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Warning, this is a long interview.
Source: http://planethalflife.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Interviews.Detail&id=75Planet Half-Life: Before we start talking about They Hunger: Lost Souls, would you be so kind as to clarify the big news event "They Hunger for Nintendo DS" that PHL published on April 1st?
Black Widow Games: This April Fool's joke was originally planned by the Sven Coop team, but instead they decided to pretend World of Warcraft was buying part of their mod. So they gave us permission to use their idea refering to They Hunger instead, and everybody we asked thought an absurd but realistic fake news would be funny and wanted to participate. Pratt told us (PHL) still didn't have any joke planned for this year and really enjoyed the idea of publishing this. Our animator Nathan simply imported old They Hunger movies (provided by Kevin "Postal" and Frasierdog from Facepunch forums) into a Nintendo DS and the result was surprisingly convincing. Gooseman (creator of Counter-Strike) gave us permission to include a declaration from him to make the story a little more believable. Since it would be impossible to get a similar permission from Valve on a Saturday, the news text was careful enough to avoid saying explicitly that Valve had any participation on this, declaring instead "it seems someone at Valve ..."
Afterwards, some people in the PHL forums actually entered into the "mood" trying to find more arguments to validate the story, although they were obviously just doing it for fun. Even after Sven (from Sven Coop) posted a few messages "explaining" how the game controls work in They Hunger DS, it never seemed like anybody was really convinced.
Nintendo DS is a great device and it would be certainly nice to play They Hunger for real on it, but unfortunately this is technically impossible. The hardware simply cannot handle the degree of complexity required by the Goldsource engine, and there's not much Valve (or anybody else) can do about this. Besides, we would never sacrifice Lost Souls production even if we had other "safer" opportunities available. Players always appreciated the innovation in our game projects and this was the main reason they were successful in the past, so it makes no sense for us to stop taking risks now and loose one of our main appeals.
Planet Half-Life: Ok, then ... so what's really going on?
Black Widow Games: Although we have never announced an official release date for They Hunger: Lost Souls (TH:LS), the truth is that our internal schedule had originally planned its release for end of 2006, but then we decided to delay it to implement further improvements.
It's important to understand there's a key difference between the original They Hunger, produced as a mod, and this new commercial game. A successful mod needs to be imaginative, very entertaining and have a good quality overall, but nobody expects a free mod to be flawless. In comparison, when someone buys a commercial game, the expectations are much higher. Players demand it to be polished in nearly every detail, and game developers have an obligation to provide this since they are getting paid to do so.
However, it doesn't help either to keep working on a game forever until it's perfect. An amazing game by today's standards will look outdated if released a couple years too late, regardless of how much more work has been added to it. There's a fine line between not polishing a game enough or spending too much time to polish it. We are confident it was the right decision to postpone the release to this year to make it better, but at the same time we are fully aware we can't postpone it any longer otherwise additional improvements won't be worth it anymore. Because of all this, nobody is more interested on releasing the best game possible, as quickly as possible, as we are.
The bottom line is, Lost Souls release is close now and (hopefully) there will be no further delays this time!
Planet Half-Life: We were starting to wonder if your long silence was a good thing or a bad thing. So where would you guys say you are now in terms of the development cycle?
Black Widow Games: Development is going very well! For instance, Nathan Fearon (game animator) has just integrated motion capture animations into the game, which makes our zombies look much more convincing and thus scarier. This is one of the improvements we were talking about, the game could be released with a more limited set of hand-created animations but the improvement in realism makes it worth the extra effort.
The lack of news about this production is neither good nor bad. We have never revealed much about our free mods before release, and we are not comfortable about hyping this commercial production either. After all, we have a very small development team and so it's better if we focus all our time on finishing the game rather than doing a lot of advanced publicity. Another reason is that we want to keep the mystery of what happens in Lost Souls and not reveal too much beforehand. A multiplayer game can afford to show a lot of content in advance and still keep its appeal, but for a single player game like Lost Souls, it would spoil the surprises and thus diminish the playing experience. For all these reasons, we rarely concede interviews during the production phase, unless someone invades our secret underground lab and extracts our answers under torture, just like PHL special forces team is doing right now.
Planet Half-Life: Ha ha! All your base are belong to us!
