Legal Rights

[SailorAlea]

So... you basically had no interest in the project whatsoever, knew a minimum about it, and based your opinion entirely from other mods/projects in general. Odd, that is. Had you actually known a bit about the project you would have known that ZEQ2 was unlike any mod/game in creation and as a result not comparable. Our goals stemmed far FAR deeper than merely DBZ-based aspects.

As I said, I visited the site occasionally. I saw what I saw. Aside from that rather egotistical statement that "ZEQ2 was unlike any mod/game" being both subjective and irrelevant--I never questioned your 'goals.' I stated specifically, several times that I wasn't accusing or "bashing" ZEQ2 of anything--I was talking about the probability of your (and any other DBZ-based modification) having received legal requests for cessation by Funimation.

But hey, I guess you have complete rights to your own opinions and all. No offense intended, but it would probably be beneficial if you kept your thoughts to yourself if they don't effect you in some fashion though. It's one thing to dislike something, but it's an entirely different concept to openly address that contempt.

Regardless of intent and your wishes, I have the right to participate in any discussion offered on our forums. I didn't dislike or like ZEQ2.

Let's hypothesize a similar situation. We shall assume you don't like a certain restaraunt because you do not enjoy fish. Would you honestly walk in and declare to the customers that they shouldn't eat here because you do not enjoy the products? I suppose you could. Thinking logically though, it would probably agitate the situation causing both issues with the management and customers.

If it would clearly benefit noone, has no real impact on you, and cause more issues than it could potentially help, why would you honestly want to propagate hatred?

Is this a joke? This makes no sense. Did I waltz into your "restaurant" (or forum) and declare how "people shouldn't like it"? I have done absolutely nothing to "propagata hatred." I'm sorry if you wish to avoid scrutiny--if you really did wish it, there would be a more highly defined reason on your main site, something not quite so contrived sounding.

Once the ball is rolling and a game/mod is in mass distribution, it becomes quite a bit more difficult to actually stop the momentum. I assume by attacking a threatening game, such as ZEQ2, early on while in development, such issues of copies floating around anonymously could be avoided.

I already addressed this. What does a company like Funimation, who doesn't make games, only lends their license to other companies to do so, have to gain from stopping something that would probably increase their revenue, if anything?

Assuming they had the intention of stopping a mod--would they be likely to target an already established one like DMZ and ESF, or nip them in the bud? As I said previously, stopping mods like ESF would prevent further development, leading even more quickly to the inevitable obscurity of the game. In the case of ZEQ2, prevent it from potentially detracting from potential profit (again, which is impractical). Funimation has nothing to gain, aside from enforcing principle (which they have never been known to do).

Having such a confidence in your own words, surely you realize that Funimation probably outsources it's lawyers and, even in the event of a local legal department on-site, communication for legal affairs would probably be at a minimum. Funimation basically hires people to look out for it's intellectual property and leaves things at that.

Asking another department why it handled a certain legal affair a certain way would probably be fruitless. It's the equivalent of asking a police officer why he created a certain law. He didn't make the laws, he merely enforces those that were.

They probably do. But there's no way to know. In any case, even in that case, there's always a subjective decision at the point of the intellectual property holder whether or not to enforce the finding of an independent firm. Aside from Bid For Power's claim that Funimation shut them down (widely believed to be yet another 'false allegation of legality') there haven't been any other incidents that I (nor anyone I talk to) have heard of.

The fact that ESF has yet to recieve a C&D is partly because of it's engine attachments. From what I hear, Half-life has seperate licensing obligations to Steam as well as Valve. There are additional complications involved with handling a Cease & Desist in that regard.

This is purely speculation. Do you really think the fact that ESF is on Steam would impede Funimation from exercising their rights as license-holder in court?

Additionally, Funimation might not feel as much of a threat from ESF as it does ZEQ2. While ESF tramples any released DBZ game in terms of gameplay and mechanics, it does not do so in terms of graphical capability (due to the engine's limitations). Although I think some of us agree that gameplay and mechanics are primary factors in a game, the current market seems to say otherwise in favor of graphics being the favorite. ZEQ2 itself was probably deemed a threat to the current commercial DBZ games that are in development and released -- thus causing an effect on profits.

This is also purely speculative, and entirely void of fact.

