen, but I do not hold it against those who choose to look away. Love thy neighbor, as they say.

@Walmart Security:

Alright, you're on.

Firstly: I have seen documented footage shown by Christian explorers searching in the Middle East for Mt. Sinai, the place where Moses provided the Ten Commandments after freeing the Hebrew slaves from Egypt. The Mountian originally believed to be Sinai didn;t match the descriptions in the Bible, but there was another that look far more likely. The explorers came to the mountian to find the entire thing behind a barbed wire-fence showing rather serious looking "Restricted Area: No Trespassing" signs along it. The explorers waited until nightfall and then cut out a section of the fence and made their way in. Their findings seemed to be dead on.

The first thing noticed was the mountaintop itself. It was black, seemingly charred. This is believed to be where Moses spoke with God and where the Ten Commandments were made. At the foot of the mountain, where the Hebrew followers congregated, there was found a tall formation of rock standing straight up, with a noticable crack in it. They also noticed areas leading from the rock to the bottom of the mountian which showed evidence of water erosion. This is where they believed Moses used his staff to crack the rock and provide water for the thirsty Hebrews.

I know there is more, but it's a little fuzzy at the moment.

Anyway, unfortunately, the explorers were captured by the Saudi Arabian government for trespassing and brought to a nearby town for interrogation. The captors accused them firstly of being Jewish, who apparently were not popular in the region. They were not sure how to escape the situation, but then, almost out of nowhere, one of the explorers pointed to another and said "He's a doctor!". Not knowing exactly what this would accomplish, the explorer was speechless as one of the interrogaters rounded on him, advancing. He repeated "Doctor". And then he lifted his eyelid and pointed to a nasty raw sore, and said "Can you fix this?"

Apparently, medical provisions in the area were very hard to come by, and not knowing what else to do, the explorer reached into his bag and offered him some pills. The interrogator took them without another word, grabbed a hanful, MUCH more than the recommended dosage and stuffed them into his mouth. His fellows did the same, and hardly 10 minutes later, the captors were sound asleep on the floor, having been completely knocked out by the medicine. The explorers made it back safely and lived to tell their story and provide the images they obtained. Sound a bit like a certain someone WANTED them to get back safely and spread the good word?

I have a few other things if you're still not convinced.

 

[Almighty_Gir]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anubis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan
http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Anubis
http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Satan

i will henceforth use everything from those four pages as a basis for my arguments.

 

[Hitokiri]

A religion is not an arrangement of facts. A religion is an arrangement of things you are told to believe; hence, "faith." Faith is essentially baseless, devoted belief in some precept.

Anyway here's a history lesson for you guys:

When Christianity took over Europe after the fall of Rome, people were barely Christians. They were converted pagans. They were still afraid of imps and satyrs and nature gods. All of the holidays you observe today as a Christian were simply pagan holidays that were converted by the Church, for example the festival of "Saturnalia" was converted into "Christmas." It was originally celebrated on January 6th or something, then they moved it (arbitrarily) to December 25th.

The Papacy up until beyond the Renaissance was a corrupt joke. I was raised a Catholic, but after reading what happened back then, I don't know how anybody can be a Catholic... unless of course they were raised and indoctrinated to be one, which of course is the key to making anybody believe anything (look at any major faith-based religious following). In any case, all the early Popes did was hoarde money, burn and torture heretics (among them people who attempted to use REASON, the OPPOSITE of faith, like Copernicus), censor books and education, start wars with Duchys, and arrange massive orgies. The Pope SOLD "salvation," in the form of indulgences. Instead of being made to pray or repent people could simply buy away their sins, and that among other reasons was why the Church ended up owning half (probably more) the wealth in Europe at the time. The cardinals, abbots and priests were no better. Monasteries were filled with the bastard children of horny monks. The entire reason Luther started the Protestant reform was because of how immensely corrupt he had seen the Church to be, and he wasn't a tightwad. It had become a joke, even to common people back then, how bad things were. Considering this line of men is supposed to be anointed the closest to Christ, these holiest of holy men, it gives me due reason to question the veracity of the Christianity.

The only reason it survived, IMO, was because life was miserable and the idea of an eternity in happiness kept people going. Furthermore, it kept people in line, although back then it really didn't do a great job of it at all when you consider the wanton rape, murder, corruption, infidelity, and overall level of violence going on at the time. Back in the day Christians were fed to the lions. Now it was Christians feeding other people to the lions, starting wars and vendettas. Peter, the first Pope, lived in poverty. Now the Popes were the richest and most foul men in the world. I'm sure Jesus would've been very proud...

All that, and the fact that the book constantly contradicts itself as well as reality. Originally the Bible was treated as 100% truth. Now, in the wake of scientific discoveries that discredit things like the world being made in seven days, religious apologists are saying to treat it as a metaphor. Erm, okay then. So I guess all that time that we were treating it as canon pages of reality, we were dead wrong, and we changed our minds? What does that tell you about the faith?