Planet Half-Life: The gaming landscape has changed, as it usually does, quite considerably in the time since we last spoke. Being big fans ourselves of zombie-themed games, our ears naturally pricked up when late last year Turtle Rock Studios announced the development of their new game, Left4Dead (L4D). Apparently, this game will pit teams of cooperatively-playing human gamers against giant hordes of the undead. While not a whole lot of information has yet been released, what are your team's thoughts on this title? Do you feel that you will be in direct competition with them, and what do you feel will set your game apart from theirs?
Black Widow Games: We are actually glad to have Left4Dead arriving around the same time as Lost Souls, because these two major titles based on the same zombie survival theme will probably attract much more attention together than each individual release.
As a matter of fact, the zombie genre is about all these titles have in common. L4D is a fast paced, adrenaline driven, pure action game focused on cooperation, where players have to always stick together to protect each other. If a player runs low on ammo, gets lost from his friends and surrounded by zombies, it's game over for him... but that's when Lost Souls begins.
Just like the original They Hunger series, Lost Souls is a horror game, where the player is expected to feel lonely, defenseless, and completely surrounded by zombies. Of course there's also plenty of zombie killing as the player gradually finds out how to defend himself, but this is just part of the gameplay along with exploration, puzzle solving and story telling.
With L4D and Lost Souls based on opposite premises, there's no possible comparison between these titles. Real zombie fans will certainly want to have both!
Planet Half-Life: When PHL and BWG got together a little while ago to set up "The Second Encounter", you guys agreed to answer a bunch of questions directly from our readers, so let's get right down to it!
James: Will there be many friendly NPCs to meet and perhaps help (in Lost Souls)?
Black Widow Games: Yes! You will have the chance to meet quite a few NPCs, both good and evil, along the way. We were especially careful to design them as memorable as the characters from They Hunger series, although they are not the same ones.
In Lost Souls, NPCs rarely show up fighting along with you as Alyx often did in HL2 for instance. This is a horror game, thus it's important to enforce the idea that you are on your own, nobody else out there is capable of saving you. However, friendly NPCs encountered along the way will show up asking for your help or provide some important background for the main storyline.
Mark: You are one of the few mod makers who make really good horror games. The horror game genre is just as immersive as horror movies if not even more. Plus, FPS games are much easier for just about anybody to get into than RTS and RPG games. With horror and suspense stories, directors and writers have come out as masters in their field. Do you think that it's about time that They Hunger stepped forward to get noticed by more than just the gaming industry?
Black Widow Games: Actually we've already had some preliminary contacts regarding movie rights for They Hunger but we decided to place this kind of discussion on hold until Lost Souls is released. We believe it's premature to discuss other kinds of media before They Hunger succeeds as a commercial game and, thus, we prefer to focus our attention on producing the best game possible without already getting involved into other discussions to expand the "franchise".
Shane: Do you expect Lost Souls series to have more than three installments, or will this be a trilogy?
Black Widow Games: This time we have planned an entire new series of adventures for They Hunger, but instead of producing a single endless story, we are breaking it down into chronicles. Each chronicle features a complete and independent story with its own satisfying ending, although they are all somewhat related and fit together consistently. The reasoning is that most players would find it frustrating to spend hours playing a game and then not be rewarded with a proper conclusion.
Lost Souls is the first chronicle and it's composed of two episodes. The initial episode works as a "prelude" to the entire series, introducing all the story elements, a wide range of weapons, some of the key characters and all kinds of zombies. It has the player looking for shelter at an ancient monastery, where he can gradually learn basic zombie survival principles and the subtle art of killing the dead, all the while discovering some of the mystery about their origins. The following episode will introduce less conventional weapons and focus on exploring the surrounding areas, as well as revisiting the monastery.
The prelude episode will be released this year, and the next one just a few months later. In fact, we have already produced most of the second episode, but since there was too much content to be beta-tested and improved, we decided to focus our efforts to finish the initial episode earlier and release it in advance, instead of holding the game release until the entire chronicle was ready. Thus our players can start playing the game sooner and hopefully give us some feedback to help make the next episode even better.
Sgt. Jman: Is multiplayer going to be included with the final product in order to relive the old days of hunting down friends with shovels?