Like I said, I have no personal interest in ZEQ2--I did visit the website and reported upon what I saw here. I have no grudge against you or your team. I have merely commented upon a vague and suspect reason for abandoning the project.

Like I said immediately prior to your post, my opinion on the subject has been voiced. I have no desire to continue the discussion, but I will respond if necessary.

 

[|Overlord|]

For controversial reasons, if you are now, or ever once were, in any way affiliated with FUNimation or any other related group you CANNOT enter this web site, or any of it's related features, including but not limited to, FTP, HTTP, eMail, etc.. If you enter this site in violation of the above terms you are in violation of code 431.322.12 of the Internet Privacy Act signed by President Bill Clinton in 1995 and therefore CANNOT threaten our ISP(s) or any person(s) or company storing these files, and cannot prosecute any person(s) affiliated with this page, including but not limited to family, friends or individuals who maintain or enter this web site.
This website and its fourm has content that may be not suitable for persons under the age of 13. They may contain violent content, mild or strong language, and/or suggestive themes.
The DMZ Team and Network Admins reserve the right to edit delete and/or add any information they see fit, to anything posted on forums. The DMZ team and Network Admins Reserve the right to ban anyone they see fit, under there site. This shall include any and all users who enter this site.

I realyl don't udnerstand why Funi is able or has shutdown ZEQ2 when DMZ is apparently protected by the Internet Privacy act.

 

[Optimus Prime]

How many people here believe that it is legal for Funimation to stop a small group of people from making pc game modification of DBZ.

And if you do believe it's legal, then how come they haven't stop ESF?

Basically what you're asking is, "is it legal for a corporation to protect their intellectual property and copyrights?"

Short answer. Yes.

I realyl don't udnerstand why Funi is able or has shutdown ZEQ2 when DMZ is apparently protected by the Internet Privacy act.

Short answer. That disclaimer is BS.

 

[Zeth]

As I said, I visited the site occasionally. I saw what I saw.

While this may be entirely true, would it really be wise to ignore what others have plainly spoken about the status of updates in the absense of your visits?

Aside from that rather egotistical statement that "ZEQ2 was unlike any mod/game" being both subjective and irrelevant--I never questioned your 'goals.'

Egotistical? Only by your own perceptions, I assure you. My intent was merely to to clarify that our goals and project in general were not similar nor governed by similar concepts of methodology that other projects have adopted. I was in no way stressing a level of arrogance or belittling anyone in any way. Subjective? Not at all. It was just based on logical comparisons of existing projects to our own.

I stated specifically, several times that I wasn't accusing or "bashing" ZEQ2 of anything--I was talking about the probability of your (and any other DBZ-based modification) having received legal requests for cessation by Funimation.

I had made no such accusations that you were bashing the project. I was simply responding in an annalytical manner of the situation as well.

Regardless of intent and your wishes, I have the right to participate in any discussion offered on our forums. I didn't dislike or like ZEQ2.

Naturally -- everyone is entitled to the discussion. It just seemed rather peculiar to me that you would have such a passionate regard as far as to play sleuth to a project you scarcely followed.

Is this a joke? This makes no sense. Did I waltz into your "restaurant" (or forum) and declare how "people shouldn't like it"? I have done absolutely nothing to "propagata hatred." I'm sorry if you wish to avoid scrutiny--if you really did wish it, there would be a more highly defined reason on your main site, something not quite so contrived sounding.

Of course not. My associations were merely for effect. Converged to a more "simplified" and "realistic" hypothetical scenerio, it would be as if you were having a discussion about said restaraunt with a large group of people. Would you honestly make a statement or object if they said the place was the greatest on earth? Ponder if you will. It's one thing to say you dislike the restaraunt. It's another to go in to an in-depth set of reasons why you believe the restaurant may be at fault in some way. Reasons, have mind you, that are based on opinions. You could potentially alter what certain people discussing may think about the restaurant in a negative fashion BASED on pure speculation. That, my friend, is slander.

I already addressed this. What does a company like Funimation, who doesn't make games, only lends their license to other companies to do so, have to gain from stopping something that would probably increase their revenue, if anything?

They prevent potential loss of profits, of course. A free PC standalone DBZ game that requires nothing is a very large risk in that regard. Although it's NOT in their best interests to stop community-based projects, they DO have the legal rights to even shut down a simple fan-art website (although that would serve little purpose).