People hadn't developed logic well enough. It was enough for them that "In the beginning, God created the Heaven and the Earth." It says it right there, on page one of the book that God himself.... says he wrote.

God---->book---->God

It's called a circular argument, which is utterly meaningless. The Church, instead of fostering the growth of human knowledge, has since early times (and imo STILL does if you look at creationists and intelligent design) done nothing but attempt to suppress it... because it seems science and reason have been nothing but enemies to the baseless "truths" of the Church.

And lastly, study of old texts has shown that the infamous great lake of fire, Hell, is more than likely an invention of the Church rather than a teaching of Christ. Look it up. Damnation of the soul was just an ingenius control mechanism for making people want to believe, and for Christians to still make that old condescending statement, that they offer their "pity," is laughable if not mildly insulting.

I write this for others, not necessarily JDude. I understand that JDude is a born Christian, is likely surrounded by Christian family and friends, and has done nothing but reinforced all of that business in his mind. There is precious little belief-changing that happens through the internet, especially when it comes to religion, and you guys really shouldn't even bother trying. However I will say that anybody, regardless of religion, who attempts to say they've got it all figured out, should really take a long hard look at themselves, at history, at science, and at the world in general.

That's my 3 cents, anyway.

 

[Almighty_Gir]

couldn't have said it better myself.

i should probably note, i wasn't trying to change JDudes beliefs, i was trying to get him to actually think, and open his mind a little.

*shrug*

 

[Grega]

Well the people living in the area where i am originated form Russian parts of europe. Basically we came from teh north east. And settled here. I know from history that the people who came to theese lands were all pagans. There were some kings and all that crap. Well after a while aliances were forged with the people who lived in neighburing areas. In any case some of those "allies" were also christians. My ancestors were lateron labeled barbarians only cause of their believes and were forced to adopt christianity. The leaders were killed aswell as anyone who didnt want to convert. During those times the church ruled with an iron fist and a bloody sword that stroke down anyone who wasnt like them.

Even though im proud to be a christian. I know for a fact that my faith spilled more blod than any other in the history of this planet. Thats the only thing im ahsamed about my faith. Thats also why i refuse to be a lackie of the church. Since believe it or not. The church is a human invention. Even if it does spread religion and is the place where people gather in teh name of god. Its still an invention of humanity. And be honest. Name one person who had as much power as the church has and has not abused it.

Just folowing what you are told by people doesnt necesairily mean its true. Then again maby you can explain howcome the most pedophile afairs are a matter of the church itself. Ever wonder why people who serve the lord turn away like that.

If not ill tell you. Its BECAUSE they are hunams. Humans translated teh bible thus i say dont trust every exact word of it. Even if most of it was original. I dare to say that a lot of it was changed through history. Especialy in the dark ages where the church did anything to gain more welth and power.

Believes are a good thing. It keeps us under controll and it gives us teh will to do something we believe in. But blindly folowing the words of humans is wrong. Blinly folowing human words with all your believes results in suicide bombings.

J-Dude honestly i admire your faith. I know for myself that i dont have half of yours. The only thing i say is that every christian should think twice or even three times before they start to believe something the church says. Cause as you state now. If teh Vatican starts anouncing that they found another chapter of the bible where it says to kill anyone who doesnt believe in our god , would you really do that? I admit my example was extreme. But stuff like that is hapening round the world. People killing themselves who firmly believe they will be rwearded depending on how many others they kill in the process. Religion can do that and even more. And the more people blindly trust teh leaders of that religion the more possible it is that such an event will ocour.

Christianity has already proven taht during the dark ages. And the old Roman faith has proven that during the time christianity was formed.

With that said. Does it really mather if Anubis and Lucifer are real or not. You take the ancient Egyptian god and the powerless snake (lucifer) who can only talk people into doing evil stuff. And say they both have some kind of power. I think the angel looses to the god.

(Yes acording to the bible Lucifer/Satan has no power whatsoever. All he can do is try to konvince people into freely doing what he wants. He doesnt have the power to do anything else exept try to make people, who have free will, do evbil stuff. So that they can be thrown away for there deeds and land in his relm so he can laugh at them for even listening to him.)

 

[Sicron]

Sigh, this is exactly why religion threads are somewhat of a taboo on these forums. People keep whining about what they believe, and what is true and what is not. Final answer: Nobody knows for another, do you believe in God? Believe in it. Do you believe in Anubis? Believe in it.

But for CRYING out loud, stop the damn religious talk and act like a grown up already. And this is more towards Jdude, seriously, believe what you want. But keep it outside of these forums, religious threads bring nothing but unwanted trouble and closed threads on these forums.

So let's get right back on topic, Which one would win a fight Satan or Anubis. Fiction or not.