Black Widow Games: No, this first release is single player only. We actually have a rough concept for a more interesting multiplayer version, but this is not scheduled for any time soon. The single player adventure is the real reason people are so interested in They Hunger, thus we are investing all our resources to make it as good as possible, instead of trying to implement two versions at the same time and to risk not make either of them good enough.
Besides, Left4Dead has been doing a great job at producing a multiplayer experience involving zombies, thus we don't feel there's a need to invest on this direction right now.
William: Neil, I've followed you since the "Dark Star" days. I can say without a doubt that you keep getting better with age. My question is, what is it that motivates you?
Neil Manke: I ask myself this same question all the time... so far I have no answers.
Laurence: Most zombie games (including your originals) tend to love to include some sort of shotgun for close-range blasting, or melee weapon for smashing the crap out of the hordes. Will you focus on these types of weapons, or do you plan to have a large range for the player's arsenal?
Black Widow Games: Just like in previous adventures, the focus is on close range weapons. Our favorite weapon during beta-testing has been the sawed-off shotgun.
There are also a couple ways to blow up zombies from the distance or prepare traps for them. But in order to help you really feel immersed into the terrifying reality of the game, most of the zombie killing has to be bloody, dirty, close and personal.
James: Will there be any damage locations on zombies such as decapitations?
Black Widow Games: According to all the intensive field tests we conducted, the two most efficient methods to kill a zombie are headshot and decapitation. Thus our game provides support for both.
Mike: In Half-Life 2 you could rip zombies in half, are you adding any additional dismemberment to the game, or are we not going to see any zombies reduced to bits and pieces?
Black Widow Games: Blowing up zombie arms and heads is among the recent improvements we didn't have last year. We wanted to include all features that players expect from a zombie story, and for those that don't like playing games with blood and gore, we are planning to provide an option to disable it in the final version.
Shane: Will Lost Souls have a wide range of creatures like the many different kinds seen in the original trilogy (Zorks, skeletons, etc.)?
Black Widow Games: Yes, although not exactly the same ones from the original series. Besides different kinds of zombies at varying degrees of decay (and thus different speed and behavior), a few other creatures are also affected by the zombie plague. You will certainly have a few surprises.
Psychotiker: Will there be any awesome scripted sequences in They Hunger: Lost Souls in the same style as Half-Life 2 or Half-Life 2: Episode One?
Black Widow Games: Ulisses Mello (programmer) has developed an entire new scripting system for the game, that can be used to pre-calculate physics for extremely complex scenes that would be impractical to have in-game otherwise. This is somewhat similar to the "cinematic physics" used in the farmhouse explosion presented in Half-Life 2: Episode Two trailer, although our method uses physics directly from the Source engine to generate these scenes. This technique makes us capable of producing sequences more realistic than previous games.
Jake: Are there new game play elements that are radically different from the Half-Life: They Hunger series?
Black Widow Games: They Hunger: Lost Souls is completely different from the classic adventures. Instead of simply producing a remake with better graphics, we have developed a brand new game, presenting new locations, weapons, situations, story, characters and enemies. Additionally, this time we have a far superior technology and could afford to dedicate much more time and resources, resulting in a much better game. Except for a somewhat similar game style from the original series, there's not much comparison between them.
Sgt. Jman: When creating a retail project, rather than a mod, is it hard working with people all over the world, instead of an office?
Black Widow Games: Producing a commercial game takes a humongous effort, regardless of working at the same office or distributed across the world. The fact we work as a virtual independent company is not really an issue here.
Since 1997, we have produced about 25 map packs and mods for Quake and Half-Life, most of them contracted as promotional material for the marketing campaigns of a TV series, game magazine, web news site, and a theatrical movie. Based on the experience we accumulated working far apart for about a decade, and taking now advantage of modern facilities such as free teleconferences over the Internet, coordinating an international team is actually easy. The main challenge resides on managing the complexity and large amount of work involved on producing a 3D game, regardless of physical locations.
Besides, working as a virtual company has some advantages in terms of flexibility. Our operational costs are much lower than others, which allow us to work as a fully independent company that does not depend on outside investors. We can also employ great talents that live far away from the main game development markets, and thus would not fit on a traditional company model.
Shane: In game, will there be ANY sort of references to the original trilogy (such as Easter eggs, or even tidbits)?