Aside from Bid For Power's claim that Funimation shut them down (widely believed to be yet another 'false allegation of legality') there haven't been any other incidents that I (nor anyone I talk to) have heard of.

What about DBQ? As far as non-DBZ goes, SMDF was contacted by Marvel with a Cease & Desist DESPITE that they had actually gotten approval from one of it's subsidary partners. C&D's do actually happen and in the end, there is little that can be done aside from compliance.

This is purely speculation. Do you really think the fact that ESF is on Steam would impede Funimation from exercising their rights as license-holder in court?

By that reason soley? Of course not. I'm just pointing out some possible reasoning to the situation. ESF is available on a level to millions. Even with a Cease & Desist, little would change as the game would still be massively available and playable.

This is also purely speculative, and entirely void of fact.

Of course it is. It seems we are both at a standstill of tossing speculative remarks back and forth then. I'm stating probability based on information I have just as you are.

Like I said, I have no personal interest in ZEQ2--I did visit the website and reported upon what I saw here. I have no grudge against you or your team. I have merely commented upon a vague and suspect reason for abandoning the project.

Understood. Mutually, I see you in the same regard. It just dumbfounded me as to the reasoning behind your suspicions and remarks after admitting not knowing fully about the project itself.

Like I said immediately prior to your post, my opinion on the subject has been voiced. I have no desire to continue the discussion, but I will respond if necessary.

That is entirely up to you.

 

[HaLLiS]

Im sorry to hear about the mods closure Zeth Mdave and SV, you had the makings for the greatest dbz mod ever imo . Best wishes to the Zeq2 team

 

[THA TYRANT]

Why would all these other mods be getting shut down and not ESF?? Was ZEQ2 gaining any profit? Why would they think ZEQ2 would have any sort of effect on DBZ sales? I don't remember ZEQ2 being a big hype, I've never heard ZEQ2 being game of the week or something like that... I think all these mods that claim to have received letters from Funimation are just using that as an excuse to shut down their mods for lack of a good CODER LOLOLOLOL thank god for harSens and PCJoe huh!!! LOLOL but who knows right?

 

[Killer22]

Why would all these other mods be getting shut down and not ESF?? Was ZEQ2 gaining any profit? Why would they think ZEQ2 would have any sort of effect on DBZ sales? I don't remember ZEQ2 being a big hype, I've never heard ZEQ2 being game of the week or something like that... I think all these mods that claim to have received letters from Funimation are just using that as an excuse to shut down their mods for lack of a good CODER LOLOLOLOL thank god for harSens and PCJoe huh!!! LOLOL but who knows right?

When you don't know ****, don't talk ****.

 

[Pain]

When you don't know ****, don't talk ****.

Let's drop it down a few notches, buddy.

I can see things are beginning to get heated. It also seems that most of the ZEQ2 people have come out of the woodwork to defend their project, which is understandable. That being said, let's try to avoid a community war. I won't hesitate to warn anyone for flaming, and I won't hesitate to close the thread if I feel things are getting out of hand.

Zeth, I noticed you quoted me amongst some of Alea's quotes. I happen to agree with pretty much all of Alea's points. That being so, I don't think I really have to illustrate why I feel it's obvious, she's done a very good job of that already. Could I be wrong? Sure.

 

[Jesus]

pain is right, people need to calm down.

this is what a C&D letter looks like btw (having recieved one myself):

i love how their legal department cant spell for ****...

 

[PiXel]

pain is right, people need to calm down.

this is what a C&D letter looks like btw (having recieved one myself):

i love how their legal department cant spell for ****...

ouw lovly square enix, how i do love square enix -_- for creating a ****n pwng game and closing all to the game related mods, ouw lovly square enix.

 

[imported_MDave]

We didn't get a C&D.

We got this instead.

 

[PiXel]

nice, this you will get when you ask for permanission at aquare enix -_-

 

[Jesus]

MDave, i wasnt trying to say you didnt get one mate =]

 

[imported_MDave]

I know, just saying what we had recieved instead.

Seems people are quick to think other people appear hostile, when they're intentions are not

 

[Grega]

Personaly i think Funny blew it bigtime. I think they would be better off if they simply made a deal.

Like Valve did with CS.

Im shure Funi could easily make an engine that suports the same stuff as Q3. And than buy the mod ^^

That way they would also get to the PC market.