I personally would think Satan would win, being exact the opposite of god, he would have equal powers. While Anubis is only God of the underworld/dead.

 

[Grega]

Sigh, this is exactly why religion threads are somewhat of a taboo on these forums. People keep whining about what they believe, and what is true and what is not. Final answer: Nobody knows for another, do you believe in God? Believe in it. Do you believe in Anubis? Believe in it.

But for CRYING out loud, stop the damn religious talk and act like a grown up already. And this is more towards Jdude, seriously, believe what you want. But keep it outside of these forums, religious threads bring nothing but unwanted trouble and closed threads on these forums.

So let's get right back on topic, Which one would win a fight Satan or Anubis. Fiction or not.

I personally would think Satan would win, being exact the opposite of god, he would have equal powers. While Anubis is only God of the underworld/dead.

Well Lee said it was OK to continue. So i did ^^

With taht said. Anubis wins cause Satan only has the power to try and talk peopl in to doing bad things and nothing more.

 

[Hitokiri]

Heh, a lot of the problem in this silly battle is establishing how powerful Satan is. Everyone seems to have a different take.

And in any case, as Onslaught said, as long as we keep it civil it's okay. It seems over time we've unofficially adopted a slightly more flexible policy on religious/political discussion. It's just a matter of playing nice... which might prove difficult on this touchy subject of course, but hey, let's try.

 

[Grega]

Heh, a lot of the problem in this silly battle is establishing how powerful Satan is. Everyone seems to have a different take.

And in any case, as Onslaught said, as long as we keep it civil it's okay. It seems over time we've unofficially adopted a slightly more flexible policy on religious/political discussion. It's just a matter of playing nice... which might prove difficult on this touchy subject of course, but hey, let's try.

Well we managed it once with the Saddam getting hanged thread. The first political thread that didnt turn into a flamewar if you reacal. Maby we can do it again

 

[Devion]

"And theology? Don't get me started. It's the scholarly equivalent of nerds arguing about if the StarTrek Enterprise could take on the StarWars Deathstar." -Ailes du Serpent

Sums this topic pretty much up.

 

[J-Dude]

@Hitokori: The Mid-1000's Catholic Church was a corrupt joke. The Pope, Cardinals, all of Catholicism atually, is totally invented. The Pope is no holier a man than the sexual predator living down the street. I'm a non-denominational Christian. I take the Bible as the main source of it all. I don't take part in the religious establishment, because it involves listening to other humans who try interprating the Bible instead of reading it and taking it in.

And also, yes, I believe the Bible is 100% truth. I believe The heavens and the Earth were made in 7 days (whatever God considers a "day", however). I do not believe in evolution, I don't think man came from apes. We are what we are, made in God's image. That's what I believe. So no, from where I stand, the bible doesn't contradict itself.

@Grega: Again, you assume I'm Catholic. I am not. I take no part in listening to the Vatican. I don't recognise his human-given status. I don't pay any mind to what other humans say about God or claim to say about him, strictly because they are human. I'd have to say 90% of Christians only believe out of fear of Hell, and that they think that good deeds give you higher status on the "nice list" into Heaven. It's all Church driven Propaganda. The Church as a community is a machine that I take no part in. My family and I understand this. Jesus read his Bible on a rock for heavens sake. I don't need a fancy building that's supposedly holy, or listen to a man who can "bless" things to worship God.

And finally, I also have a more personal reason for my faith. It's because of God's direct intervention that I even had the chance to be born.

When my father was 21, he had several old friends who he liked to hang out with. One night, they went out into a desert to shoot pellet guns at cans and brought beer. Bad combo, but that's not the point of the story.

One of the shots from my Dad's friend John rocoche'd off a rock and hit him in the gut. It hurt like Hell, but thankfully his considerable mass and the angle of the rocoche didn't do anything to him other than cause the pelet's remnants to expode when it hit his skin.

They decided to call it a night after that. My Dad was the only one sobre enough to drive home, so while his friends snored, he took the wheel. It was in the middle of nowhere around Palm Springs, so the visibility was poor. He was driving down a dirt road, with almost no visibility beyond 50 feet ahead.

It was at one point that he was driving that my Dad heard a voice shout "Jeff! STOP!" He put the breaks full-on in panic, which woke up everyone in the truck.

My Dad turned around to his surprised friends and asked who had shouted. Nobody claimed it. Nor did anyone else hear it. My Dad got out of the car to calm down and get his bearings. He walked around to the front and noticed just beyond the beams of the truck's headlights that the ground sloped downward. Walking over to investigate, he saw to utter shock, that this piece of dirt road ended in a cliff that went at least 30 feet down in a sheer drop. The bottom couldn't be seen in the black. If the voice hadn't forced my father to stop then and there, he and his friends would have almost certainly gone over the cliff, and I would never have been born. We're certain that the voice belonged to the Almighty, and not once has my faith faltered.