Black Widow Games: Yes! Although Lost Souls story is completely independent from the classic series, it includes countless tributes to it. Each one of these references is naturally integrated into the game, so people that never played the trilogy won't be scratching their heads or feeling like someone that didn't catch a joke. But our old time fans will probably give a smile whenever they recognize one of these. For instance, the original intro showcasing the radio transmission as a car driving through the country will be there again, but this time it will be much more exciting, with the player really immersed into the scene.
Daniel: Were you surprised at the positive reaction to the original They Hunger series, and can Lost Souls achieve the same?
Black Widow Games: Yes and yes! At the time we started producing it, we had already received a very positive reaction to our previous Half-Life mod USS Darkstar (which received rave reviews and was selected for the first Valve Mod Expo), but the level of popularity reached by They Hunger series exceeded all our expectations.
The zombie theme was not even popular at the time, which gave us the opportunity to become one of the pioneers in this genre. According to the original series, humans recently transformed into zombies keep part of their higher brain functions and almost the same physical agility, while reanimated rotten corpses "usually" move in a manner similar to classic zombie movies. As a consequence, They Hunger presented running zombies about two years before "28 Days Later" introduced this notion in the movies, and smart zombies about five years before George Romero featured them in "Land of the Dead". Innovative ideas ahead of its time should probably help to explain why They Hunger acquired so much success.
Now we would not have invested over 2 years of our lives to produce Lost Souls if we just wanted to take advantage of They Hunger popularity ("milking the cow" as they say). There would be certainly easier ways to do it. Our motivation has always been to produce a new series that would largely surpass the original, and we are fairly confident that our fans will love the final result.
MF9000: What is your next challenge after you're done with the current project?
Black Widow Games: Immediately after releasing this initial episode, our next priority is to finish the following episode ASAP. Most of it is already done anyway, since we needed most level designs to ensure the chronicle details would fit together properly, and much of the content we developed for the first episode applies to this one also. Since there isn't a lot to be finished, it simply would make no sense to consider otherwise.
Planet Half-Life: Good job, guys! Ok, a couple more questions from us.
Planet Half-Life: Do you think Valve has the right idea with Steam as far as its ability to deliver games to the masses from smaller developers such as yourselves? Is there anything you would change about the system?
Black Widow Games: Steam is a great alternative for game distribution, and even the largest game publishers are now starting to provide similar solutions. For small developers, it's a commercial solution that allows them to remain independent without having to rely on publishers and thus risk loosing creative control over their products. For players, it means they can get commercial games for a more accessible price, without having to pay extra to cover costs like CD production, physical distribution, marketing or logistics.
Some people criticize Steam claiming that Valve is trying to commercialize mods that would be otherwise available for free. However, if someone takes the time to properly evaluate the commercial versions of Counter-Strike, Day of Defeat, and Garry's Mod, it should be evident these are much more sophisticated than the free mods that originated them. Their sales financed improvements that would never be feasible otherwise.
Planet Half-Life: How on Earth do you create such realistic-looking skins? I mean, you guys are the cream of the crop as far as talent goes, but I'm sure there are some mod developers out there who would kill to be able to create creature/human models as well as you guys do. Are there any tricks or specific methods that help you achieve the realism you attain, or is it all elbow grease and trial/error?
Black Widow Games: The zombie skins featured in our previous screenshots were created by Teddy Bergsman (texture artist) applying techniques he co-developed with a PhD teacher from Chalmers University. The most recent faces are being created by Magnus Bernek?rr, Kelly Maynard and Wojtek Starak (modelers) and they look equally scary.
Planet Half-Life: Being commercial developers, you have complete access to the source code and thus much more freedom to do what you will with the engine, but everything has its limits. Are there any limitations to the Source engine that you are finding as a major obstacle to any of your goals?
Black Widow Games: Obviously some features are harder to implement than others, but we never found any obstacles we could not overcome.
An important lesson we learned from our background as mod developers is to always design the game taking into account the engine limitations since the beginning. This way, we can better explore the stronger advantages of the underlying technology and plan in advance to avoid its limitations. This is much safer than taking the risk of hitting later some unsolvable problem and getting forced to redo a lot of work.
Planet Half-Life: Once again, thank you for taking the time to talk to us!
Black Widow Games: You are welcome!