Shows how smart they reaaly are ^^

Sadly ZEQ had to go. But im eager to see what the team will cook up

 

[Super Veggeto]

Why would all these other mods be getting shut down and not ESF?? Was ZEQ2 gaining any profit? Why would they think ZEQ2 would have any sort of effect on DBZ sales? I don't remember ZEQ2 being a big hype, I've never heard ZEQ2 being game of the week or something like that... I think all these mods that claim to have received letters from Funimation are just using that as an excuse to shut down their mods for lack of a good CODER LOLOLOLOL thank god for harSens and PCJoe huh!!! LOLOL but who knows right?

This has been pointed out several times, read up.
You definatly have no idea what you are talking about, since you have COMPLETLY no idea who our coder is.
Which shows you didnt even follow ZEQ2.

I dont think you have a word in this.

 

[-Nataku-]

if you didint Recived a C&D letter, you dont need to ceese the project right?
just remove the pics, but go on with the mod...
They are not telling you to ceese the mod , only to remove the pics, so do so..
and dont stop developing zeq..
is there a way you guys can work underground? you worked for the past 6 months and no stupid Funi knew about you , eint that right? just dont die xD do something, show your patriotism xD I bet you can think something up, Trick that retarded funi somehow. Did you tried to ask their legal department why they are ceesing your mod while other mods are still runing? maybe they are mada fu king jelous ( i bet they are ). but Funi is realy retarded same as sqaure enix.

 

[Zeth]

Zeth, I noticed you quoted me amongst some of Alea's quotes. I happen to agree with pretty much all of Alea's points. That being so, I don't think I really have to illustrate why I feel it's obvious, she's done a very good job of that already. Could I be wrong? Sure.

Your call, I guess. I wasn't attempting to target anyone in specific by selecting your portion as a quote. I just don't see this overwhelming evidence that seems to have made a few people quite sure of the situation. I'm always open for a debate. Strangely from what has been presented thus far, everything seems purely circumstantial and reliant on factors that seem to be not present.

if you didint Recived a C&D letter, you dont need to ceese the project right?

There were several followup emails between our host's legal members and Funimation with dreamhost serving as intermediary for communication. It all boiled down to us either striking up a legal case in defense or being in complicance to remove all infringing content currently and potentially on the project. From later responses it became clear that that Funimation's legal department had been and would continue to monitor the project to assure compliance to copyright laws.

While we actually had no Cease & Desist in a raw form, we were able to maintain communication and determine inevitable legal complications -- which is why I worded the the message on the site as so "due to foreshadowed legal..."

Did you tried to ask their legal department why they are ceesing your mod while other mods are still runing?

Our chances of approval are slim to none. Glancing over at the Square response, I think one could expect the same from Funimation. Additionally, we are a threat to their commercial line of games. As far as profits go, it just wouldn't be wise for them to let a free project continue. Depending on what they do know about us, it could get worse too. If we get red-lighted by their legal departments, we could be forced to sign legal papers preventing us from ever doing anything with even within a vague association to their intellectual property's.

 

[Grega]

But why cant you sell them the game.

Like CS did with Valve.

I mean if they are smart you guys can make a contract that you can use the code freely. But ZEQ gets released under funis overwiew. From what i know they are good enough to make an engine thats similar enough to quake that it would suport ZEQ with out porting.

And since you would be the sellers you also make the contract. They just accept or decline. Either way. You loose nothing.

If they accept you finish it and give it to them. If they decline you simply do what youd do with a C&D order placed. Basicly you cant loose. Since they would be signing your contract ^^

In it you can also state that the code stays in your hands for the use in your other projects if you decide to do so. etc.

You know what i mean. But again its your call.

 

[MC]

But why cant you sell them the game.

Like CS did with Valve.

Valve is more friendly to their community, not to mention a lot of the mods we see for Half-Life were developed in-house at Valve Software. You could also ask Valve for assistance with your mods if you wanted to, and they will help you out in anyway they can.

You could buy rights for the development of the mod even though it would cost a lot of money, not to mention you will have to charge for the mod which would in turn cause [insert company here] to go after you for distributing the mod for a fee even though you have the rights from the other company. So technically you need a lot of money to pull it off, not to mention you would need to buy the game engine in which none of [insert company here] content will be included, just the foundation (source, graphics, etcetera).

If I'm wrong with anything I said, please correct me, I will admit that I do not completely understand a lot of what is being said, and for that I greatly apologize.